Here we go...National Guard at Border May Be Armed for Self Defense ....

[LongTermGuy]

ForBloggingOutLoud))



May be Armed, they MUST be Armed


National Guard at Border May Be Armed for Self Defense

************************************************** ************
Members of the Texas National Guard wait for Gov. Greg Abbott to speak about security on the Mexico-U.S.

border on April 12 at Sergeant Tomas Garces Texas Army National Guard Armory in Weslaco, Texas. (Loren

Elliott/Reuters)



National Guard troops at the U.S.-Mexico border could be armed for self-defense purposes when they are deployed there, the head of the U.S. Border Patrol told reporters.

Chief Ronald Vitiello told reporters the decision on whether to arm the trooper will be left to the governors of each border state, especially if those troops are on missions that might force them to defend themselves,

https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/national-guard-armed-border-self-defense/2018/04/17/id/854881/

[revelarts]

um, anybody Got any Constitution to go with that domestic deployment of military troops within the border?

I didn't say "excuses" "wants" or "fears" I said constitution.
and please don't give me some strained definition of "invasion" unless you want troops to shoot every man woman and child they see approaching the U.S..

(sadly i suspect some of you would love that though. It'd be great video for the left news... and Trumps next run. "Mexican kids shot dead by U.S. troops". What kind of nightmares will the troops have after that crap?)

[darin]

um, anybody Got any Constitution to go with that domestic deployment of military troops within the border?

I didn't say "excuses" "wants" or "fears" I said constitution.
and please don't give me some strained definition of "invasion" unless you want troops to shoot every man woman and child they see approaching the U.S..

Happens all the time after natural disasters. What does the constitution say about domestic deployment of the military? Do you know how Posse Comitatas may or may not apply to National Guard Soldiers when within their state?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

um, anybody Got any Constitution to go with that domestic deployment of military troops within the border?


I didn't say "excuses" "wants" or "fears" I said constitution.
and please don't give me some strained definition of "invasion" unless you want troops to shoot every man woman and child they see approaching the U.S..

(sadly i suspect some of you would love that though. It'd be great video for the left news... and Trumps next run. "Mexican kids shot dead by U.S. troops". What kind of nightmares will the troops have after that crap?)

If there is justification to have troops there then certainly is justification for them to be properly armed to defend themselves.
And that means with loaded weapons not empty ones.
They are not Federal troops.......
They are being deployed under the order of the States/governors.
And yes, they should be shooting the drug-smugglers...as they the smugglers are killing our kids with their damn poison.
Rev. , why arent you showing any sympathy for the many thousands of dead American victims, many of them innocent kids ??
And now you do not have to -- ""suspect""--, as I say what I mean openly and fear no man..--Tyr

[revelarts]

Happens all the time after natural disasters. What does the constitution say about domestic deployment of the military? Do you know how Posse Comitatas may or may not apply to National Guard Soldiers when within their state?

Seriously, "national emergency"? really?
Aren't we really just trying to do basic immigration control here. but it seem like every president STRAINS the use of legal terms to get more control,
Why not just call marshall law ... you know ... since it a "national emergency" and be done with the pretense of a constitution that constrains the president at all.
Then they can just take our guns too.
Add military to the cops and immigration folks already on the street checking Ids "papers please" .

I'm sorry but i just weary of the left and the right straining EVERY fear/"concern" they have into a "NATIONAL EMERGENCY" so the gov't and military can exercise more power and take away more rights.

--LOOK there's another school shooting! --WE Have to take guns away! look Australia did it! it's for the Children! the CHILDREN AHHHH!---
--LOOK there's another illegal Mexican with MY job... or MY Welfare! --we have to put military troops on the boarder to defend us from INVASION!, its a National emergency LIKE a HURRICANE, it's for the Children! AAHHHHH!--

And i'm like, What the H3ll

---"well cough, i'm not afraid i'm just very "concerned" and we "HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

Say sincere folks on the left and the right.

But every "something" they propose pisses on our freedoms, our laws and constitution.
And both sides are FINE with it as long as they "FEEL" SAFER.

like i said i'm tried of it. It literally turns my stomach man.

[Gunny]

Seriously, "national emergency"? really?
Aren't we really just trying to do basic immigration control here. but it seem like every president STRAINS the use of legal terms to get more control,
Why not just call marshall law ... you know ... since it a "national emergency" and be done with the pretense of a constitution that constrains the president at all.
Then they can just take our guns too.
Add military to the cops and immigration folks already on the street checking Ids "papers please" .

I'm sorry but i just weary of the left and the right straining EVERY fear/"concern" they have into "NATIONAL EMERGENCY" so the gov't and military can exercise more power and take away more rights.

--LOOK there's another school shooting! --WE Have to take guns away! look Australia did it! it for the Children! the CHILDREN AHHHH!---
--LOOK there's another illegal Mexican with MY job... or MY Welfare! --we have to put military troops on the boarder to defend us from INVASION!, its an National emergency LIKE a HURRICANE, AAHHHHH!--

And i'm like What the H3ll

---"well cough, i'm not afraid i'm just very "concerned" and we "HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

says sincere folks on the left and the right.

And every "something" they propose pisses on our freedoms, our laws and constitution.
And both sides are FINE with it as long as they "FEEL" SAFER.

like i said i'm tried of it. It literally turns my stomach man.

you're so smart. Man the fuck up and take him on, rev. I got popcorn and time.

[Elessar]

um, anybody Got any Constitution to go with that domestic deployment of military troops within the border?

