Another Russian poisoned in the UK ...

[mundame]

No - judging by what I've seen, it couldn't have solely been a UK-Russian deal. My understanding is that the US certainly played a part in it. At minimum, the FBI cooperated with us, which they could've only done, as a domestic-based organisation, if ordered to by a higher US authority ....

I think this report confirms it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636



The UK will certainly take some sort of stance against Russia, once official confirmation of a Russian origin for the nerve agent is released. We're told it was a 'rare' agent ... meaning it may well be possible to track its exact origin, maybe even the very laboratory which produced it. What official response we come up with may not be much, in international terms, but it will be something.

Perhaps we'd do what Trump has attempted regarding N Korea, and call upon other powers to ally with us in a common cause ... maybe yet more sanctions ? Or, maybe we'll order Russian diplomats out of our territory. I don't know.

Anyway, our media tells us that UK-Russian relations are now in 'a deep freeze'. In fact, the BBC aired, just minutes ago, a commentary-programme suggesting that Russia was heading for diplomatic isolation from the West as a whole.

I think that Russia really did mean, primarily, to send an 'oppose Putin, ever, and see what it brings you' message to other Russians. I think it was simply that. However .. Russian arrogance is such that foreign lives mean very little to them. Therefore, they've no human constraints upon the method of execution they use. Besides ... the greater the loss of life, the greater the media coverage will be of it. Russia, in sending its message, may rely upon that extent of coverage, and so will work to maximise it.

Ouch --- I see what you mean about there being some sort of American connection. Murky. Thanks, there's nothing about that here, that I've seen. I hope it wasn't in any way our fault.

I wonder if perhaps you may find the very laboratory --- we did, with that anthrax attack shortly after 9/11. Unluckily it turned out to be Maryland's own Fort Detrick, where we are really NOT supposed to be doing biowarfare [sigh]. Well, that was embarrassing. I worked at another Army base at the time, not much if any cleaner, and have always assumed since, knowing how things really work, that it was a Muslim janitor hired by a maintenance company, who just slipped the vial in his pocket. There was only one vial, a very small amount. Killed a bunch of people, though. For awhile we were all afraid of a five-gallon bucket of the stuff.

I should think the relations between Britain and Russia would be in a "deep freeze"! They are certainly making a habit of this sort of thing. Casus belli is such a problem issue in these days. Hostile powers can sneak in so many subtle attacks it is hard to respond to. The days of "Tora, Tora" when hundreds of Japanese planes flew in bombing, with red suns painted under their wings, are over. Still, it's difficult to imagine who else besides Russia could have spread that nerve agent around, especially after the radiation death. Talk about a pattern!

[Drummond]

Ouch --- I see what you mean about there being some sort of American connection. Murky. Thanks, there's nothing about that here, that I've seen. I hope it wasn't in any way our fault.

I wonder if perhaps you may find the very laboratory --- we did, with that anthrax attack shortly after 9/11. Unluckily it turned out to be Maryland's own Fort Detrick, where we are really NOT supposed to be doing biowarfare [sigh]. Well, that was embarrassing. I worked at another Army base at the time, not much if any cleaner, and have always assumed since, knowing how things really work, that it was a Muslim janitor hired by a maintenance company, who just slipped the vial in his pocket. There was only one vial, a very small amount. Killed a bunch of people, though. For awhile we were all afraid of a five-gallon bucket of the stuff.

I should think the relations between Britain and Russia would be in a "deep freeze"! They are certainly making a habit of this sort of thing. Casus belli is such a problem issue in these days. Hostile powers can sneak in so many subtle attacks it is hard to respond to. The days of "Tora, Tora" when hundreds of Japanese planes flew in bombing, with red suns painted under their wings, are over. Still, it's difficult to imagine who else besides Russia could have spread that nerve agent around, especially after the radiation death. Talk about a pattern!

I see no reason at all to attribute any measure of blame on the US !! Blame where it's DUE.

We shall see where this precisely leads. News reports we get, give the impression of information being drip-fed to the general public. We'll get more news when our Government releases it .. i.e when they're ready to. They've already conducted two 'COBRA' meetings about this issue (COBRA meetings are at Governmental level; they happen in order to address security and 'emergency' issues that arise, as & when they do ..).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4663369.stm

[Drummond]

This is reminiscent of the Litvinenko poisoning, with Polonium, where traces of it were found as environmental contaminants afterwards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43360420

Traces of the nerve agent used against former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, have been found at the restaurant where they ate on Sunday afternoon, the BBC understands.

The substance was found in one part of Zizzi in Salisbury during a continuing forensic examination.

