Navy files homicide charges against commanders of 2 ships in deadly crashes

[Gunny]

Two Navy commanders face negligent homicide charges related to the deadly crashes of two ships off Asia last year, the Navy announced Tuesday.
Former Cmdr. Bryce Benson of the USS Fitzgerald and former Cmdr. Alfredo J. Sanchez of the USS John S. McCain are among those charged, according to USNI News. Additionally, two lieutenants and one lieutenant junior grade of the Fitzgerald also face charges, the Navy said.
Among the charges are dereliction of duty, hazarding a vessel and negligent homicide.
A Chief Petty Officer on the McCain also was charged with dereliction of duty. And administrative actions -- including non-judicial punishment -- will be taken for members of both crews, the Navy said.

cont ... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/16...s.htmlI'll let the Navy guys comment on this since I just was along for the ride.

Not to make light (but I'm going to) I can't help but notice one of the ships was the USS John McCain. Looks like his name doesn't limit itself to trainwrecks in Congress.

[aboutime]

This is how the navy handles their own CYA. The lack of training quals before the ships were deployed...came from Washington, in the Pentagon. They blamed finances at first.

Truth is. During the Obama administration. When he was busy firing Flag Officers (over 500). The navy, and the other branches began to suffer like they did during the CLINTON years, when cutbacks, and Downsizing were the craze. I know, and you should too Gunny.

The first things that suffer are training. Then the complacency of all the people who loved Obama's idea of Political Correctness...taking away the Discipline, and trading it for BEING FRIENDS who don't Offend, or Insult those Snowflake Sailors who didn't know...THEY WERE GONNA HAVE TO WORK, or GO TO SEA, and SWAB FLOORS since the maid, and the butler (Mom and Dad) didn't make them do it at home.

I blame it all on OBAMA and CONGRESS for shortchanging the military to support The Enemy.

[Gunny]

This is how the navy handles their own CYA. The lack of training quals before the ships were deployed...came from Washington, in the Pentagon. They blamed finances at first.

Truth is. During the Obama administration. When he was busy firing Flag Officers (over 500). The navy, and the other branches began to suffer like they did during the CLINTON years, when cutbacks, and Downsizing were the craze. I know, and you should too Gunny.

The first things that suffer are training. Then the complacency of all the people who loved Obama's idea of Political Correctness...taking away the Discipline, and trading it for BEING FRIENDS who don't Offend, or Insult those Snowflake Sailors who didn't know...THEY WERE GONNA HAVE TO WORK, or GO TO SEA, and SWAB FLOORS since the maid, and the butler (Mom and Dad) didn't make them do it at home.

I blame it all on OBAMA and CONGRESS for shortchanging the military to support The Enemy.

I DEFINITELY remember the impact Clinton had on us. Manpower shortage plus increased OpTempo noticeably changed our time between deployable unit. It went from maybe a few years break between them to negligible.

I recall on one deployment we had 4 Harriers and at any one time 4 were operational. Two spent the float in the hangar deck. The cutback in training was to shift the funds to actual operations. And yeah, a LOT more mistakes.

[Elessar]

I DEFINITELY remember the impact Clinton had on us. Manpower shortage plus increased OpTempo noticeably changed our time between deployable unit. It went from maybe a few years break between them to negligible.

I recall on one deployment we had 4 Harriers and at any one time 4 were operational. Two spent the float in the hangar deck. The cutback in training was to shift the funds to actual operations. And yeah, a LOT more mistakes.

We had to put up with substandard ships and aircraft, yet still fill our mission.

Clinton was in the ROTC but never took his uniform out of the closet.

Obama just as bad. Fund the CG down, but keep up the optempo.

Homicide carges ...just does not sound right though.

Neglect and Courts-Martial and loss of all benefits. Homicide?

How about the whole watch team? Don't give me that shit. As a BMOW
I supervised a whole watch team. CO is not going to be on the bridge 24/7.
Ultimatly his responsibility, but I put it on the OOD and BMOW.

[darin]

Going after the Big Boss for something he likely was asleep during - that doesn't sit right with me. It's problematic. The Watch Team fucked up, probably more complicated than that, but generally that's what i think happened.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Bottom line... ships shouldn't collide... somebody isn't doing their job... somebody's head should roll, and with the military, it's usually the man in charge.

It is almost treasonous the way the kenyan shit stain fired top military brass, but then we had a democrat propaganda wing that did nothing but kiss his ass for 8 years.

I'm still waiting for some enterprising individual to go to Hawaii and prove there is NO hard copy certificate of birth there. I don't know why president Trump doesn't send the secret service there with warrant in hand to see it. The fuckin left wants a scandal? Where there's the biggest scandal to ever hit the nation since it's inception.

[darin]

Bottom line... ships shouldn't collide... somebody isn't doing their job... somebody's head should roll, and with the military, it's usually the man in charge.

