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  1. #1
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    Default What is the goal in Afghanistan ?

    and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?
    Doesn't sound much like a 'surge.' Seems according to Tillerson they'll consider a draw a win of sorts.

    Either go big or leave, the goal in staying should be to drive the Taliban to extinction.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Doesn't sound much like a 'surge.' Seems according to Tillerson they'll consider a draw a win of sorts.

    Either go big or leave, the goal in staying should be to drive the Taliban to extinction.
    Sounds like a good goal. Two presidents have failed to achieve "victory" there. As did the British Empire and soviet empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Sounds like a good goal. Two presidents have failed to achieve "victory" there. As did the British Empire and soviet empire
    In my opinion Obama picked the wrong war to walk away from. Can't see the logic in what seems to be going on. Win or just get out.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Where is Dr zawahiri ? Is it still the goal to kill him and other leaders?

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    If history is any indication, there is no victory.


    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás


    Make no mistake, folks, throughout history there have been many an example of the futility of pursuing "victory" in that part of the world.
    "I am allergic to piety, it makes me break out in rash judgements." - Penn Jillette
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with a lot of pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered." - Robert G. Ingersoll

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmick View Post
    If history is any indication, there is no victory.


    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás


    Make no mistake, folks, throughout history there have been many an example of the futility of pursuing "victory" in that part of the world.
    Why haven't three presidents understood that ?

    what are other motives

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Why haven't three presidents understood that ?

    what are other motives

    Hubris.
    "I am allergic to piety, it makes me break out in rash judgements." - Penn Jillette
    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with a lot of pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
    "The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered." - Robert G. Ingersoll

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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmick View Post
    Hubris.
    If we don't know what the goal is, how do we know whether or not we are successful ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    If we don't know what the goal is, how do we know whether or not we are successful ?
    The "goal" was to get bin Laden. The Taliban said no, we went after him.

    Then it was to get rid of the Taliban for harboring bin Laden. Bin Laden's dead. What's left is another Vietnam, the US trying to "bring democracy" to a people that could care less. They're more worried about their poppy crop and don't care WHO claims to be in charge.

    The problem with offering "freedom and democracy" is they have to choose freedom and democracy when they have no notion of what it is.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    The "goal" was to get bin Laden. The Taliban said no, we went after him.

    Then it was to get rid of the Taliban for harboring bin Laden. Bin Laden's dead. What's left is another Vietnam, the US trying to "bring democracy" to a people that could care less. They're more worried about their poppy crop and don't care WHO claims to be in charge.

    The problem with offering "freedom and democracy" is they have to choose freedom and democracy when they have no notion of what it is.
    I agree re freedom and democracy. I think with regard to Iraq, we had 3 choices. Keep Saddam, remove Saddam and put another dictator in power or put democracy in place and leave troops there 100 years. All the options listed are better than what we did.

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    But is freedom and democracy the goal in Afghanistan ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    But is freedom and democracy the goal in Afghanistan ?
    It would be a futile goal. Their culture is one of tribalism and there's not one hint that they want change regarding that.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    It would be a futile goal. Their culture is one of tribalism and there's not one hint that they want change regarding that.
    Agreed. Borderline or not so borderline failed state.

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    From what I hear they don't want to leave another vacuum and have the taliban regroup and build terrorist training camps again. But the way I see, that could be best thing they could possibly do. Leave, let the terrorists all group into a huge new camp, and then drop a freakin' MOAB on them. What better way to kill terrorists than that? Just have them all get in one place FOR YOU, then KILL THEM.

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