Want Socialized Medicine? Great. I'd Be Dead

[truthmatters]

This was not socialized medicine that did that to him.

[Hagbard Celine]

Wrong...she is a citizen....married to a citizen....and mother to two little citizens.

One reason they have fewer Dr's is because people aren't thrilled to go to school for 7 yrs and come out making as much as the plumber.

There are many hospitals that are NOT FOR PROFIT. I know, I work for one.

Do you work in healthcare????? Does anyone in your family???????

No doctor in the western world makes as little as a plumber. Do you think I was born yesterday?
Good for your sister.
Dude, I've got news for you. If you work for the US healthcare system, you work in a for-profit system. That's how our system is set up. HMOs don't get rich by providing care for everyone who files a claim with them. That's what's f*cked up about our system. If you have a medical emergency and you also pay to have an HMO, you should be covered. But that's not always the case. Many, many claims are denied and people are forced to pay out of pocket, which throws them into debt. And if they have cronic problems, their health also declines due to their inablity to pay for care. And if you can't even afford to have an HMO? You're f*cked. Because if you can't afford to pay a monthly premium, you sure as hell can't afford to pay for medical costs.

[Monkeybone]

My family is healthy for the most part. Personally I haven't been to the doctor or dentist--except once in college for a terrible sore throat--in atleast six or seven years. None of us has cancer. None of our men have heart attacks. Nobody gets alzheimers.

But IF we were to, it would cost us a fortune and we'd be left to the whims of insurance adjusters as to whether or not we'd even get reimbursed for our care. What kind of "insurance" is that? Personally I don't like being a commodity for some asshat corporation. Healthcare is a service that I want to be able to utilize when I need it. I'm even willing to pay a reasonable price, but the way things are, I have to pay exorbitant amounts of my paycheck to a middle-man insurance company that may or may not decide to cover me in the event of a health emergency depending on the variables involved. Me no likey.

my Dad has cancer and now he has it again. one of those ppl that never smoked or anything, just after a test that led to another test it was hey! surprise! you have cancer. he is being very well taken care of and thankfully it was done right away. if they would've waited who know how much it could have spread. and the only thing that has 'broken the finacial' back really is the gas to drive to places for treatments. not the doctors, or the radiation treatments, or the pills that cost 200 bucks a pill, not the chemo that he is in right now that cost a shit load....but gas. gas paying for the driving. should insurance cover that? that would be kinda cool now that i said/think of that...hmmm

how would you like the tax hike for 'free' medical treatment? yah the gov pays for it and woooo! it's 'free' but how does the gov pay for everything else? taxes. the gov would probably also run it like the VA and then we would have plenty of docs! casue they do'nt have to have an american medical liscense! yah! Dr. Akmhehede that practiced on cows can do your surgery.

[Trigg]

No doctor in the western world makes as little as a plumber. Do you think I was born yesterday?
Good for your sister.
Dude, I've got news for you. If you work for the US healthcare system, you work in a for-profit system. That's how our system is set up. HMOs don't get rich by providing care for everyone who files a claim with them. That's what's f*cked up about our system. If you have a medical emergency and you also pay to have an HMO, you should be covered. But that's not always the case. Many, many claims are denied and people are forced to pay out of pocket, which throws them into debt. And if they have cronic problems, their health also declines due to their inablity to pay for care. And if you can't even afford to have an HMO? You're f*cked. Because if you can't afford to pay a monthly premium, you sure as hell can't afford to pay for medical costs.

I have yet to start cussing at you, what's wrong can't debate without hurling insults????



"There are also big differences in pay for European doctors, depending on the country in which they practise. In Finland, monthly income of a senior physician (specialist) is 2998-3994 (£2017-2687, $3765-5015), while in Ireland the average yearly income of a specialist is 133, 051. "Young German doctors like to go to Great Britain or to Switzerland because of the pay and the way colleagues communicate," says Merte Bosch. She adds: "We do not think that the income of doctors will change because of a larger EU and as we do not have enough doctors, we do not feel that doctors from Poland or other countries could be a threat."

In Denmark, consultants and practising medical specialists (praktiserende special-læger) have an average yearly income of DKK 780 000 (104 000), while doctors in training and staff specialists have an average yearly income of DKK 456 000 (60 800).