I didn't say "excuses" "wants" or "fears" I said constitution.
and please don't give me some strained definition of "invasion" unless you want troops to shoot every man woman and child they see approaching the U.S..

(sadly i suspect some of you would love that though. It'd be great video for the left news... and Trumps next run. "Mexican kids shot dead by U.S. troops". What kind of nightmares will the troops have after that crap?)

You trot out 'Constitution' with every single issue that you are ignorant of and do not bother
to educate yourself about.

National Guard is under STATE Control unless federalized. They have NOT been federalized
for these missions.

Yes, they have a right to self-defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._United_States

"All members of the National Guard of the United States are also members of the militia of the United States as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 246."
There is Federal Law! USC (US Code of Federal Regulations) is recognized Federal Law. There is your 'Constitution'

[Black Diamond]

You trot out 'Constitution' with every single issue that you are ignorant of and do not bother
to educate yourself about.

National Guard is under STATE Control unless federalized. they have NOT been federalized
for these missions.

Yes, they have a right to self-defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._United_States

"All members of the National Guard of the United States are also members of the militia of the United States as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 246."

I am curious. Was national guard federalized for Iraq war?

[Elessar]

I am curious. Was national guard federalized for Iraq war?

Yes it was. It has to be in order to be deployed and augment federal troops.

[revelarts]

You trot out 'Constitution' with every single issue that you are ignorant of and do not bother
to educate yourself about.
National Guard is under STATE Control unless federalized. they have NOT been federalized
for these missions.
Yes, they have a right to self-defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._United_States
"All members of the National Guard of the United States are also members of the militia of the United States as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 246."

So how exactly does the president with the DOD ORDER the troops and the governors to put troops on the boarder Elesar?
If the States are in FULL control why are Trump and feds calling the shots?
Is that another legal problem?

Look it's weird to me that many on the right supposedly see immigration as a horrible problem of simply "breaking the law" but don't mind "breaking the law" to fix it.

But OK let's say it's as dire a problem as many say it is. it's a freakin' "national disaster" level issue. An Invasion!
Drastic measure must be taken!!!
OK fine.

Trump is commander and chief of the arm forces and he's the head of ICE, Immigration, the boarder patrol, the FBI and several other agencies that deal with boarder security and immigration.
Why not ask or even order (if possible) 10,000 or 20,000 troops to switch from military service to federal jobs in the proper agencies that handle boarder security and immigration?
Get them the proper training and authority to capture, arrest, detain, process and deport. (as well as of course defend themselves).
If it's such a dire emergency and all that.

By definition the National Guard is not a permanent solution to anything. Most of those guys and gals have regular jobs right? It's unfair to them. As well as being inefficient, since they have no real training or legal authority to arrest or do anything really BUT defend themselves.

Am i talking crazy here?

Just seems to me the federal order is a lame (as well as illegal) distraction from not being able to get the wall going.
And if the problem on the boarder is a LACK of MANPOWER in the proper agencies, then just fill out the agencies somehow becasue .. well it's just a national disaster right?

[Elessar]

National Guard is trained in riot and crowd control.

They are paid the equal of active duty paygrades.

Trump REQUESTED and did NOT ORDER the Guard to support
the security of the border states. The final decision to send them comes
from the state government, when not Federalized.

[revelarts]

"National Guard is trained in riot and crowd control."
Yes and many other military functions but not domestic U.S. boarder patrol, police work, or immigration work.

Plus if they are going to skirt the law they aren't going to be able to much of anything but OBSERVE the boarder.
And maybe train some boarder patrol guys in how to drive a jeep, use a military firearm or fly a helicopter and the like.

It's not going to be much real help.
Again it seem more like something for "show" rather than a real solution , it's not even a temporary one.

[jimnyc]

I hope they're locked and loaded. If anyone comes to our border making demands of entry and other demands, deny them entry. No need to have an itchy trigger finger, but if they don't take no for an answer, and try to get physical, then locked and loaded baby!!

But I'd be happy to see some ass kickin's given out to anyone thinking they can barge or demand their way in.

[CSM]

"National Guard is trained in riot and crowd control."
Yes and many other military functions but not domestic U.S. boarder patrol, police work, or immigration work.

Plus if they are going to skirt the law they aren't going to be able to much of anything but OBSERVE the boarder.
And maybe train some boarder patrol guys in how to drive a jeep, use a military firearm or fly a helicopter and the like.

It's not going to be much real help.
Again it seem more like something for "show" rather than a real solution , it's not even a temporary one.

Just to clear up a few things.... National Guardsmen have many skill sets applicable to border control that range from logistics, communications, command and control of operations of all types, intelligence gathering and analysis, guarding and transporting prisoners, feeding, engineering and construction and a host of other skills. US military personnel employ a host of skills beyond shooting bullets and catching incoming fire....

[revelarts]

Just to clear up a few things.... National Guardsmen have many skill sets applicable to border control that range from logistics, communications, command and control of operations of all types, intelligence gathering and analysis, guarding and transporting prisoners, feeding, engineering and construction and a host of other skills. US military personnel employ a host of skills beyond shooting bullets and catching incoming fire....

Yes i know I've lived around and worked with military, army, navy and airforce.
But boarder patrol/immigration is by definition domestic law enforcement, ANY of those military skill sets used to that end by the national guard would be in defiance of the posse comitatus.
breaking the law.

if they happen to be on the boarder observing and someone approaches the boarder then they can "defend themselves" but beyond that they have no legal authority or specific training.