Want Socialized Medicine? Great. I'd Be Dead

[-Cp]

I didn't mention taxes here. The connection is that all these countries have government healthcare that covers all citizens and coincidentally, all of these countries' citizens live longer than US citizens. They also have lower infant mortality rates. Lower obesity rates, etc. -I know that's not related to healthcare per se, but still...http://breitbart.com/article.php?id=...show_article=1

We all know US citizens pay more per capita for healthcare than any other country on Earth. Yet we have more citizens who aren't covered than any other western country and we rank 42nd in the world for lifespans. What are we paying for? And how can we say we stand for protecting human life when a huge amount of our own citizens aren't even covered if they get sick? It's a joke.

Our ranking in mortality rates have NOTHING to do w/ the health-care and EVERYTHING to do with too many folks can't seem to go on the "STOP-EATING-SO-DAMNED-MUCH-DIET"....

[Hagbard Celine]

how many of the places that have a higher life span and lower obseity rates lack a McDonalds. that is what's wrong with the US. MICKYD"S! damn them and there semi-cheap and fast serving food in all of it's artery clogging goodness. and the UK..you can't even get peanut butter there without going to certain stores...i mean come on!

so with taxes being hiked up wouldn't it be the same as having an insurance plan anyways?

for the ton of Westeners that don't have insurance, how many are illegals? or theirs just haven't activated yet? or some ppl even chose not to have the stuff so they can have the extra money in the pocket.

would they be able to make a socialized med for ppl that want it and then ppl that don't want it don't have to have and can keep the private policy? isn't there also a good number of ppl that, yes there is socialized med, but they have private anyways?

Have you ever been to London? There's a McDonald's on every corner! The same is true in Paris, The Netherlands and Belgium. It's not that they don't have fast food. They have it. The difference is that they don't make their poor citizens suffer without healthcare.

[Trigg]

Have you ever been to London? There's a McDonald's on every corner! The same is true in Paris, The Netherlands and Belgium. It's not that they don't have fast food. They have it. The difference is that they don't make their poor citizens suffer without healthcare.

Really, when was the last time you saw a hospital refuse treatment????? NEVER that's when.

I'll put this in caps since your having trouble today.

HOSPITALS CAN NOT REFUSE TREATMENT BECAUSE OF A PERSONS INABILITY TO PAY.

So......poor citizens are not being made to "suffer without healthcare".

[Nukeman]

Have you ever been to London? There's a McDonald's on every corner! The same is true in Paris, The Netherlands and Belgium. It's not that they don't have fast food. They have it. The difference is that they don't make their poor citizens suffer without healthcare.

No they make them suffer with their under staffed, over utilized system.. They wait in pain for limited services...

What good is coverage if you cant get in to see your Doctor or get specialized testing done.

Right to healthcare does not mean a right to stand in a VERY long line...

[Hagbard Celine]

Really, when was the last time you saw a hospital refuse treatment????? NEVER that's when.

I'll put this in caps since your having trouble today.

HOSPITALS CAN NOT REFUSE TREATMENT BECAUSE OF A PERSONS INABILITY TO PAY.

So......poor citizens are not being made to "suffer without healthcare".

Most don't go because they can't afford the outrageous costs. Did you really think I didn't know emergency rooms can't not treat someone in an emergency? That's not the problem. The problem is when people are bankrupted or put into debt for the rest of their lives just because they needed medical care to save their life. Many, many people simply forego medical treatment because they know they can't afford it or because they know they can't afford insurance.

[Hagbard Celine]

No they make them suffer with their under staffed, over utilized system.. They wait in pain for limited services...

What good is coverage if you cant get in to see your Doctor or get specialized testing done.

Right to healthcare does not mean a right to stand in a VERY long line...

We also have an under staffed, over utilized system. The difference is that we pay out the wazoo for ours.

What good is coverage when your insurance company refuses to pay-out on your claim???

Have you been to an urban emergency room lately? You have this cartoon image from the Cold War of people standing in line to get bread. Are you really naive or moronic enough to believe that citizens in the UK and France and Canada and every other western country stand in long lines at the hospital and get inadequate care? I swear to god it's frustrating "debating" with someone who has a child's view of the world.

[Trigg]

Most don't go because they can't afford the outrageous costs. Did you really think I didn't know emergency rooms can't not treat someone in an emergency? That's not the problem. The problem is when people are bankrupted or put into debt for the rest of their lives just because they needed medical care to save their life. Many, many people simply forego medical treatment because they know they can't afford it or because they know they can't afford insurance.

There are already MANY MANY gov. programs for people with low incomes who need insurance....and no I'm not going to list them again.

[Hagbard Celine]

There are already MANY MANY gov. programs for people with low incomes who need insurance....and no I'm not going to list them again.

