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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Really ?

    I've a funny feeling that this will evaporate in the coming days and weeks. President Trump is proving to be a staunch ally in the Salisbury chemical poisoning matter.

    I like the idea of us all finding common ground 'as friends and citizens', as has been suggested. All well and good.

    You could start by showing us an open mind when it comes to criminal chemical weapon deployment. Accept that, when it's finally IRREFUTABLY proven beyond any possible shadow of a doubt that Russia is responsible, justice needs to be meted out to all who hold responsibility.

    If - as I believe - this includes Putin himself - will you be openly critical of your leader ? Will you think that he needs to shoulder responsibility for his actions ?

    I can criticize Putin without problems, there are no problems. perhaps a large part of Russia wanted to Trump became President.

    as for chemical weapons. believe me, no evidence will be provided. Will only the headlines that Russia is again guilty of something. Pay attention to when the offences investigated by the Russia before she collects the facts and then publicly accuse someone

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    I can criticize Putin without problems, there are no problems. perhaps a large part of Russia wanted to Trump became President.

    as for chemical weapons. believe me, no evidence will be provided. Will only the headlines that Russia is again guilty of something. Pay attention to when the offences investigated by the Russia before she collects the facts and then publicly accuse someone
    Stall tactic. The UK has no reason to but a lot of face to lose by claiming it has something it does not.

    Was your arrogant self aware that chemical weapons leave a distinct footprint as traceable to one source as a fingerprint? Thing about arrogance ... pointless and BASELESS displayed pride based on insecurity which is exposed to everyone except the person displaying it. Arrogant people think they're so much smarter than everyone else that no one can see what they are doing when the very nature of their arrogance causes them to be sloppy and not bother covering their tracks as they think no one else is msart enough to see them.

    Like using a Soviet-produced, weapons grade chemical agent to attack a civilian as if it would go unnoticed.

    Just a thought.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Stall tactic. The UK has no reason to but a lot of face to lose by claiming it has something it does not.

    Was your arrogant self aware that chemical weapons leave a distinct footprint as traceable to one source as a fingerprint? Thing about arrogance ... pointless and BASELESS displayed pride based on insecurity which is exposed to everyone except the person displaying it. Arrogant people think they're so much smarter than everyone else that no one can see what they are doing when the very nature of their arrogance causes them to be sloppy and not bother covering their tracks as they think no one else is msart enough to see them.

    Like using a Soviet-produced, weapons grade chemical agent to attack a civilian as if it would go unnoticed.

    Just a thought.
    where's the evidence that there was a print of"Novichok"? Only headlines, Only statements by the government. While I haven't seen the evidence)) and I think it's funny

  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    where's the evidence that there was a print of"Novichok"? Only headlines, Only statements by the government. While I haven't seen the evidence)) and I think it's funny
    You're repeating yourself. The UK has agreed to provide a sample to the UN. Simple as THAT. You demanding concrete evidence right this minute continuously isn't going to hasten that up a bit. You can play your little game of demanding the evidence now, chiding the accusers and whatever, and it STILL isn't going to change a thing.

    A wise man would shut his mouth and wait for the results. I am quite sure instead, you are thinking up all kinds of reason "why not"/denials when concrete evidence is put right in your face. The humor in this? You guys suck at this game. You need to get with our Democratic party on how to play it. Stall, use the media, stall again, and keep stalling and denying until something else comes along to capture the public's attention and this will be forgotten.

    I think you overstepped this time. Brits don't like to forget things. And you know why I give them the benefit of doubt? The Brits usually don't accuse anyone of anything and don't even want to offend their own shadows. When they come out with a point blank accusation, it tends to get noticed. That's how it works when you don't sit around crying wolf every other day.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  7. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    You're repeating yourself. The UK has agreed to provide a sample to the UN. Simple as THAT. You demanding concrete evidence right this minute continuously isn't going to hasten that up a bit. You can play your little game of demanding the evidence now, chiding the accusers and whatever, and it STILL isn't going to change a thing.

    A wise man would shut his mouth and wait for the results. I am quite sure instead, you are thinking up all kinds of reason "why not"/denials when concrete evidence is put right in your face. The humor in this? You guys suck at this game. You need to get with our Democratic party on how to play it. Stall, use the media, stall again, and keep stalling and denying until something else comes along to capture the public's attention and this will be forgotten.

