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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    It's "cite" not sight, tired of seeing that "typo". Sorry, pet peeve of mine, sue .

    The entire thing has been written and rewritten on this website many times for you. I quoted the portions necessary to make the point. There is NOTHING in the entire resolution that remotely overrides the ability of the president to let congress know, then take matters into his executive power for 60 days, and then would need to return to them in 60 days if any plans of going further. There is nothing, nada, zilch in this resolution that will change that.

    Please don't try and act all educated because I purposely spelled out things for you that you FAIL to comprehend, no matter how many times the resolution is shown to you, no matter how many people and no matter how explained.

    You can micro-quote until your head explodes, pick away til your head explodes, declare that so many presidents have been wrong til your head explodes and how certain individuals side with you un... you get the point.

    MY only point is making it clear once again, not to debate with you. The debate has done many a times and many a folks debated you and schooled you. You just keep coming back thinking you know better. You don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by War Powers Resolution
    PURPOSE AND POLICY

    SEC. 2.
    (a) It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.

    (b) Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

    (c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances,
    are exercised only pursuant to
    (1) a declaration of war,
    (2) specific statutory authorization, or
    (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
    ....
    Jim, the parts of the resolution that you cited are subject to the above conditions.
    why don't you include this in your reading. it's part of the law as well. .
    You should not ignore it.
    Heck Even Bush didn't for Iraq. He got congress to authorize that.

    But Obama and Trump have ignored it.
    hmm, I guess people like you and Trump ARE just like Obama.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  2. #32
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    Congress woman Tulsi Gabbard ask Mattis about the War Powers Act BEFORE Trump had decided to Drop bombs on Syria:

    GABBARD: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for your service. You know, the President has indicated recently his intention to launch U.S. military attacks against Syria. Article one of the Constitution gives Congress the sole power to declare war. Congress has not done so against the Syrian government. Section 3 of the War Powers Resolution requires the president to consult with Congress before introducing U.S. Armed Forces into situations of hostilities. Section 2 of the War Powers Resolution clarifies the constitutional powers of the President as commander-in-chief. In article 2, which you referenced, Secretary Mattis, to introduce forces into hostilities
    only pursuant to
    1.) a declaration of war,
    2.) specific statutory authorization or
    3.) a national emergency created by an attack upon the U.S., its territories, possessions or Armed Forces.

    Syria’s not declared war against the U.S. or threatened the U.S. The launch of 59 missiles against Syria by Trump last year was illegal and did not meet any of those criteria in the War Powers Resolution. The consolidated Appropriations Act of 2018 which was signed into law by President Trump states that none of the funds made available by this Act may be used with respect to Syria in contravention of the War Powers Resolution, including for the introduction of U.S. Armed Military Forces into hostilities in Syria.

    My question is, will the President uphold the Constitution, the War Powers Resolution, and comply with the law that he signed – that he signed – by obtaining authorization from Congress before launching U.S. military attacks against Syria?

    MATTIS: Congresswoman, we have not yet made any decision to launch military attacks into Syria. I think that when you look back at President Obama sending the U.S. troops into Syria at the time he did, he also had to deal with this type of situation. Because we were going after a named terrorist group that was not actually named in the AUMF that put them in. This is a complex area, I’ll be the first to admit.

    GABBARD: It is it is simple, however, what the Constitution requires. So while you’re correct in saying the President has not yet made a decision, my question is will he abide by the Constitution and comply with the law?


    the obvious and HONEST answer should have been,
    NO. no he won't.
    Last edited by revelarts; 05-07-2018 at 06:24 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Jim, the parts of the resolution that you cited are subject to the above conditions.
    why don't you include this in your reading. it's part of the law as well. .
    You should not ignore it.
    Heck Even Bush didn't for Iraq. He got congress to authorize that.

