Some thoughts at the table yesterday...

[Balu]

Balu, why are even having thoughts on how specifically Russia should attack the US? What kind of around-the-dinner-table discussion is that? I can tell you that I never have had discussions with anyone on "if the US were to attack Russia, how should we do it?".

How about during your next dinner conversation, you focus more on how specifically Russia could attack North Korea? After all, you actually share a border with them. Plus, you'd be doing everyone a favor.

It is very simple. That Holiday was a Day of Defender a dayof those servicemen in active service or retired, who spent a part of their life to ensure the security of our country. So, it is quite natural that at the table men started talking shops.

[Balu]

​Here is an Interesting video I found just looking around and add to the conversation here...best to watch the whole thing to understand ....*And @Gunny there is a pretty Russian Girl in it giving her opinions...

"RUSSIAN MILLENNIALS SPEAK OPENLY ABOUT AMERICA"


**Published on Dec 15, 2016

To understand it is better to live in Russia, say for a couple of years. Not to visit as a tourist and see Russia from the tourist double-Decker, but to live among the Russians. This will give a chance to understand something about us.
As to the girl, the is from the Institute I've graduated from in early 70-s and, I like her approaches and how she expresses her thoughts.

[Balu]

I have to disagree, Mundame. If the point is to propagandize us, he would be trying to convince us that Russia has a better system, is a better place to live. You can't win the hearts and minds of a kick-a** country like ours, with threats.

You are right.
It is unrealistic task to compete against your state propaganda machine blinkering your eyes and brains.
P.S.
Please, read again attentively the very beginning of my first post in the thread and you will see that there is no a single threat, subject to...

...we were analyzing and modeling the possible scenarios in view of recent American declarations and actions.
Discussing all these we came to one conclusion - Americans NEVER consider a possibility of conducting combat actions on their own territory with all the attendant destructions and casualties, including those, among civilians: old-men, women and children. They are sure that if the War will happen, it will be restricted only by European Scene of Operations as it was in previous Wars, when they didn't reach an American Continent. Speaking about this it became evident, that in case of ANY assault against Russia from ANY European NATO country there will be an immediate reciprocal mass NUCLEAR strike at the objectives in territory of the USA

[Drummond]

You know, I think, that it is time to trow away all that Russia vs USA shit. Damn propaganda. There are not too many young people here actucally believe all that crap. Only few crazy, or dumb persons and commies. But there always will be crazy and dumb people. And communists, their ideas - is past.

I do really hope, that soon people here will stop to be such a paranoiacs.

And I belive, that it is not only "USA vs Russia" discussion. It's about "Russia vs The whole white, european civilization".
Yes, in past, when my land was ruled by red traitors, there was propaganda and people here did not have any opportunity to know, how the West lives. But now, when we have the internet, when we can travel, we finally start to communicate with other folks. And I belive, that soon people will just laugh at that propaganda.

All civilized people must unite. Unite to discover the unknown, to travel and study to space, to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats. We must move forward. But we spare resources to just hate each other.
It is the most stupid thing, that humanity doing.

This counts as some very welcome balance ... thank you.

We have to hope that Balu's worldview is a minority one, even in his homeland. We all do.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You know, I think, that it is time to trow away all that Russia vs USA shit. Damn propaganda. There are not too many young people here actucally believe all that crap. Only few crazy, or dumb persons and commies. But there always will be crazy and dumb people. And communists, their ideas - is past.

I do really hope, that soon people here will stop to be such a paranoiacs.

And I belive, that it is not only "USA vs Russia" discussion. It's about "Russia vs The whole white, european civilization".
Yes, in past, when my land was ruled by red traitors, there was propaganda and people here did not have any opportunity to know, how the West lives. But now, when we have the internet, when we can travel, we finally start to communicate with other folks. And I belive, that soon people will just laugh at that propaganda.

All civilized people must unite. Unite to discover the unknown, to travel and study to space, to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats. We must move forward. But we spare resources to just hate each other.
It is the most stupid thing, that humanity doing.

""All civilized people must unite. Unite to discover the unknown, to travel and study to space, to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats. We must move forward. But we spare resources to just hate each other""

""to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats.""

^^^^^Dead on target. The Islamic threat is the main one we in America are being blinded to, by both dem party and globalist propaganda..
China owns the Dem party.... --Tyr

[High_Plains_Drifter]

So, Russia is still pretty much what we thought it was... restricting what they can access on the internet, and if you speak out against "the system," Putin throws you in prison, and since most people support Putin, probably because they have to, he can cheat on any election he's see's fit. Russia still operates as though it's a dictatorship and totalitarian.