    I think you overstepped this time. Brits don't like to forget things. And you know why I give them the benefit of doubt? The Brits usually don't accuse anyone of anything and don't even want to offend their own shadows. When they come out with a point blank accusation, it tends to get noticed. That's how it works when you don't sit around crying wolf every other day.
    Britain even references to provide samples, an imprint of this substance. there even a corpse from a crime scene didn't take away, and already all speak that it is Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    Britain even references to provide samples, an imprint of this substance. there even a corpse from a crime scene didn't take away, and already all speak that it is Russia.
    Again, you are incorrect. Besides posting on the same topic in 2 separate threads. The UK has levied the accusation, says it has evidence and says it is willing to present that evidence to the UN. I am not "everybody", the UK, nor especially not the UN. Nor am I the media.

    I am discussing the issue and Russia looks guilty as Hell based on the evidence. That is my opinion for the moment. When and if it is proven otherwise, I will adjust my opinion accordingly.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  10. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Again, you are incorrect. Besides posting on the same topic in 2 separate threads. The UK has levied the accusation, says it has evidence and says it is willing to present that evidence to the UN. I am not "everybody", the UK, nor especially not the UN. Nor am I the media.

    I am discussing the issue and Russia looks guilty as Hell based on the evidence. That is my opinion for the moment. When and if it is proven otherwise, I will adjust my opinion accordingly.
    I'll remember your phrases, I'll remember your statements. let's wait for news

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    I'll remember your phrases, I'll remember your statements. let's wait for news
    Feel free to do so. I have no problem altering an opinion based on new evidence. I'd rather admit I'm wrong and adjust accordingly than stand in the same space and get killed for it.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  13. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    I'll remember your phrases, I'll remember your statements. let's wait for news
    Good for you.

    Gunny's done a stellar job in replying to you -- altogether better than I'd have done, I think, had I been online at the time. I've just about nothing to add to his posts of any actual substance, as such, that hasn't been said.

    But still: let's suppose - as I'm sure will happen - that events from this point on do NOT go as you apparently believe they will. Let's say that an independent adjudication confirms what the UK side has said, and that the origin of the nerve agent is conclusively proven to have come from Russia, and nowhere else. Let's say that it becomes impossible to conclude anything other than Russia's culpability to anyone viewing all this rationally.

    What will be the response of people such as yourself, and Balu, I wonder ?

    Will you admit Russia's wrongdoings ?

    Will you be sorry for them, on your country's behalf ?

    Will you feel that the UK deserves something in return ? That, in fact, the civilised world does ?? Will you consider that Russia has gone too far, that it must stop such actions abroad, it must reform its attitudes, promise never to commit such actions again ?

    OR, will you somehow bluster your way out, instead, give us a further display of Russian pride, continue (as your countryman has) with an evident 'might is right' approach to world affairs ?

    OR, maybe, you'll just ignore the conclusion ? Or, just disappear, rather than take it on the chin ??

    I'll observe all that with interest.

    My hope is that you'll do the honourable thing and admit when you're wrong .. that decency may prevail.

    WE SHALL SEE.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  15. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Good for you.

    Gunny's done a stellar job in replying to you -- altogether better than I'd have done, I think, had I been online at the time. I've just about nothing to add to his posts of any actual substance, as such, that hasn't been said.

    But still: let's suppose - as I'm sure will happen - that events from this point on do NOT go as you apparently believe they will. Let's say that an independent adjudication confirms what the UK side has said, and that the origin of the nerve agent is conclusively proven to have come from Russia, and nowhere else. Let's say that it becomes impossible to conclude anything other than Russia's culpability to anyone viewing all this rationally.

    What will be the response of people such as yourself, and Balu, I wonder ?

    Will you admit Russia's wrongdoings ?

    Will you be sorry for them, on your country's behalf ?

    Will you feel that the UK deserves something in return ? That, in fact, the civilised world does ?? Will you consider that Russia has gone too far, that it must stop such actions abroad, it must reform its attitudes, promise never to commit such actions again ?

    OR, will you somehow bluster your way out, instead, give us a further display of Russian pride, continue (as your countryman has) with an evident 'might is right' approach to world affairs ?

    OR, maybe, you'll just ignore the conclusion ? Or, just disappear, rather than take it on the chin ??

    I'll observe all that with interest.

    My hope is that you'll do the honourable thing and admit when you're wrong .. that decency may prevail.

