WATCH: U.K.-Russian Relations At Stake In Probe Of Former Russian Spy Poisoning

[Drummond]

I already posted one before seeing your latest post above, as it happened. It should serve to adequately answer you.

What do you mean, you'll be considered a liar ?? I thought, er'm, all Russians told the truth ? .....

Let me make this point, though. WE, in the UK, have been subjected to an assassination attempt on our soil (and it's not as though this is the only one we've ever suffered ... !) that involved the use of a weapon so toxic that it was highly capable of harming nearby civilians.

Tell me. If the Russian side is so innocent, so NON-hostile to us ... why is it that absolutely nobody on your side of the fence has shown us any degree of sympathy ?

Don't misunderstand me -- I'm not asking for any ! But I do find it 'curious' that, if Russia is 'innocent', how it is that they display such massive arrogance that to express sympathy never enters their heads. To me, this betrays the truth ... Russia IS fundamentally hostile to us.

Here's a link from the BBC. It's a very full account on this whole subject. Scroll down far enough, though, and you'll see this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43377698

Russia's UN ambassador has insisted that development work on Soviet-era nerve agents stopped in 1992, and that existing stockpiles were destroyed in 2017.

In September 2017, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) confirmed the full destruction of the 39,967 metric tons of chemical weapons possessed by Russia.

Moscow has denied any involvement in the Skripals' poisoning and demanded proof.

A former head of Russia's secret police told local media that Novichok could have been stored in any of the former Soviet states - pointing the finger at Ukraine.

A sample is to be sent to the OPCW - the independent international body set up to stop chemical warfare - for analysis.

It called the use of a chemical agent in Salisbury "extremely worrying" in a tweet, adding that "those found responsible for this must be held accountable for their actions".

Chemical weapons expert Hamish de Bretton-Gordon called for the OPCW to be allowed to visit the Russian town where he alleged the nerve agent was made.

"The only other people who could perhaps make Novichoks, if they had the blueprint to do it, would be [DSTL at] Porton Down in the UK, perhaps the US, maybe the French," he said, but added, "I have it on very good authority that Novichoks were only ever made in Shikhany in central Russia."

It's interesting.

It took several days for Russia to suggest any possibility of the Novichok agent existing anywhere else but Russia.

But, I ask: if the effort to destroy them was to have any point to it at all, how can it be that stocks were kept back on any other territory ?

I have but one conclusion to draw ... that Russia deliberately deceived the OPCW at the time of those 'total stock destructions'. In truth, not all were destroyed. In truth, the intention was to keep aside spare stocks.

If true, this shows how dangerously maverick the Russian State really is.

Doesn't it ?

[Drummond]

Doesn't sound like I'd last very long before getting slapped with a "hate speech" summons

... and arrested .. and jailed ?

Such is the stranglehold Socialist social engineering has managed to achieve in our society, that this can happen.

It's an illustration of just how very dangerous it is to let Left winger-types govern you, or wield any degree of decisive power.

[Gunny]

We have yet to release evidence ... I think ! I'm not sure, because to now have the support of America, France and Germany, all of whom have issued a joint statement between them accepting Russia's culpability .. strongly suggests that cooperation in the release of evidence has been going on behind the scenes.

That notwithstanding, as you'll see from my other posting, we WILL submit a sample to a UN body highly capable of competently adjudicating the matter: namely, the OPCW.

'Rude peasants'. An interesting way of characterising Russian expressiveness ! When applied to us ... well, there are certain times when politeness somehow seems inappropriate. When a chemical weapon has been deployed in a civilian environment, on your own territory, perchance ??

Still -- I thank you for your post. It's very refreshing to see a Russian posting here who's willing to keep an open mind. It's appreciated.

My take on it is this: as a combat troop, I find the use of poison and other such chicanery cowardly. When I show up, it's to fight the enemy, not drop dead from drinking his tea. I feel the same about these knuckleheads using biological and chemical weapons even in combat. If you can't fight, just stay home. All you prove by using poison to me is you can't hang.

I find this ex-spy being poisoned surreal, as I have posted before. I agree with polite russian's sentiment that he can't believe anyone was dumb enough to do it. Sounds like a bad spy novel. In this day and age why anyone would think they could get away with something so obvious and grade-school simple beats me.

And let's take it a step further. What does anyone have to gain from it? Revenge? An emotion-based reaction that usually backfires and requires pointless and needless risk. I don't really think the UK stands to gain anything by making a false accusation. No one's going to admit to it. So there it will stand until the next thing comes along.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Ridiculous, isn't it ??