I wonder if the Russians know that America spends NINE TIMES as much money a year on our military, and that our military has no equal. I guarantee you that we have toys we haven't even broke out yet, that no one even knows about.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...ca-china-23925

Forget North Korea or Russia: The Real Threat to America Is China
Ramon Marks

January 4, 2018
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Printer-friendly version

The strategic implications of China’s rising power have prompted ambivalent reactions from the U.S. and western democracies. Unlike the quick coalescence on the containment strategy for the Soviet Union after World War II, there is still no real consensus on how the United States should deal with China in the 21st century. Some see its ascension as aggressive and dangerous, calling for a firm balancing response led by the United States and its allies, but avoiding what Graham Allison calls Thucydides Trap, the war between an established and rising power. Others on the spectrum are less certain, pondering whether strategic patience and positive diplomatic and business engagement is the answer, giving time for China to evolve into what many hope will ultimately be a comfortable fit with the free market global system.

The fact that China has already bypassed the United States as the world’s biggest economy according to IMF rankings for the past three years, and continues to grow its economy more than three times faster than the U.S., has yet to be fully absorbed strategically. It is hard for many to believe that an authoritarian state is surpassing the United States in the 21st century as the world’s top economic power, with accompanying political, diplomatic and military power to follow.


Since the end of World War II, and particularly since the collapse of the Soviet Union, it has been an article of faith that the United States is the world’s preeminent power, in every domain, including economic, political and military. With China’s talented population four times larger than the U.S., its vast natural resources strategically positioned in Eurasia, and its unique adaptation of market economics, it has significant potential to shatter those long-held assumptions of U.S. national security strategy.

The United States will only be able to do so much to punch above its weight in any long-term economic competition with China. Size matters. A market economy of 1.4 billion educated people controlled by authoritarian values will have inevitable advantages over the United States with a population one quarter the size, no matter how talented and dynamic.

Instead of accepting these emerging realities, however, the reaction by many in the United States has been denial. Some quibble over which statistical measures to believe. The IMF GDP ranking is based on purchasing power parity, the measure favored by economists for comparing national economies as it tracks the purchasing power of each country using its own currency. These deniers point instead to nominal GDP figures which are based on market exchange rate conversion of local currency into U.S. dollars. Under nominal GDP, the U.S. does remain technically number one for the moment, but given China’s rate of growth, the U.S. will be surpassed even under this less accurate measure by 2029, or earlier.

Others are total deniers, arguing that China will never reach economic parity with the United States. They believe that China’s rapid growth is unsustainable, creating mountains of debt that will inevitably cause collapse. Others outright deny China’s numbers, arguing that they cook the books with lies, with real GDP and growth less than what is officially reported. Deniers also point to China’s diminishing labor supply, caused by low fertility rates and an aging population. Another school of deniers even claims that the problem is not China, but rather the United States, itself. Superior Chinese entrepreneurs, who are more open to bold risk and initiative, have outperformed the U.S. The U.S. should not blame China but get its own house in order.

If the fundamental premises of any arguments put forward by deniers is correct, the United States should have nothing to worry about, time is on its side, particularly if the U.S. rebuilds its infrastructure and pursues successful domestic policies to strengthen its ability to meet China business competition. Building a 21stcentury policy on such assumptions, however, is at best unwise. If wrong, the U.S. will face the day when China is a unipolar, authoritarian hegemon. The risk is too great.

Arguments by deniers also have substantive pitfalls. Inevitable economic collapse is not a sure thing. The Chinese yuan is not freely convertible. Western investors cannot swiftly convert the yuan into dollars as a correcting mechanism if they become uncomfortable with rising Chinese debt. China, through its Communist Party, also has ironclad control over its population and press. They will not challenge the Party’s debt creation policies. With an extraordinarily high savings rate, quadruple that of the United States, the Chinese government can also take advantage of hundreds of billions of annual free cash flow, giving them far greater flexibility to finance debt. Moreover, China can always play its ultimate card. The government exercises total control over its banking system, enabling it to swiftly shuffle debt to equity as it has done when expedient in the past.

[Drummond]

Forget North Korea or Russia: The Real Threat to America Is China
Ramon Marks

January 4, 2018
TweetShareShare
Printer-friendly version

The strategic implications of China’s rising power have prompted ambivalent reactions from the U.S. and western democracies. Unlike the quick coalescence on the containment strategy for the Soviet Union after World War II, there is still no real consensus on how the United States should deal with China in the 21st century. Some see its ascension as aggressive and dangerous, calling for a firm balancing response led by the United States and its allies, but avoiding what Graham Allison calls Thucydides Trap, the war between an established and rising power. Others on the spectrum are less certain, pondering whether strategic patience and positive diplomatic and business engagement is the answer, giving time for China to evolve into what many hope will ultimately be a comfortable fit with the free market global system.