    But Obama and Trump have ignored it.
    hmm, I guess people like you and Trump ARE just like Obama.
    Because it's been quoted for Mr. Unable To Comprehend a few to tens of times before. You act as if something was being hidden, as if you somehow are unable to read or "cite" things your own "educated" self.

    And the part you speak of, is for entering US armed forces into hostilities. There are no such forces currently in Syria.

    Goodnight, you bore me.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Congress woman Tulsi Gabbard ask Mattis about the War Powers Act BEFORE Trump had decided to Drop bombs on Syria:

    GABBARD: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for your service. You know, the President has indicated recently his intention to launch U.S. military attacks against Syria. Article one of the Constitution gives Congress the sole power to declare war. Congress has not done so against the Syrian government. Section 3 of the War Powers Resolution requires the president to consult with Congress before introducing U.S. Armed Forces into situations of hostilities. Section 2 of the War Powers Resolution clarifies the constitutional powers of the President as commander-in-chief. In article 2, which you referenced, Secretary Mattis, to introduce forces into hostilities
    only pursuant to
    1.) a declaration of war,
    2.) specific statutory authorization or
    3.) a national emergency created by an attack upon the U.S., its territories, possessions or Armed Forces.

    Syria’s not declared war against the U.S. or threatened the U.S. The launch of 59 missiles against Syria by Trump last year was illegal and did not meet any of those criteria in the War Powers Resolution. The consolidated Appropriations Act of 2018 which was signed into law by President Trump states that none of the funds made available by this Act may be used with respect to Syria in contravention of the War Powers Resolution, including for the introduction of U.S. Armed Military Forces into hostilities in Syria.

    My question is, will the President uphold the Constitution, the War Powers Resolution, and comply with the law that he signed – that he signed – by obtaining authorization from Congress before launching U.S. military attacks against Syria?

    MATTIS: Congresswoman, we have not yet made any decision to launch military attacks into Syria. I think that when you look back at President Obama sending the U.S. troops into Syria at the time he did, he also had to deal with this type of situation. Because we were going after a named terrorist group that was not actually named in the AUMF that put them in. This is a complex area, I’ll be the first to admit.

    GABBARD: It is it is simple, however, what the Constitution requires. So while you’re correct in saying the President has not yet made a decision, my question is will he abide by the Constitution and comply with the law?


    the obvious and HONEST answer should have been,
    NO. no he won't.
    The true and honest answer would be abiding by the war powers resolution set forth in 1973. It was followed, each time used, and you don't care for that. Boo Hoo. That's constitutional. Write your congressman or write for office to make changes if you disagree.

    And save it about you care more about this or that BS. You've been schooled many times by Nighttrain, looking back on this, that I almost feel sorry for repeating things he's already made clear to you. You even ask pretty much the same questions, and demand answers to things clearly spelled out in the law for you. Again, don't like the resolution, write your congressman, but as of now, they are acting legally, and have acted legally.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  5. #35
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    Even easier, since you apply the COTUS - have it brought to the supremes and declared unconstitutional. There's a thought!
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Because it's been quoted for Mr. Unable To Comprehend a few to tens of times before. You act as if something was being hidden, as if you somehow are unable to read or "cite" things your own "educated" self.
    And the part you speak of, is for entering US armed forces into hostilities. There are no such forces currently in Syria.
    Goodnight, you bore me.
    No Armed Forces?
    really? So who exactly fired those missiles? Not the U.S. Navy and/or the U.S. Airforce?
    Aren't they considered "armed forces" anymore?

    Or are you saying that the Missiles weren't "ARMED", they just fell and didn't explode?
    Oh wait, you said you SAW them hit targets and explode. you were bragging about it to the Russian poster.
    So they were "ARMED" then.
    Or are you saying that shooting people with Missiles really isn't "hostile"?

    And BTW, as a matter of fact, there ARE at least 2000 U.S. troops on the ground in Syria.
    At least 500 were there while Obama was in office Trump bumped the numbers or "disclosed" the numbers as 2000+.
    So even IF the war powers act applied. he'd be far over the limited becasue they've been in Syria the whole time Trump's been in office!

