Getting To The Point of Being ASHAMED for Serving in the AF...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Tom, can you hang in there a little longer with your son? I think he will calm down at some point. New Christians can get very excited and push too hard.

As for the theology debate, my sincere belief and understanding can be summed up by the way Jesus handled the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned.

1. He taught us not to judge others' sin, because we are all sinners ourselves
2. And the part that liberal Christians always conveniently leave out- after all was done, Jesus commanded the woman to "Go and sin no more". Clearly Jesus himself expects us to repent of our sin-which by definition includes not doing it anymore.

He's far more than just became a Christian, Abbey, he is absolutely CONSUMED with it, all day, every day, and has gotten into the fringe stuff too, like the YEC crowd, (young earth creationist), that believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and that God literally created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. They take every word in the Bible literally, period, and there is no wiggle room. I think it's way, waaaay overboard, just overkill, borderline cultist.

But we talk just about every day, and to keep the peace we try for the most part to just stay away from it, because it usually leads into a huge, uncomfortable debate.

I hope he does wake up someday and wonder, why did I go that far? Why did I believe this or that? What was I thinking... because I don't believe for one second that that level of immersion and in some cases suspending your logic brain and believing only what you cherry pick, is the only way for a Christian to get into heaven.

[darin]

Tom, can you hang in there a little longer with your son? I think he will calm down at some point. New Christians can get very excited and push too hard.

As for the theology debate, my sincere belief and understanding can be summed up by the way Jesus handled the woman caught in adultery who was about to be stoned.

1. He taught us not to judge others' sin, because we are all sinners ourselves
2. And the part that liberal Christians always conveniently leave out- after all was done, Jesus commanded the woman to "Go and sin no more". Clearly Jesus himself expects us to repent of our sin-which by definition includes not doing it anymore.

I appreciate that - but I think he's more concerned with the trouble it will cause her than anything - and it doesn't address teh fact after/at crucifixion, christ liberated those who were held-captive in hell. Means the 'sinners' who are/were/will be in hell were liberated then.

#scifi #timelinestuff

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I appreciate that - but I think he's more concerned with the trouble it will cause her than anything - and it doesn't address teh fact after/at crucifixion, christ liberated those who were held-captive in hell. Means the 'sinners' who are/were/will be in hell were liberated then.

#scifi #timelinestuff

Could you quote me that in the Bible?

[darin]

Could you quote me that in the Bible?

Sure.

1 Peter 3:18-20 New International Version (NIV)

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water...

The Message:
19-22 He went and proclaimed God’s salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgment because they wouldn’t listen. You know, even though God waited patiently all the days that Noah built his ship, only a few were saved then, eight to be exact—saved from the water by the water. The waters of baptism do that for you, not by washing away dirt from your skin but by presenting you through Jesus’ resurrection before God with a clear conscience. Jesus has the last word on everything and everyone, from angels to armies. He’s standing right alongside God, and what he says goes.

Mounce:

in which also he went and proclaimed to the spirits in Prison/
en hos kai kēryssō poreuō kēryssō ho spirits pneuma en phylakē

Because God is not bound by Time - because measured time that exists for us cannot exist the same way for god, in His realm, it stands to reason that to whomever Christ preached - those imprisoned - that was everyone from all of time back and beyond. Because for God - time doesn't wait. He's not 'waiting up there' for 2000 years to return. Christ is there now (outside this time stream) at judgment and salvation. He's already there throwing hell and death into all-consuming fire so hell and death is no more.



But that's just my take on it. Frankly I find it impossible for God to endlessly and forever torture every single soul he doesn't like, simply as punishment for what they did or didn't do while they were alive/human. No parent would do that. In fact, the modern teaching of hell originated Roman and Greeks etc, who used 'everlasting punishment' as a threat to keep people in fear.

I think this guy gets it right. Its unpopular because it removes power from Churches and gives God the ability to show grace. Always.



And then there's this.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
In the greek. All = the whole, entire,. So - For as Adam brought death to the entire - the whole of mankind, in christ the whole of, the entirety of mankind shall be made alive. There is no Death anymore. No hell. No eternal punishment. Mostly or partly because to beings outside of time, eternity doesn't matter - because it both has never happened and always happens. it's a measurement of something (time) that does not exist to God.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Sure.