The pair were found two hours after finishing their meal collapsed on a park bench. Both are critically ill.

No-one who was in the restaurant at the same time is thought to be in danger.

There is also no suggestion that anyone dining at the time had anything to do with the nerve agent.

The restaurant is currently surrounded by a large screen while an investigation continues inside.

Whoever did this was criminal enough, indeed, TERRORIST enough, not to care about the wellbeing of anyone unconnected with the target(s) of this assassination attempt, and was happy to endanger those innocent people. This much is surely abundantly clear.

[Drummond]

Just seen this latest report. @Balu is, as ever, invited to comment ....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...d=tmg_share_fb

Theresa May is expected to announce sanctions against Russia as soon as Monday as pressure mounted on her to take “meaningful” action against Vladimir Putin over the Salisbury poisoning case.

The Prime Minister is expecting to receive confirmation from the Ministry of Defence’s Porton Down laboratory over the weekend that Russia was, beyond reasonable doubt, the source of the nerve agent used in the attempted murder of former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

.. ah, but, Balu, 'it's all anti-Russian Western propaganda' .... eh ?

Given the accuracy of the report -- Balu has one of two positions, short of outright denial, he can take.

1. Admitting that Russia IS fully responsible for the nerve agent's deployment, and assassination attempt.

2. Admitting that Russia was the supplier to - i.e the enabler of - WHATEVER TERRORIST(S) hold responsibility for perpetrating this TERRORIST INCIDENT on British territory (... since the agent was deployed as a chemical weapon, in a public place, on our soil).

[Drummond]

This helps to illustrate the criminal recklessness, the sheer contempt for human life, the perpetrators (I think the description TERRORISTS applies !) had ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43362673

Up to 500 Salisbury pub-goers and diners have been told to wash possessions as a precaution after nerve agent traces were found.

Trace amounts of the substance used to poison ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were found at the Mill pub and Zizzi restaurant.

Prof Dame Sally Davies, the chief medical officer for England, said the risk of harm was "low".

The advice applies to anyone in either venue after 13:30 on Sunday.

People who were at either venue before closure on Monday are advised to do the following:

Clothes should be washed, ideally in a washing machine

Clothes which cannot be washed, for example if they need dry cleaning, should be double bagged in plastic until further notice

Mobile phones, handbags and other electronic items should be wiped with baby wipes, which should be bagged in plastic and put in the bin

Other items such as jewellery and glasses should be washed with warm water and detergent

Hands should be washed after the handling of any items suspected of being contaminated.

Dame Sally said after "rigorous scientific analysis" there was some concern that prolonged exposure over weeks and months could cause health problems but it was "not a subject for panic".

[Drummond]

Some hours ago, Theresa May announced in the House of Commons that the nerve agent used in Salisbury was of Russian origin. It has been identified, and the particular agent used has ONLY ever been produced in Russia.

She has given the Russian Embassy until midnight, Tuesday (our time, of course) to find some way of credibly 'explaining' its use on British soil.

See ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43377856

Former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were poisoned by a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, Theresa May has told MP's.

The PM said it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack.

The Foreign Office summoned Russia's ambassador to provide an explanation.

Mrs May said if there is no "credible response" by the end of Tuesday, the UK would conclude there has been an "unlawful use of force" by Moscow.

The chemical used in the attack, the PM said, has been identified as one of a group of nerve agents known as Novichok.

Mrs May said: "Either this was a direct action by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of its potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others."

So ... did Russia order the attack ? Or, did they release it (the chemical agent) to others ? If the latter ... then, given that we're talking about a chemical weapon deployed in a civilian town, with civilians in range, we are talking about an action which amounts to a terrorist act.

This, if that's the truth of this, shoots Russia's 'We're against terrorists' propaganda completely to hell.

I look forward to @Balu, or any passing chum of his, trying to explain any of this.

[Gunny]

Some hours ago, Theresa May announced in the House of Commons that the nerve agent used in Salisbury was of Russian origin. It has been identified, and the particular agent used has ONLY ever been produced in Russia.

She has given the Russian Embassy until midnight, Tuesday (our time, of course) to find some way of credibly 'explaining' its use on British soil.

See ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43377856



So ... did Russia order the attack ? Or, did they release it to others ? If the latter ... then, given that we're talking about a chemical weapon deployed in a civilian town, with civilians in range, we are talking about an action which amounts to a terrorist act.

This, if that's the truth of this, shoots Russia's 'We're against terrorists' propaganda completely to hell.

I look forward to @Balu, or any passing chum of his, trying to explain any of this.

That kind of narrows it down, doesn't it?

[aboutime]

That kind of narrows it down, doesn't it?