    So Sorry anyway you cut it, the Syria attack last moth AND last year and the troops on the ground in Syria this whole time were and are ILLEGAL. A clear Unconstitutional over reach of powers..

    (I know "Obama did t too! so why now? I complained about a boatload list of unconstitutional Obama acts, would you like me to bore you with those again ... wiretapping the country without warrants, killing Americas without trial, Attacking and killing Qaddafi, made up immigration laws, Obamacare are always tops on my list would you like more...?
    But the thing is Trump is President now he supposed to be 100 times BETTER than OBAMA right Jim, well he's WORSE were Syria's concerned so far.)
    Last edited by revelarts; 05-07-2018 at 07:22 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Even easier, since you apply the COTUS - have it brought to the supremes and declared unconstitutional. There's a thought!
    Ok, constitutional just like Obamacare and DACCA and everything else he did.
    the courts haven't dealt any of that either so.
    everything Obama did MUST be constitutional as well.

    So if we have to wait for the Supremes to be brought in then ANYTHING the presidents do, As long as the SCOTUS lets them do it ,is OK by you.
    fine.
    Obama and Trump and Bush are all in the CLEAR.
    at least that's an fairly honest answer.
    kind of hypocritical since you've claimed many of Obama's actions unconstitutional as well as I, but it is fairly honest.
    At least more honest than claiming that the wording of the laws and COTUS says Attacking Syria or Obama's immigration Executive orders, spying, killing etc align with the text and spirit of the laws and constitution.
    Last edited by revelarts; 05-07-2018 at 07:19 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  8. #38
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    Are you saying that you are an idiot?

    Why yes you are.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Ok, constitutional just like Obamacare and DACCA and everything else he did.
    the courts haven't dealt any of that either so.
    everything Obama did MUST be constitutional as well.

    So if we have to wait for the Supremes to be brought in then ANYTHING the presidents do, As long as the SCOTUS lets them do it ,is OK by you.
    fine.
    Obama and Trump and Bush are in the CLEAR.
    at least that's an fairly honest answer.
    kind of hypocritical since you've claimed many of Obama's actions unconstitutional as well as I, but it is fairly honest.
    At least more honest than claiming that the wording of the laws and COTUS says Syria or Obama's immigration Executive orders, spying, killing etc align with the text and spirit of the laws and constitution.
    Blabbity blabbity blabbity.

    And it's DACA.

    and yeah, they're all Gods.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  10. #40
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    Default For REV and petey, with gabby looking on...

    REV....you sound more like OBAMA, every time you post here lately....

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi.../#4c2c350f7667Opinion

    DEC 23, 2013 @ 03:38 PM 409,474 2 Free Issues of Forbes
    President Obama's Top 10 Constitutional Violations Of 2013




    Capital Flows , CONTRIBUTOR
    Guest commentary curated by Forbes Opinion. Avik Roy, Opinion Editor.
    Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.
    English: President Barack Obama shakes hands w...
    (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

    By Ilya Shapiro

    One of Barack Obama’s chief accomplishments has been to return the Constitution to a central place in our public discourse.

    Unfortunately, the president fomented this upswing in civic interest not by talking up the constitutional aspects of his policy agenda, but by blatantly violating the strictures of our founding document. And he’s been most frustrated with the separation of powers, which doesn’t allow him to “fundamentally transform” the country without congressional acquiescence.

    But that hasn’t stopped him. In its first term, the Administration launched a “We Can’t Wait” initiative, with senior aide Dan Pfeiffer explaining that “when Congress won’t act, this president will.” And earlier this year, President Obama said in announcing his new economic plans that “I will not allow gridlock, or inaction, or willful indifference to get in our way.”


    And so, as we reach the end of another year of political strife that’s fundamentally based on clashing views on the role of government in society, I thought I’d update a list I made two years ago and hereby present President Obama’s top 10 constitutional violations of 2013.