    WE SHALL SEE.
    my plan is not to sneak out.

    let me remind you that Skripal was serving a sentence in Russia for treason, he passed secret documents to the UK. Dmitry Medvedev pardoned him in 2010. After that, he was expelled to the UK. We didn't need him anymore. It was empty. He had served his sentence. and we let him go to the UK. What's the point of our country killing him? on the eve of elections 18.03.2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    my plan is not to sneak out.


    Excellent ! That's well worth applauding. Good for you, Sir !

    let me remind you that Skripal was serving a sentence in Russia for treason, he passed secret documents to the UK. Dmitry Medvedev pardoned him in 2010. After that, he was expelled to the UK. We didn't need him anymore. It was empty. He had served his sentence. and we let him go to the UK. What's the point of our country killing him? on the eve of elections 18.03.2010
    I haven't done the research, so I don't know .. though I'm wondering if it was the case that Skripal became a 'traitor' simply because he, like other decent people, perceived aspects of Russian rule that he, as a man of conscience, just couldn't stomach ? Perhaps, at heart, he'd have much preferred to remain loyal to a country which was WORTH being loyal to, because it stood for, and practiced, decent values ?

    I don't mean to insult you by saying this. I mean just what I say, in the way that I say it, as a perfectly honest appraisal. Your country has done much in its past that's lamentable !! From nearly inflicting nuclear extinction on the human race, for example, courtesy of the Cuban Missile Crisis, in 1962, thanks to its belligerence in placing nuclear missiles on nearby Cuba, in easy rapid strike range of the American mainland (obviously as first-strike weapons)...

    .... or, the starvation programme visited upon Ukraine, from Stalin ?

    .... or, the servitude of all the satellite countries suffered under the Soviet empirical setup ? ....

    .... or, the invasions of Hungary, 1956, Czechoslovakia, 1968, Afghanistan, 1980 (interesting 12 year gaps, between each !) ....

    ... you know, 'LITTLE' things like those .....

    So -- you might judge Russian traitors harshly. I would not ... because they may be acting as men of conscience. Because they possess a sense of decency which your politicians lack.

    But as for Skripal ... he might've been targeted for no other good reason than that be could be used as an illustration to others what other Russians are required to fear, if they ever defy Putin. Since you've imminent elections, maybe the timing was perfect to teach that lesson to others ? H'mm .... ?

    It's not as though your Russian rulers have a good track record when it comes to the sanctity of human life !!!!
    Last edited by Drummond; 03-16-2018 at 10:25 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  18. #162
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    Default But Putin had other idea's....bang, bang....

    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    my plan is not to sneak out.

    let me remind you that Skripal was serving a sentence in Russia for treason, he passed secret documents to the UK. Dmitry Medvedev pardoned him in 2010. After that, he was expelled to the UK. We didn't need him anymore. It was empty. He had served his sentence. and we let him go to the UK. What's the point of our country killing him? on the eve of elections 18.03.2010
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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  20. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutime View Post
    today this organization is called GRU

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    to this hour:
    Vladimir Putin - 73.9%
    Pavel Grudinin - 11.2%
    Vladimir Zhirinivskiy - 6.7%
    Kseniya Sobchyak - 2.5%
    Grigoriy Yavlinskiy - 1.6%
    Boris Titov - 1.1%
    Sergey Baburin - 1.0%
    Maksim Suraykin - 0.9%

    the vote in Crimea : Vladimir Putin 91%


    from 15 countries there were attacks of hackers, tried to influence elections.They did not succeed, our systems survived. But we are polite and well-mannered and do not accuse any country of this.


    we don't make out of this show, we are developing imperceptibly from everyone. as long as you think we are a banana Republic we go forward.
    processed 30% of the ballots
    the counting of votes continues...
    Last edited by Papokarlo; 03-18-2018 at 01:58 PM.

  22. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papokarlo View Post
    to this hour:
    Vladimir Putin - 73.9%
    Pavel Grudinin - 11.2%
    Vladimir Zhirinivskiy - 6.7%
    Kseniya Sobchyak - 2.5%
    Grigoriy Yavlinskiy - 1.6%
    Boris Titov - 1.1%
    Sergey Baburin - 1.0%
    Maksim Suraykin - 0.9%

    the vote in Crimea : Vladimir Putin 91%

    the counting of votes continues...
    I'm surprised it isn't 100%, but we DO have to keep up our pretenses of legitimacy, don't we?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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