Because God is not bound by Time - because measured time that exists for us cannot exist the same way for god, in His realm, it stands to reason that to whomever Christ preached - those imprisoned - that was everyone from all of time back and beyond. Because for God - time doesn't wait. He's not 'waiting up there' for 2000 years to return. Christ is there now (outside this time stream) at judgment and salvation. He's already there throwing hell and death into all-consuming fire so hell and death is no more.



But that's just my take on it. Frankly I find it impossible for God to endlessly and forever torture every single soul he doesn't like, simply as punishment for what they did or didn't do while they were alive/human. No parent would do that. In fact, the modern teaching of hell originated Roman and Greeks etc, who used 'everlasting punishment' as a threat to keep people in fear.

I think this guy gets it right. Its unpopular because it removes power from Churches and gives God the ability to show grace. Always.

Thanks... OK... I see that Christ liberated 20 from hell, but I don't get how that translates to now every single person never has to worry about going to hell. Christ also said that "the way unto the father is through me, so if you profess with your mouth that you think God is the magic man in the sky and ridicule Christianity as a non believer, I don't believe you're going to heaven, but to add to that, the discussion of God/Christ/The Holy Spirit as being all one and the same, the Trinity, is an interesting conversation, especially when the Bible quotes God speaking of Jesus as his son, and quotes Jesus speaking of God as father in heaven. Why is that if they're one and the same?

But I have to agree with you on one point, and that is I don't believe the ONLY way into heaven is to be an absolute 24/7, Bible studying, word spreading, consumed zealot. God created us, he knows how we live and what we are. If he created us to be that way, then why make strict rules about the only way to live that really aren't in step with what we are as they only way to get to heaven? There's somewhere in Revelations that says, basically, that those who shall cry out to the Lord in the end shall be saved, and I believe that. I believe God is far more loving, as you've tried to make the point, than people say. Purported Christians seem to love to point out that to get to heaven there's very strict procedures to follow... well, I don't think so. In fact, I believe the Lord has been active in my life and not only saved my life a time or two, but has shown me miracles. Now why would he do that if he was going to throw me into the burning pit of hell for eternity? Why would he have wasted his time?

I know my two paragraphs might seem a little contradictory, but, that's how confusing some of this can be to me.

[darin]

Thanks... OK... I see that Christ liberated 20 from hell, but I don't get how that translates to now every single person never has to worry about going to hell. Christ also said that "the way unto the father is through me, so if you profess with your mouth that you think God is the magic man in the sky and ridicule Christianity as a non believer, I don't believe you're going to heaven, but to add to that, the discussion of God/Christ/The Holy Spirit as being all one and the same, the Trinity, is an interesting conversation, especially when the Bible quotes God speaking of Jesus as his son, and quotes Jesus speaking of God as father in heaven. Why is that if they're one and the same?

But I have to agree with you on one point, and that is I don't believe the ONLY way into heaven is to be an absolute 24/7, Bible studying, word spreading, consumed zealot. God created us, he knows how we live and what we are. If he created us to be that way, then why make strict rules about the only way to live that really aren't in step with what we are as they only way to get to heaven? There's somewhere in Revelations that says, basically, that those who shall cry out to the Lord in the end shall be saved, and I believe that. I believe God is far more loving, as you've tried to make the point, than people say. Purported Christians seem to love to point out that to get to heaven there's very strict procedures to follow... well, I don't think so. In fact, I believe the Lord has been active in my life and not only saved my life a time or two, but has shown me miracles. Now why would he do that if he was going to throw me into the burning pit of hell for eternity? Why would he have wasted his time?

I know my two paragraphs might seem a little contradictory, but, that's how confusing some of this can be to me.

Liberated 20? I don't see that anywhere. But Christ proved - even if he saved only 20 - that confession can happen after death...because "EVERY knee will bow and confess..." righto?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Liberated 20? I don't see that anywhere. But Christ proved - even if he saved only 20 - that confession can happen after death...because "EVERY knee will bow and confess..." righto?

Whoops... sorry... it was the sentence number...