She is just pretending to be OBAMA, and drawing a Red Line she can't support, like Obama did in Syria.
Remember. LADY MAY doesn't like President Trump, she can't even LIFT "A BIG STICK!"

Obama must be her advisor in waiting. Hidden from view as he tries to Gather U.K. members of ACORN for contributions to the demise of the U.K, and U.S.A.

[Gunny]

She is just pretending to be OBAMA, and drawing a Red Line she can't support, like Obama did in Syria.
Remember. LADY MAY doesn't like President Trump, she can't even LIFT "A BIG STICK!"

Obama must be her advisor in waiting. Hidden from view as he tries to Gather U.K. members of ACORN for contributions to the demise of the U.K, and U.S.A.

I really don't know much about her other than she appears to not be real popular. Kind of dumb to levy an ultimatum if she's not going to back it up.

[Drummond]

She is just pretending to be OBAMA, and drawing a Red Line she can't support, like Obama did in Syria.
Remember. LADY MAY doesn't like President Trump, she can't even LIFT "A BIG STICK!"

Obama must be her advisor in waiting. Hidden from view as he tries to Gather U.K. members of ACORN for contributions to the demise of the U.K, and U.S.A.

Theresa May agrees with some of what President Trump stands for, and disagrees with some of it, too.

Mrs May is our Conservative Prime Minister. I grant you, she won't look much like one, compared to Trump. But I honestly think she does her best to advance a Conservative agenda, in a society which has gone much further down a Socialist road than the US has, to date.

We have our 'Brexit' to conclude ... our separation from the EU. Mrs May was a Conservative who personally voted to 'Remain' in the EU. Despite this ... she now leads the effort to get us the best trading deal possible with the EU to make our exit work as well for us as possible.

As a 'Remain' supporter, she could've done what Cameron before her did, and resign her job rather than respect the result of our Referendum. But she has done the opposite. The Referendum was never legally binding, yet, she's determined to respect the result of it, despite her own feelings about it.

[Drummond]

I really don't know much about her other than she appears to not be real popular. Kind of dumb to levy an ultimatum if she's not going to back it up.

I'm sure some of that will have been Left-wing propaganda. She leads a minority Government ... she got less support in our last election than anyone thought she'd get. Even so, her detractors thought she'd have to quit in a matter of weeks. But she's still our PM, almost a YEAR later. So she can't be all THAT unpopular, otherwise, she'd have been ousted, somehow.

Our media reckon that if the Russians don't give her a 'satisfactory' answer to all this, pronto (God knows what a satisfactory one could be !!), she'll do her best to apply pressure. One option being considered is that, as this a case of a chemical weapon unlawfully (i.e criminally and hostilely) used against our territory, it could be passed to NATO for joint agreement on action to be taken.

[Taco Junkie]

I think it was English food that killed em....

[Gunny]

I'm sure some of that will have been Left-wing propaganda. She leads a minority Government ... she got less support in our last election than anyone thought she'd get. Even so, her detractors thought she'd have to quit in a matter of weeks. But she's still our PM, almost a YEAR later. So she can't be all THAT unpopular, otherwise, she'd have been ousted, somehow.

Our media reckon that if the Russians don't give her a 'satisfactory' answer to all this, pronto (God knows what a satisfactory one could be !!), she'll do her best to apply pressure. One option being considered is that, as this a case of a chemical weapon unlawfully (i.e criminally and hostilely) used against our territory, it could be passed to NATO for joint agreement on action to be taken.

Sounds like a slap on the wrist and some meaningless sanctions if it goes the NATO route.

Is it me, or does everyone else know NATO is about as pointless as it gets? Putin is hardly going to give a crap what NATO says.

[Drummond]

I think it was English food that killed em....

Spotted Dick is delicious, I promise you.

Ever tried black pudding .. ?




How about Steak & Kidney pies ?

It surprised me, when I visited New York, to find that Americans associated pies so exclusively with sweet fillings, such as cherry pie, etc etc. Never, so far as I could see, do you use meat fillings for them. A pity, IF that's true ... you miss a lot ...

...no. My guess is that Russian chemical nerve agents definitely detract from the succulent dishes to be found in Salisbury, and elsewhere. Something to do with the preparation, maybe ?

[Gunny]

We have "pot pie". Usually beef, chicken or turkey, with mixed vegetables and a broth, with a complete crust. Traditional American is apple and cherry. Pumpkin pie was probably the first. apple and cherry probably began as tarts. People here like stuff with enough sugar to rot your teeth out in a single bite. Coconut cream is my favorite. I stay strictly away from it.

We don't eat haggus though and I doubt you'll find anyone that will