A third of (younger) Lithuanian doctors would like to practise medicine abroad. This is understandable when you compare European salaries with those of Lithuanian doctors, who earn on average Lt737 (214) a month.

These differences will be bigger with the new member countries and might be the main reason behind a suspected migration towards the countries with higher incomes. Malta is one of the accession states with the highest incomes. The maximum wage of a senior registrar working in Malta is 2000 a month. Even so, "many junior doctors move to the UK because of better salaries and better career prospects," says Martin Balzan. He adds: "Once Malta joins the EU, it is expected that more junior doctors who have completed membership/fellowship will move for higher specialist training in the UK, and as the salary structure and the career prospects are much better, most are expected to settle in the UK. The net outflow is expected to worsen with EU accession."

[theHawk]

If you work for the US healthcare system, you work in a for-profit system.

Thats a pretty lame argument to use for promoting "government" health care.
In order for our health care system to be entirely non-profit then the government would have to take over not only all the hospitals, but the pharmaceutical companies, and take over every single vendor that provides supplies, and every single company that makes equipment that hospitals and doctors use.
So what you're talking about is the government taking over a huge section of the private sector. If not, if any part of our health care system isn't taken over by government, then it will still be a "for-profit" system. And if you think that just by making hospitals government owned is going to save money then think again. Private companies get away with murder when dealing with the federal government in their contracts. The quality of service simply goes down the toilet when companies do business with the government, believe me, I see it everyday.
Take it from someone who has worked for the federal government for the last decade, you don't want something as important as health care being run by the government....

[Hagbard Celine]

I have yet to start cussing at you, what's wrong can't debate without hurling insults????



"There are also big differences in pay for European doctors, depending on the country in which they practise. In Finland, monthly income of a senior physician (specialist) is 2998-3994 (£2017-2687, $3765-5015), while in Ireland the average yearly income of a specialist is 133, 051. "Young German doctors like to go to Great Britain or to Switzerland because of the pay and the way colleagues communicate," says Merte Bosch. She adds: "We do not think that the income of doctors will change because of a larger EU and as we do not have enough doctors, we do not feel that doctors from Poland or other countries could be a threat."

In Denmark, consultants and practising medical specialists (praktiserende special-læger) have an average yearly income of DKK 780 000 (104 000), while doctors in training and staff specialists have an average yearly income of DKK 456 000 (60 800).

A third of (younger) Lithuanian doctors would like to practise medicine abroad. This is understandable when you compare European salaries with those of Lithuanian doctors, who earn on average Lt737 (214) a month.

These differences will be bigger with the new member countries and might be the main reason behind a suspected migration towards the countries with higher incomes. Malta is one of the accession states with the highest incomes. The maximum wage of a senior registrar working in Malta is 2000 a month. Even so, "many junior doctors move to the UK because of better salaries and better career prospects," says Martin Balzan. He adds: "Once Malta joins the EU, it is expected that more junior doctors who have completed membership/fellowship will move for higher specialist training in the UK, and as the salary structure and the career prospects are much better, most are expected to settle in the UK. The net outflow is expected to worsen with EU accession."

Nowhere have I insulted you. Cursing and hurling insults are two very different things. And what's your point in this post? That doctors from lower-paying countries are moving to higher-paying countries? Big surprise there. I knew you were going to blow my socks off, but wow.

-See that? That was kind of an insult.

[Hagbard Celine]

Thats a pretty lame argument to use for promoting "government" health care.
In order for our health care system to be entirely non-profit then the government would have to take over not only all the hospitals, but the pharmaceutical companies, and take over every single vendor that provides supplies, and every single company that makes equipment that hospitals and doctors use.
So what you're talking about is the government taking over a huge section of the private sector. If not, if any part of our health care system isn't taken over by government, then it will still be a "for-profit" system. And if you think that just by making hospitals government owned is going to save money then think again. Private companies get away with murder when dealing with the federal government in their contracts. The quality of service simply goes down the toilet when companies do business with the government, believe me, I see it everyday.
Take it from someone who has worked for the federal government for the last decade, you don't want something as important as health care being run by the government....