I fully take your point.

Such is the power of political correctness as the UK knows it. Our Left wing has created such a rigid social climate that to so much as publicly openly express such a criticism will have the person demonised as a racist, or worse. To hell with commonsense. To hell, in fact, with opening your eyes and seeing for yourself exactly what's going on ....

It's not QUITE what you're talking about ... however, I offer this link as an example of the British State's intolerance towards citizens seen to be conducting 'hate crime' ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43320121

Note the emphasis the court considered appropriate in highlighting the fact of Muslims being involved, in determining not only a verdict, but in assessing the sentences arrived at.

Public criticism of persons based upon religious faith is actually perceivable as a crime here.

I didn't know islam was a "race."

And it's pretty strange that people would find talk about radicals in their nation that don't assimilate and are causing sheer terror raping and killing as hate speech. I call that insane.

[Drummond]

My take on it is this: as a combat troop, I find the use of poison and other such chicanery cowardly. When I show up, it's to fight the enemy, not drop dead from drinking his tea. I feel the same about these knuckleheads using biological and chemical weapons even in combat. If you can't fight, just stay home. All you prove by using poison to me is you can't hang.

I find this ex-spy being poisoned surreal, as I have posted before. I agree with polite russian's sentiment that he can't believe anyone was dumb enough to do it. Sounds like a bad spy novel. In this day and age why anyone would think they could get away with something so obvious and grade-school simple beats me.

And let's take it a step further. What does anyone have to gain from it? Revenge? An emotion-based reaction that usually backfires and requires pointless and needless risk. I don't really think the UK stands to gain anything by making a false accusation. No one's going to admit to it. So there it will stand until the next thing comes along.

Taken in dispassionate terms, sifting the facts from a logical perspective, you'd have to conclude that a Russian action to chemically poison persons or an environment was thoroughly stupid. It SHOULDN'T make sense to think that they were responsible.

Unfortunately ... a mindset that gets fired up to commit political 'adventurism' of an empire building nature, such as the annexation of Crimea was, is, a mindset that is far from logical, sensible, decent, reasonable. We in the West always underrate the sheer arrogance that fuels Russian thinking. Putin wants power. He'll seize it. Why ? Because he wants it. Just that. Is he playing a dangerous game ? He doesn't much care if he is. He wants power, so he'll ruthlessly do what it takes to acquire what he wants.

Given the truth of all that, we can conclude two things:

1. Putin will always do what the hell he wants. It doesn't have to be reasonable - it just has to be wanted. That's ALL.

2. We always, in the West, underestimate Russian arrogance. Massively so. I genuinely believe we cannot conceive of just how it dominates Russian thinking.

I think Putin's a maniac. He's a permanent danger to the world at large.

[aboutime]

I happily predict that RUSSIA is about to do a repeat performance of the REAGAN program that DESTROYED the Former Soviet Union.
Putin is messing with the WRONG GUY in Trump. Trump is RE-Building our Military, and PUTIN won't be able to keep up...stealing food, and services from the people....like Gorbechev did before the BERLIN WALL came down, and the Economy in USSR failed.

Putin needs to get a refresher, and see that there is NO Clinton, Bush, or Obama to fool anymore by threatening us. Trump isn't worried about OFFENDING Putin like the previous presidents did.

[Gunny]

Taken in dispassionate terms, sifting the facts from a logical perspective, you'd have to conclude that a Russian action to chemically poison persons or an environment was thoroughly stupid. It SHOULDN'T make sense to think that they were responsible.

Unfortunately ... a mindset that gets fired up to commit political 'adventurism' of an empire building nature, such as the annexation of Crimea was, is, a mindset that is far from logical, sensible, decent, reasonable. We in the West always underrate the sheer arrogance that fuels Russian thinking. Putin wants power. He'll seize it. Why ? Because he wants it. Just that. Is he playing a dangerous game ? He doesn't much care if he is. He wants power, so he'll ruthlessly do what it takes to acquire what he wants.

Given the truth of all that, we can conclude two things:

1. Putin will always do what the hell he wants. It doesn't have to be reasonable - it just has to be wanted. That's ALL.

2. We always, in the West, underestimate Russian arrogance. Massively so. I genuinely believe we cannot conceive of just how it dominates Russian thinking.

I think Putin's a maniac. He's a permanent danger to the world at large.

I think he's a danger to the world if he actually keeps pushing and crosses swords with Trump. I think because of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the end of the Cold War, Putin doesn't dare back down and like him or not, agree with it or not, Trump just won't. That's why I think Trump has officially ignored for the most part Putin's baiting.