The fact that China has already bypassed the United States as the world’s biggest economy according to IMF rankings for the past three years, and continues to grow its economy more than three times faster than the U.S., has yet to be fully absorbed strategically. It is hard for many to believe that an authoritarian state is surpassing the United States in the 21st century as the world’s top economic power, with accompanying political, diplomatic and military power to follow.


Since the end of World War II, and particularly since the collapse of the Soviet Union, it has been an article of faith that the United States is the world’s preeminent power, in every domain, including economic, political and military. With China’s talented population four times larger than the U.S., its vast natural resources strategically positioned in Eurasia, and its unique adaptation of market economics, it has significant potential to shatter those long-held assumptions of U.S. national security strategy.

The United States will only be able to do so much to punch above its weight in any long-term economic competition with China. Size matters. A market economy of 1.4 billion educated people controlled by authoritarian values will have inevitable advantages over the United States with a population one quarter the size, no matter how talented and dynamic.

Instead of accepting these emerging realities, however, the reaction by many in the United States has been denial. Some quibble over which statistical measures to believe. The IMF GDP ranking is based on purchasing power parity, the measure favored by economists for comparing national economies as it tracks the purchasing power of each country using its own currency. These deniers point instead to nominal GDP figures which are based on market exchange rate conversion of local currency into U.S. dollars. Under nominal GDP, the U.S. does remain technically number one for the moment, but given China’s rate of growth, the U.S. will be surpassed even under this less accurate measure by 2029, or earlier.

Others are total deniers, arguing that China will never reach economic parity with the United States. They believe that China’s rapid growth is unsustainable, creating mountains of debt that will inevitably cause collapse. Others outright deny China’s numbers, arguing that they cook the books with lies, with real GDP and growth less than what is officially reported. Deniers also point to China’s diminishing labor supply, caused by low fertility rates and an aging population. Another school of deniers even claims that the problem is not China, but rather the United States, itself. Superior Chinese entrepreneurs, who are more open to bold risk and initiative, have outperformed the U.S. The U.S. should not blame China but get its own house in order.

If the fundamental premises of any arguments put forward by deniers is correct, the United States should have nothing to worry about, time is on its side, particularly if the U.S. rebuilds its infrastructure and pursues successful domestic policies to strengthen its ability to meet China business competition. Building a 21stcentury policy on such assumptions, however, is at best unwise. If wrong, the U.S. will face the day when China is a unipolar, authoritarian hegemon. The risk is too great.

Arguments by deniers also have substantive pitfalls. Inevitable economic collapse is not a sure thing. The Chinese yuan is not freely convertible. Western investors cannot swiftly convert the yuan into dollars as a correcting mechanism if they become uncomfortable with rising Chinese debt. China, through its Communist Party, also has ironclad control over its population and press. They will not challenge the Party’s debt creation policies. With an extraordinarily high savings rate, quadruple that of the United States, the Chinese government can also take advantage of hundreds of billions of annual free cash flow, giving them far greater flexibility to finance debt. Moreover, China can always play its ultimate card. The government exercises total control over its banking system, enabling it to swiftly shuffle debt to equity as it has done when expedient in the past.

Tyr, we agree that Islamism, and China, are both threats. But .. so is Russia. The belligerence of their whole approach to world affairs, and not caring to accept culpability for any wrongdoing ... in world security terms, this is a very worrying feature.

We ignore this at our peril.

[Polite Russian]

It means I don't speak Russian. I'm pretty good with Euro languages because they all follow the same basic principles. Russian is like when I was trying to learn Greek when I lived on Crete. Different letters and rules. I an actually understand more Japanese than I can Russian.

haha, yeah, I think, that I can understand your feelings about russian. We have crazy language and it is, probably, hard for you to undersand the "language logic" and pronounce our words right.

I have a friend, she is from Sweden and I used to teach her a little Well, she have some progress.

[Polite Russian]

""All civilized people must unite. Unite to discover the unknown, to travel and study to space, to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats. We must move forward. But we spare resources to just hate each other""

""to eliminate that middle-eastern islamic threats.""

^^^^^Dead on target. The Islamic threat is the main one we in America are being blinded to, by both dem party and globalist propaganda..
China owns the Dem party.... --Tyr

We know a lot about islamic threats. Google for chechen wars. And North Caucasus is still unstable region. Our special forces often kill some of that terrorist barbarians

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr, we agree that Islamism, and China, are both threats. But .. so is Russia. The belligerence of their whole approach to world affairs, and not caring to accept culpability for any wrongdoing ... in world security terms, this is a very worrying feature.