    1. Delay of Obamacare’s out-of-pocket caps. The Labor Department announced in February that it was delaying for a year the part of the healthcare law that limits how much people have to spend on their own insurance. This may have been sensible—insurers and employers need time to comply with rapidly changing regulations—but changing the law requires actual legislation.

    Recommended by Forbes
    2. Delay of Obamacare’s employer mandate. The administration announced via blogpost on the eve of the July 4 holiday that it was delaying the requirement that employers of at least 50 people provide complying insurance or pay a fine. This time it did cite statutory authority, but the cited provisions allow the delay of certain reporting requirements, not of the mandate itself.

    3. Delay of Obamacare’s insurance requirements. The famous pledge that “if you like your plan, you can keep it” backfired when insurance companies started cancelling millions of plans that didn’t comply with Obamacare’s requirements. President Obama called a press conference last month to proclaim that people could continue buying non-complying plans in 2014—despite Obamacare’s explicit language to the contrary. He then refused to consider a House-passed bill that would’ve made this action legal.

    4. Exemption of Congress from Obamacare. A little-known part of Obamacare requires Congressmen and their staff to get insurance through the new healthcare exchanges, rather than a taxpayer-funded program. In the quiet of August, President Obama directed the Office of Personnel Management to interpret the law to maintain the generous congressional benefits.

    5. Expansion of the employer mandate penalty through IRS regulation. Obamacare grants tax credits to people whose employers don’t provide coverage if they buy a plan “through an Exchange established by the State”—and then fines employers for each employee receiving such a subsidy. No tax credits are authorized for residents of states where the exchanges are established by the federal government, as an incentive for states to create exchanges themselves. Because so few (16) states did, however, the IRS issued a rule ignoring that plain text and allowed subsidies (and commensurate fines) for plans coming from “a State Exchange, regional Exchange, subsidiary Exchange, and federally-facilitated Exchange.”

    6. Political profiling by the IRS. After seeing a rise in the number of applications for tax-exempt status, the IRS in 2010 compiled a “be on the lookout” (“BOLO”) list to identify organizations engaged in political activities. The list included words such as “Tea Party,” “Patriots,” and “Israel”; subjects such as government spending, debt, or taxes; and activities such as criticizing the government, educating about the Constitution, or challenging Obamacare. The targeting continued through May of this year.

    7. Outlandish Supreme Court arguments. Between January 2012 and June 2013, the Supreme Court unanimously rejected the Justice Department’s extreme positions 9 times. The cases ranged from criminal procedure to property rights, religious liberty to immigration, securities regulation to tax law. They had nothing in common other than the government’s view that federal power is virtually unlimited. As a comparison, in the entire Bush and Clinton presidencies, the government suffered 15 and 23 unanimous rulings, respectively.

    8. Recess appointments. Last year, President Obama appointed three members of the National Labor Relations Board, as well as the head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, during what he considered to be a Senate recess. But the Senate was still holding “pro forma” sessions every three days—a technique developed by Sen. Harry Reid to thwart Bush recess appointments. (Meanwhile, the Dodd-Frank Act, which created the CFPB, provides that authority remains with the Treasury Secretary until a director is “confirmed by the Senate.”) In January, the D.C. Circuit held the NLRB appointments to be unconstitutional, which ruling White House spokesman Jay Carney said only applied to “one court, one case, one company.”

    9. Assault on free speech and due process on college campuses. Responding to complaints about the University of Montana’s handling of sexual assault claims, the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights, in conjunction with the Justice Department, sent the university a letter intended as a national “blueprint” for tackling sexual harassment. The letter urges a crackdown on “unwelcome” speech and requires complaints to be heard in quasi-judicial procedures that deny legal representation, encourage punishment before trial, and convict based on a mere “more likely than not” standard.