Making a profit on supplies and goods isn't a problem. The problem is that care itself has been turned into a commodity that can be bestowed or denied based on an insurance carrier's policy. That's not right. In essence, we've given corporations the right to say yea or nay when we ask them for healthcare. They're playing God man!

[darin]

The more I read about your ideals, HB, the more I see people like you would damn our civilization to destruction. Your values lead to death, pain, and hurt, and yet those who hold those values are too blind to see it.

[theHawk]

Making a profit on supplies and goods isn't a problem. The problem is that care itself has been turned into a commodity that can be bestowed or denied based on an insurance carrier's policy. That's not right. In essence, we've given corporations the right to say yea or nay when we ask them for healthcare. They're playing God man!

Oh, so suddenly its doesn't matter if its a "pro-profit" system. The only real problem is the insurance policies. Well thats something I think we can all agree on. I don't see how or why we'd need a government takeover of health care to fix that(as if it would). What we need to do is change the laws to allow people to shop and buy whatever insurance they want, much like car insurance. In short, we need to remove the government restrictions on health insurance, not apply more.

[Trigg]

Nowhere have I insulted you. Cursing and hurling insults are two very different things. And what's your point in this post? That doctors from lower-paying countries are moving to higher-paying countries? Big surprise there. I knew you were going to blow my socks off, but wow.

-See that? That was kind of an insult.

The point was sparky the Dr's in those WONDERFUL European countries are making only a smig over 100,000 a year. If you READ the article it says these are salaries for specialists, staff physicians are making $60,000 PER YEAR. So yes about as much as a plumber.


Take the time to read down at the end of the post where it says "The net outflow is expected to worsen with EU accession."

That means a doctor shortage, unless they start paying more....go ahead guess how they start getting paid more..........that's right the gov. raises taxes to pay for it.....who pays those taxes????????? THE CITIZENS!!!!!!!!!

[Hagbard Celine]

The more I read about your ideals, HB, the more I see people like you would damn our civilization to destruction. Your values lead to death, pain, and hurt, and yet those who hold those values are too blind to see it.

What values? Life, Liberty, Happiness and the pursuit thereof? Just because I don't subscribe to you bizarre religious ideals doesn't mean I'm a bad person dmp.

If "damning our civilization to destruction" means making health care more efficient, less expensive for all and more effective, then by God bring it on.

If "damning our civilization to destruction" means having your loving God reign brimstone down on our citizens and turn women into pillars of salt, then...well maybe I'd just like to see that. Hell, I'd buy tickets to a show like that.

"damning our civilization to destruction." You're such a drama queen dmp.

[darin]

But the ideas you have would DESTROY Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness.

You have ideas which would make health care even LESS efficient, and MORE expensive for all.

[red states rule]

So right now all of England and France and Canada and Norway and etc. all have longer life spans and better health than US residents because their government healthcare systems don't work? Riiiiight. Can you guys mail me some of what you're smoking?

Tell us again how great the health care system is in England.............


Hard-up hospital orders staff: Don't wash sheets - turn them over
by DANIEL MARTIN - More by this author »

Last updated at 23:22pm on 13th April 2007
Cleaners at an NHS hospital with a poor record on superbugs have been told to turn over dirty sheets instead of using fresh ones between patients to save money.

Housekeeping staff at Good Hope Hospital in Sutton Coldfield, have been asked to re-use sheets and pillowcases wherever possible to cut a £500,000 laundry bill.

Posters in the hospital's linen cupboards and on doors into the A&E department remind workers that each item costs 0.275 pence to wash.

Good Hope reported a deficit of £6million last year and was subject to a report by the Audit Commission because of its poor financial standing.

It recorded 36 cases of MRSA from April last year to January, while cases of clostridium difficile have more than doubled in less than a year to 327. A Government hit squad was drafted in to solve the infection problems last year but the trust is still failing to hit MRSA targets.

Tony Field, chairman of Birmingham-based MRSA Support, said: 'Is that all the safety of a patient's life is worth? 0.275 pence?

'It is utterly disgraceful and tantamount to murder because hygiene like changing sheets is essential to protect patients.