Right - Commander is the safety officer, training officer, and all that - Yes, he or she is responsible to ensure properly-trained Sailors and Marines and Soldiers and Airmen. But if the Commander - who cannot pick his/her staff - is asleep, because they have to sleep - and the driver hits something...its not criminal neglect on teh commander's part. We're talking Charges of Murder.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Right - Commander is the safety officer, training officer, and all that - Yes, he or she is responsible to ensure properly-trained Sailors and Marines and Soldiers and Airmen. But if the Commander - who cannot pick his/her staff - is asleep, because they have to sleep - and the driver hits something...its not criminal neglect on teh commander's part. We're talking Charges of Murder.

Yeah that's true.

After we got F-16's at Nellis AFB, we lost a lot of our top enlisted stripes in our shop. I found myself later as a Buck Sergeant as the NCOIC. So one night one of our moron troops, and this guy was a moron, I had already written him up for 35-10 a couple times, patches not sewn on correct, sweat stains under his arm pits on his uniform, boots not shined, (and I hated GI's that didn't keep with strict 35-10), etc, don't know how this jackass got through basic, but he went out one night and applied 3,000psi of hydraulic pressure to an air craft when there was a red X in the forms that said DON'T, and sprayed a geyser of hydraulic fluid a hundred feet in the air and all over adjacent air craft. Well first thing I knew when I got to the base the next day I had to report to the first shirts office. "I" was in trouble for allowing such a MORON on the flight line. As it turned out though I had a pretty good relationship with the first shirt who was a cross over from the Marines and he knew this guy was a FUCK UP. He asked me what I wanted to do with this person and I said, he has no place in the Air Force sarge. The first shirt agreed and the dude was discharged just like that.

[aboutime]

Right - Commander is the safety officer, training officer, and all that - Yes, he or she is responsible to ensure properly-trained Sailors and Marines and Soldiers and Airmen. But if the Commander - who cannot pick his/her staff - is asleep, because they have to sleep - and the driver hits something...its not criminal neglect on teh commander's part. We're talking Charges of Murder.

darin. The rules are totally different on a navy ship. Not a plane, not in a tank, but a ship at sea.
The Commanding Officer is TOTALLY responsible for everything that takes place 24/7 on a ship.
The crew of officers, and enlisted follow the COMMANDING OFFICER'S orders. Nobody else's.

The C.O. of a ship is as powerful as the President of the United States. Any accident that takes place, such as a collision at sea is ULTIMATELY...the C.O.'s fault. Poor training, or the lack of training is the C.O.'s fault. If the crew members on the bridge fail to do their jobs correctly for the safety of the ship, and the crew. That is the responsibility of the Commanding Officer as well.
Yes. He/She has to sleep. But while sleeping. He must put his total trust in the training of the officers, and crew 100%, all the time. If they screw up. HE GETS MOVED FROM THE SHIP. Loses his command. Not the crew.
At sea. The C.O. can't call on somebody in the Pentagon, or a Fire Department to handle emergencies on the ship. When you are thousands of miles into the middle of the Oceans. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. So, the C.O. IS responsible for any deaths caused by complacency or failures of the crew. PERIOD

[Gunny]

darin. The rules are totally different on a navy ship. Not a plane, not in a tank, but a ship at sea.
The Commanding Officer is TOTALLY responsible for everything that takes place 24/7 on a ship.
The crew of officers, and enlisted follow the COMMANDING OFFICER'S orders. Nobody else's.

The C.O. of a ship is as powerful as the President of the United States. Any accident that takes place, such as a collision at sea is ULTIMATELY...the C.O.'s fault. Poor training, or the lack of training is the C.O.'s fault. If the crew members on the bridge fail to do their jobs correctly for the safety of the ship, and the crew. That is the responsibility of the Commanding Officer as well.
Yes. He/She has to sleep. But while sleeping. He must put his total trust in the training of the officers, and crew 100%, all the time. If they screw up. HE GETS MOVED FROM THE SHIP. Loses his command. Not the crew.
At sea. The C.O. can't call on somebody in the Pentagon, or a Fire Department to handle emergencies on the ship. When you are thousands of miles into the middle of the Oceans. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. So, the C.O. IS responsible for any deaths caused by complacency or failures of the crew. PERIOD

Definitely a different world. There's no appeal for NJP at sea. The Captain's word is issue resolved.

[pete311]

Pretty insane the navy doesn't have people that can steer ships.

[aboutime]

Pretty insane the navy doesn't have people that can steer ships.

No petey. It's only insane that you lowered yourself to say such a stupid thing.

[Gunny]

That WAS dumb.

[pete311]

No petey. It's only insane that you lowered yourself to say such a stupid thing.

please explain the multiple crashes that killed people then

[aboutime]

please explain the multiple crashes that killed people then

Not gonna play your game. YOU tell us about the multiple crashes, since you are smarter than all of us. If you can't handle being told the TRUTH. That's your problem.
How bout you telling us about all of the automobile accidents that happen every day. Want to explain how all of those happened too?