What Putin thinks he stands to gain beats the Hell out of me. Trump's not going to back down. He may as well not have that in his list of possible outcomes. Putin is in the same position as the US, and neither leader seems willing to accept the simple fact that neither country can take on the entire world and win. I'm not sure who all Putin has pissed off, but i don't think Trump has left out anyone

While I chuckle about it, in real terms it's a dangerous game and it isn't going to take much but the wrong move even by accident to set off a powderkeg. In which case on the Muslims will win. They'll get to die for Allah.

[Papokarlo]

Really? I heard differently. From a Russian.

most of the population Russia would like Trump to be the President
we have many people celebrated his victory
It's the truth

[Papokarlo]

... Then this may enlighten you, Papokarlo --

Here's what I think galvanised our British Government to decide to act through the OPCW ... this, from a Russian delegate ...

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/14/...pal-poisoning/



Considering that WE, in the UK, are the victims here (!!!) .. I find the Russian's language arrogant in the extreme. You must feel 'proud' of your man's use of language, this to a country the victim of a chemical attack !!

... Still ... that point notwithstanding; this is where, according to this separate statement, we now stand:

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/...on-former-spy/



You'll note from this how well we understand the methodologies your Russian leaders employ. Just days, too, before the Russian election ?

if there is no exit then Russia sends a letter to the OPCW, we have been asking for evidence from you for two weeks, we have been asking for public discussion of this case. But Britain's got everything to hide. In this case, we ask the third-party organization, the OPCW decided our dispute. But the British never sent samples of gas "Novichok" in this organization. I will once again give this video in which we have been calling on Britain for two weeks to resolve our dispute through third-party organizations, in an open form, in the presence of the press.

[Papokarlo]

I've already posted what your own RT Today station has reported. According to them, Britain is sending a sample of the chemical agent to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

I'm still waiting for a link to the RT channel...

[Gunny]

I'm still waiting for a link to the RT channel...

I'm betting he's going to get up in the middle of the night just for you . This is a message board, not real time. Wait for your answer. I'm pretty sure what you are "waiting for" has already been presented. Demanding a response now to something you KNOW is, by design, going to be dragged out for months if not years is a typical tactic for those who have no real defense for their stance.

I agree with drummond that most do not understand your arrogance. But I can smell it. It's a weakness and a weapon to easily use against you. For one so sure no one can figure you out you sure run a simple game.

[Papokarlo]

I'm betting he's going to get up in the middle of the night just for you . This is a message board, not real time. Wait for your answer. I'm pretty sure what you are "waiting for" has already been presented. Demanding a response now to something you KNOW is, by design, going to be dragged out for months if not years is a typical tactic for those who have no real defense for their stance.

I agree with drummond that most do not understand your arrogance. But I can smell it. It's a weakness and a weapon to easily use against you. For one so sure no one can figure you out you sure run a simple game.

it turns out that you make decisions without evidence and accuse Russia. it would be appropriate if it were third world countries where sentences are handed down without trial. but you consider yourself the most civilized country, the center of the world, an exceptional nation. I think Nations like you should act under international law. and draw conclusions after the investigation. I know it will take five years and how you always say that you were wrong, so it was with Iraq(remember Colin Powell showed a test tube with a chemical substance) you have it in Iraq is not found. Bombed the whole country. Then he said that it was a mistake. Not too many mistakes are you doing?

[Papokarlo]

under international law, Britain must cooperate in this situation. But Britain refuses to do so. We have been insisting for two weeks on joint cooperation and open cooperation. We are ready but Britain is not.

[Gunny]

under international law, Britain must cooperate in this situation. But Britain refuses to do so. We have been insisting for two weeks on joint cooperation and open cooperation. We are ready but Britain is not.

Incorrect. Great Britain is under no obligation to acquiesce to Russia's demand. Only a fool would let the person they are accusing of perpetrating a crime be the arbiter.

Besides being a bunch of wimps, the UN is about as impartial an arbiter as anyone is going to get. Y'all need to stop thumping your chests and making demands. The rest of the world doesn't answer to you.

[Papokarlo]

Incorrect. Great Britain is under no obligation to acquiesce to Russia's demand. Only a fool would let the person they are accusing of perpetrating a crime be the arbiter.

Besides being a bunch of wimps, the UN is about as impartial an arbiter as anyone is going to get. Y'all need to stop thumping your chests and making demands. The rest of the world doesn't answer to you.

It is in Britain's interest to conduct a joint investigation so as not to be unfounded. if Britain does not agree, this method of Britain discredits itself