'It proves beyond all doubt that cost- cutting is directly contributing to hospital acquired infections.'

A Good Hope spokesman said the posters went up around two years ago and should all have been taken down by now. But a medic insisted the posters were still on display in A&E and the maternity unit as recently as the past month.

'It is clear the trust is encouraging staff to "top 'n' tail" used sheets on a bed instead of replacing them between patients,' said the health worker, who did not wish to be named.

'The very nature of A&E should be enough reason to change sheets between every patient as casualty sees patients who have come in with a variety of infections, traumatic injuries and blood spill.'

Conservative healthvehealth spokesman John Baron said: 'This sounds ludicrous and is a real cause for concern given that MRSA is such a problem in our hospitals.

'This matter needs to be investigated at a higher level. Patient safety must never be compromised.'

Liberal Democrat health spokesman Norman Lamb said: 'If we are to beat healthcareacquired infections we need the highest possible standards of cleanliness. The idea of turning over sheets like this is extraordinary and scandalous.'

The scheme is one of many ways that cash- strapped trusts are trying to save money.

In January, staff at West Hertfordshire NHS Trust were amazed to receive a memo urging them to save £2.50 a day by prescribing cheaper medicines, reducing the number of sterile packs used, cutting hospital tests and asking patients to bring drugs in from home.

Epsom and St Helier Trust in South London has removed every third light bulb from corridors.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1774

[Nukeman]

Tell us again how great the health care system is in England.............


Hard-up hospital orders staff: Don't wash sheets - turn them over
by DANIEL MARTIN - More by this author »

Last updated at 23:22pm on 13th April 2007
Cleaners at an NHS hospital with a poor record on superbugs have been told to turn over dirty sheets instead of using fresh ones between patients to save money.

Housekeeping staff at Good Hope Hospital in Sutton Coldfield, have been asked to re-use sheets and pillowcases wherever possible to cut a £500,000 laundry bill.

Posters in the hospital's linen cupboards and on doors into the A&E department remind workers that each item costs 0.275 pence to wash.

Good Hope reported a deficit of £6million last year and was subject to a report by the Audit Commission because of its poor financial standing.

It recorded 36 cases of MRSA from April last year to January, while cases of clostridium difficile have more than doubled in less than a year to 327. A Government hit squad was drafted in to solve the infection problems last year but the trust is still failing to hit MRSA targets.

Tony Field, chairman of Birmingham-based MRSA Support, said: 'Is that all the safety of a patient's life is worth? 0.275 pence?

'It is utterly disgraceful and tantamount to murder because hygiene like changing sheets is essential to protect patients.

'It proves beyond all doubt that cost- cutting is directly contributing to hospital acquired infections.'

A Good Hope spokesman said the posters went up around two years ago and should all have been taken down by now. But a medic insisted the posters were still on display in A&E and the maternity unit as recently as the past month.

'It is clear the trust is encouraging staff to "top 'n' tail" used sheets on a bed instead of replacing them between patients,' said the health worker, who did not wish to be named.

'The very nature of A&E should be enough reason to change sheets between every patient as casualty sees patients who have come in with a variety of infections, traumatic injuries and blood spill.'

Conservative healthvehealth spokesman John Baron said: 'This sounds ludicrous and is a real cause for concern given that MRSA is such a problem in our hospitals.

'This matter needs to be investigated at a higher level. Patient safety must never be compromised.'

Liberal Democrat health spokesman Norman Lamb said: 'If we are to beat healthcareacquired infections we need the highest possible standards of cleanliness. The idea of turning over sheets like this is extraordinary and scandalous.'

The scheme is one of many ways that cash- strapped trusts are trying to save money.

In January, staff at West Hertfordshire NHS Trust were amazed to receive a memo urging them to save £2.50 a day by prescribing cheaper medicines, reducing the number of sterile packs used, cutting hospital tests and asking patients to bring drugs in from home.

Epsom and St Helier Trust in South London has removed every third light bulb from corridors.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1774

Welcom to the future of American health care if HIllary gets her way!!!!!!!

[red states rule]

Welcom to the future of American health care if HIllary gets her way!!!!!!!

Libs hate articles like these - it shows what governemnt run health care is all about