    Page 1 / 2 Continue


    Continued from page 1

    10. Mini-DREAM Act. Congress has shamelessly failed to pass any sort of immigration reform, including for the most sympathetic victims of the current non-system, young people who were brought into the country illegally as children. Nonetheless, President Obama, contradicting his own previous statements claiming to lack authority, directed the Department of Homeland Security to issue work and residence permits to the so-called Dreamers. The executive branch undoubtedly has discretion regarding enforcement priorities, but granting de facto green cards goes beyond a decision to defer deportation in certain cases.

    It was hard to limit myself to 10 items, of course—Obamacare alone could’ve filled many such lists—but these, in my judgment, represent the chief executive’s biggest dereliction this year of his duty to “preserve, protect, and defend” the Constitution, and to “take care that the law be faithfully executed.”

    Alas, things may get worse before they get better. New presidential “counselor” John Podesta’s belief in governance by fiat is no secret; in a 2010 report, he wrote that focusing on executive power “presents a real opportunity for the Obama administration to turn its focus away from a divided Congress and the unappetizing process of making legislative sausage.”
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

  11. Likes jimnyc liked this post
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    That's just the tip of the iceberg AT - don't forget Fast and Furious, Lynch indiscretions, Holder in contempt, Now Obama and his FBI and these FISA warrants, that somehow seem to keep from being fully investigated. The Clinton foundation and then coverage and help for Hillary. The scandals, that Obama said none happened during his terms, were more than aplenty. And some didn't see a whole lot of them, even though they've been covered quite extensively - even if some have avoided criminal charges. So far.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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  14. #42
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    Same Question came up during Obama Admin.
    then Sen. Sessions had the right idea at the time.
    He said the president needs to get congressional authorization. so maybe you need to educate him too.
    "the ONLY legal authority for the military to actions are the Congress and the President and the law and the constitution."

    Leon Panetta, You, Obama Trump and Bush only think it's President... and maybe NATO and the U.N..

    Last edited by revelarts; 05-07-2018 at 07:44 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    I don't care if Sessions or Panetta or Ron Paul or Kucinich - the president, covering a few bases, has the authority via the war powers act, to act with authority for 60 days, then must seek congressional approval or a declaration of war for further hostilities. It's been used - and again as you read - 159 presidents have used it or went to various military actions. No charges. And again, until the SC declares it unconstitutional, it will remain used LEGALLY as it has been and the more than majority agree in congress over the years.

    Nighty night.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

  16. #44
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    Default Agreed Jim

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    That's just the tip of the iceberg AT - don't forget Fast and Furious, Lynch indiscretions, Holder in contempt, Now Obama and his FBI and these FISA warrants, that somehow seem to keep from being fully investigated. The Clinton foundation and then coverage and help for Hillary. The scandals, that Obama said none happened during his terms, were more than aplenty. And some didn't see a whole lot of them, even though they've been covered quite extensively - even if some have avoided criminal charges. So far.
    Betcha, the rev will ignore all of what we are saying. He knows Obama lied more than a carpet across the country. But, like Obama...keeps on going back to dig up BUSH to blame him, and distract from the Obama Destruction of America.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    That's just the tip of the iceberg AT - don't forget Fast and Furious, Lynch indiscretions, Holder in contempt, Now Obama and his FBI and these FISA warrants, that somehow seem to keep from being fully investigated. The Clinton foundation and then coverage and help for Hillary. The scandals, that Obama said none happened during his terms, were more than aplenty. And some didn't see a whole lot of them, even though they've been covered quite extensively - even if some have avoided criminal charges. So far.
    sheesh.

    Ok so have the Supremes called him on any of that it yet Jim?
    If Not, BY YOUR STANDARDS, it all must be completely legal and constitutional.
    No charges brought against him right? Heck i guess, Hillary is completely innocent too! since she's not in jail. Or even been charged.

    But maybe we should call our congressmen to fix it?

    Last edited by revelarts; 05-07-2018 at 07:56 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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