So I guess the reason people die and go into debt due to an inability to afford coverage is because they're ignorant about the bounty of already available government health insurance programs? C'mon man. What a crock.

[Trigg]

Are you really naive or moronic enough to believe that citizens in the UK and France and Canada and every other western country stand in long lines at the hospital and get inadaquate care? I swear to god it's frustrating "debating" with someone who has a child's view of the world.

Here I'll answer for him.


I really need to get you on the phone with my sister who lives in Finland, when she is telling me about her 2 month wait for an MRI.

To put this into perspective, today at work we got a call from a Dr's office wanting an MRI, they had to wait 2 hours before they were seen....and they'll have the results tomorrow..................sooner if the doc listens to the dictation line.

[darin]

We also have an under staffed, over utilized system. The difference is that we pay out the wazoo for ours.

....except the only ppl who pay for it are those who get sick. Not counting insurance premiums. Still - 'dmp's' family shouldn't have to pay for your family's medical care. Absolutely not.

[Trigg]

So I guess the reason people die and go into debt due to an inability to afford coverage is because they're ignorant about the bounty of already available government health insurance programs? C'mon man. What a crock.

Run over and check out little acorns thread about the Canadian quads born...not in Canada....but here in the US.

[Hagbard Celine]

Here I'll answer for him.


I really need to get you on the phone with my sister who lives in Finland, when she is telling me about her 2 month wait for an MRI.

To put this into perspective, today at work we got a call from a Dr's office wanting an MRI, they had to wait 2 hours before they were seen....and they'll have the results tomorrow..................sooner if the doc listens to the dictation line.

And I'm guessing this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your sister isn't a Finnish citizen, that Finland has less doctors and nurses per capita than the US or that they have fewer MRI machines but it has everything to do with the public healthcare system? The reason this isn't true in France is because France has more doctors and nurses per capita than the US, the UK and Finland. Wait times are dramatically decreased there because France pays its doctors a little less than they make here and they invest the savings in the public healthcare infrastructure.

You guys do realize that you're arguing in favor of for-profit healthcare right? When you turn medical care into a commodity, it's guaranteed that people at the bottom are going to be left out. It also guarantees that prices are artificially hiked up to increase corporate profiteering. This is our wellbeing--our lives we're talking about. It's sickening to me.

[Monkeybone]

i don't think a 'literal' line was meant Hag. just the time waiting for something when they feel like doing it. and i didn't say that UK and them didn't have McD's, i said no peanut butter numbnuts. sheesh haggy

they suffer, they just have to wait a few months until they get their free health care with the high taxes. some of them don't even go to the doctor cause they know by the time that they can get in it would make no difference. and theses programs that they can get, they one that don't have it usually lack it becaue they do't feel like leaving their welfare paid for trailer to sign a paper that says i need help. i am all for the system that covers underage kids, don't punish them for the rents lack of trying. but at the same time from the underagers that i have seen, most if the parents incurance don't cover it, medicaid picks it up anyways

[Hagbard Celine]

....except the only ppl who pay for it are those who get sick. Not counting insurance premiums. Still - 'dmp's' family shouldn't have to pay for your family's medical care. Absolutely not.

My family is healthy for the most part. Personally I haven't been to the doctor or dentist--except once in college for a terrible sore throat--in atleast six or seven years. None of us has cancer. None of our men have heart attacks. Nobody gets alzheimers.

But IF we were to, it would cost us a fortune and we'd be left to the whims of insurance adjusters as to whether or not we'd even get reimbursed for our care. What kind of "insurance" is that? Personally I don't like being a commodity for some asshat corporation. Healthcare is a service that I want to be able to utilize when I need it. I'm even willing to pay a reasonable price, but the way things are, I have to pay exorbitant amounts of my paycheck to a middle-man insurance company that may or may not decide to cover me in the event of a health emergency depending on the variables involved. Me no likey.

[Trigg]

And I'm guessing this doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your sister isn't a Finnish citizen, that Finland has less doctors and nurses per capita than the US or that they have fewer MRI machines but it has everything to do with the public healthcare system? The reason this isn't true in France is because France has more doctors and nurses per capita than the US, the UK and Finland. Wait times are dramatically decreased there because France pays its doctors a little less than they make here and they invest the savings in the public healthcare infrastructure.

You guys do realize that you're arguing in favor of for-profit healthcare right? When you turn medical care into a commodity, it's guaranteed that people at the bottom are going to be left out. It also guarantees that prices are artificially hiked up to increase corporate profiteering. This is our wellbeing--our lives we're talking about. It's sickening to me.

Wrong...she is a citizen....married to a citizen....and mother to two little citizens.

One reason they have fewer Dr's is because people aren't thrilled to go to school for 7 yrs and come out making as much as the plumber.

There are many hospitals that are NOT FOR PROFIT. I know, I work for one.

Do you work in healthcare????? Does anyone in your family???????