We ignore this at our peril.

Tyr, we agree that Islamism, and China, are both threats. But .. so is Russia.

True in that any of the big five powers that are nuked up and have a large modern military is a threat.
Given that, say those three threats are a clear and present danger, we should look at which one is engaged in war with us now!
Answer, Islam-- which is in the process of creating the Koranic prophesied Caliphate.
Should that happen and Iran is nuked up-- which threat is greater??
Russia would not unless absolutely forced , fire nukes at us because we have more nuclear capability than they do.
Can you say the same about the ffing insane murdering muslim bastards!!????
Islam and China each present a greater threat THAN DOES RUSSIA, my friend, IMHO..

AND CHINA DOES SO FOR ANOTHER HUGE ADDITIONAL REASON-THEY OWN THE FFING DEM PARTY AND ARE ITS ALLIES--obama and the Clintons prove that aptly enough, IMHO..
AN ENEMY NOT SEEN TO BE AN ENEMY IS A VERY, VERY , VERY GRAVE DANGER..
ESPECIALLY ONE THAT HAS SO DEEPLY INFILTRATED OUR GOVERNMENT..BOUGHT SO MANY FEDERAL OFFICIALS --Tyr

[aboutime]

Obama became the biggest enemy of America after OBL checked-out.

[Drummond]

True in that any of the big five powers that are nuked up and have a large modern military is a threat.
Given that, say those three threats are a clear and present danger, we should look at which one is engaged in war with us now!
Answer, Islam-- which is in the process of creating the Koranic prophesied Caliphate.
Should that happen and Iran is nuked up-- which threat is greater??
Russia would not unless absolutely forced , fire nukes at us because we have more nuclear capability than they do.
Can you say the same about the ffing insane murdering muslim bastards!!????
Islam and China each present a greater threat THAN DOES RUSSIA, my friend, IMHO..

AND CHINA DOES SO FOR ANOTHER HUGE ADDITIONAL REASON-THEY OWN THE FFING DEM PARTY AND ARE ITS ALLIES--obama and the Clintons prove that aptly enough, IMHO..
AN ENEMY NOT SEEN TO BE AN ENEMY IS A VERY, VERY , VERY GRAVE DANGER..
ESPECIALLY ONE THAT HAS SO DEEPLY INFILTRATED OUR GOVERNMENT..BOUGHT SO MANY FEDERAL OFFICIALS --Tyr

You make good points. The Islamic threat in particular MUST NOT be minimised.

My problem with Russia has, if anything, been confirmed by one of Russia's posters here (happily, the other has a more welcome approach !). I get the distinct impression of a mentality which very literally thinks that 'might is right', and that, since Russia is a 'mighty' country, it must be excused any answerability for any aggressions it may care to commit.

I'm not sure it CAN get any more worrying than that !! A world Superpower thinking itself unconstrained by any considerations that oppose it at all ... such a power must surely represent a great threat to any nation holding to decent principles and values.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You make good points. The Islamic threat in particular MUST NOT be minimised.

My problem with Russia has, if anything, been confirmed by one of Russia's posters here (happily, the other has a more welcome approach !). I get the distinct impression of a mentality which very literally thinks that 'might is right', and that, since Russia is a 'mighty' country, it must be excused any answerability for any aggressions it may care to commit.

I'm not sure it CAN get any more worrying than that !! A world Superpower thinking itself unconstrained by any considerations that oppose it at all ... such a power must surely represent a great threat to any nation holding to decent principles and values.

I do not make Russia out to be anon-threat my friend..

In fact, I quite readily point out its history and how both Napoleon and Hitler found out the hard way what a great threat Russia is.
As to how we work either with Russia or against it--well that is a very serious consideration.
Currently the dem party 's previous agenda and ongoing vilification bolds ill for us as a nation..
Our primary concern should be how to deal with the greater threats of Islam and China,IMHO...
ESPECIALLY SINCE BOTH OF THOSE CURRENT ONGOING THREATS ARE DOWNPLAYED AND THE RUSSIA THREAT IS GROSSLY EXAGGERATED.

ONE CAN RARELY GO WRONG WHEN THEY WORK AGAINST WHATEVER THE FFING DEM PARTY PROMOTES AND ALLIES ITSELF WITH MY FRIEND.

[Polite Russian]

This counts as some very welcome balance ... thank you.

We have to hope that Balu's worldview is a minority one, even in his homeland. We all do.

Don't worry, majority here, as I know, just don't care. They just live and do their majority things.
We are the country of cynics. I don't know anyone, who actually believe any propaganda. And those who believe usualy just have less IQ then a piece of bread.