The Popes New Level Of Disgrace To Written Biblical Scripture...

[revelarts]

you just wrote the whole solution. God puts homosexuality upon the same level as people who fuck around (king david), people who steal from others (tax collectors), greedy (progressives/liberals) and swindlers (obama, clinton). And then what happens?

You = all of us.
Were sactified = how? Through Christ.

Remember, at the end of time hell and sin and death are consumed by god's love (lake of fire) and through the process Christ's words are fullfilled:

You SHALL love the lord your god with all your heart mind and soul. You SHALL love your neighbors as yourselves. "shall love" sounds more like prophecy.

just as many were condemned - without their choice or action - in Sin through adam, in Christ ALL shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

The greek use the word pas for all, pas means "the whole, entire"

so - again, if we stop worrying about this shit and spend more time learning to Love, which is God, the better we and the world around us becomes.

I've imagined that in areas of public controversy, among Christians and/or the "pagans", a Pope could just quote or cite appropriate scripture without a word of commentary.
And let folks deal with it.
At that point it's not about "what the Pope said" it's up to people whether or not they will simply be honest about what the text says or if they are going to twist into pretzels trying to make it fit their agendas

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I've imagined that in areas of public controversy, among Christians and/or the "pagans", a Pope could just quote or cite appropriate scripture without a word of commentary.
And let folks deal with it.
At that point it's not about "what the Pope said" it's up to people whether or not they will simply be honest about what the text says or if they are going to twist into pretzels trying to make it fit their agendas

No man is supposed to either take away or add too the words in the Bible.

The Pope is making crap up, speaking as though he knows God better than the words in the Bible... that's blasphemy, and coming from the Pope, it's actually worse than that.

[Gunny]

No man is supposed to either take away or add too the words in the Bible.

The Pope is making crap up, speaking as though he knows God better than the words in the Bible... that's blasphemy, and coming from the Pope, it's actually worse than that.

Getting pissed off about it isn't changing a thing. The Pope is just another person with an opinion to me. Personally, I don't see why gets the media attention that he does. I don't see why the Catholic Church is placed on a pedestal. I don't see why it has the money it does and it has a rather nefarious past from the Inquisitions to the Crusades to Hitler.

But it does. Not any dummer than Jim Bakker. It is what it is.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Getting pissed off about it isn't changing a thing. The Pope is just another person with an opinion to me. Personally, I don't see why gets the media attention that he does. I don't see why the Catholic Church is placed on a pedestal. I don't see why it has the money it does and it has a rather nefarious past from the Inquisitions to the Crusades to Hitler.

But it does. Not any dummer than Jim Bakker. It is what it is.

Lots of stuff pisses me off, man... that's why I'm here... to VENT... ...

Yeah why does the catholic church have so much money? I don't think anyone even knows just how much. I thought "coveting" and "greed" were also things Christ taught against.

[Gunny]

Lots of stuff pisses me off, man... that's why I'm here... to VENT... ...

Yeah why does the catholic church have so much money? I don't think anyone even knows just how much. I thought "coveting" and "greed" were also things Christ taught against.

I look at the Pope coming on TV the same as I do the Royal Wedding. I don't. I have a remote control and lots of blue ray discs

[JakeStarkey]

OK so a few questions...
would the Pope tell a Serial Killer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Pedophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an unrepentant serial adulterer "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a Klepomanic "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a unrepentant wife beater "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell an "animal lover" "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"
would the Pope tell a necrophile "God made you that way and loves you as you are,"

Somehow i don't think so. Pressures of current social politics playing on this Pope much?
Maybe it's pressure of the homosexual and or pedophile Priest and Cardinals lobby in Rome?


Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, "neither do i condemn you, go and sin no more."
Paul said

...Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God...
Corinthians 6 -11

Seems to me folks -especially Christians- should take the words of Paul and Jesus OVER any preacher, Pope, "feelings" or pseudo-science that says anything otherwise.

Yes, God loves us All from Hitler to the kid that only stole a candy bar. but He doesn't gloss over sin. He die for them all.
Pretending that any of them are of God's making and they should go unaddressed is not what the Bible ask us to imply to "sinners".
neither has scripture asked us to make compromises with sin so we don't offend.
Jesus didn't say things that made everyone feel good about their sin did he? He died for them so we could bring them to him and LEAVE them at the cross. daily if we have to.

The issue of homosexuality always, of course, rests in the center of the argument whether nurture or nature. The examples above are choices by nature, I believe. I am not so sure same sex attraction, though. I have always been attracted to the opposite sex, never made a choice about it. Just was. I suspect that it is the same for homosexuals.

[revelarts]

@revelarts. @Abbey. David repented ???

Yep David repented, after the "sinophile" prophet Nathan ...lead by the Spirit of God... pointed out his sin to him CLEARLY.
David was quick to repent once he knew he'd done wrong. and never rebuffed those that pointed out his sins.

So deal with it. You take care of you, and I will take care of me. If EVERYONE does that, there'll be no problem.
And we'll STILL ALL be sinners.

Bible says were suppose to help each other out, like brothers and sisters. If you see someone telling your brother to take crack you warn your brother.
Darin is selling crack Gunny.

Except nothing we can do can save us. We are not saved by works (or lack of works) - that's a simple christian principle.

those verses are not about salvation, it's about pleasing God Today, and living like Jesus Today with our actions.

Yep. Because of the sinophiles - and i think you're one - are hyper-focused on shit that doesn't ultimately matter,

matters now because God says it does Darin. Simply as that.
can you show me the greek in scripture for "sinophile"

you are driving people away from loving relationships with God.

Ok who have i driven away Gunny? exactly or are you just making that up?
don't you like like reading scriptures?
I'm quoting the Bible, If that drives people away or makes them upset who has the problem.
People stoned Paul and left Jesus when he said things that were hard to hear as well.

I think you are the type of person who ....

I think we both should very glad that God is finally judging us, our motives and what we've REALLY done
rather than each of us making up crap about other people over a message board.

[gabosaurus]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphil...t-13ae949d6619

[High_Plains_Drifter]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphil...t-13ae949d6619

Wrong... God made PLENTY "dispensations"... but an especially strong one against homos...

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...887#post907887

[Gunny]

Yep David repented, after the "sinophile" prophet Nathan ...lead by the Spirit of God... pointed out his sin to him CLEARLY.
David was quick to repent once he knew he'd done wrong. and never rebuffed those that pointed out his sins.





Bible says were suppose to help each other out, like brothers and sisters. If you see someone telling your brother to take crack you warn your brother.
Darin is selling crack Gunny.


those verses are not about salvation, it's about pleasing God Today, and living like Jesus Today with our actions.


matters now because God says it does Darin. Simply as that.
can you show me the greek in scripture for "sinophile"


Ok who have i driven away Gunny? exactly or are you just making that up?
don't you like like reading scriptures?
I'm quoting the Bible, If that drives people away or makes them upset who has the problem.
People stoned Paul and left Jesus when he said things that were hard to hear as well.


I think we both should very glad that God is finally judging us, our motives and what we've REALLY done
rather than each of us making up crap about other people over a message board.

Aside from the fact I hate that expand-a-post BS one sentence at a time and don't read it, you could at least quote the right person.

You've quoted MY name with Darin's post which is now multi-sentences and multi-quotes..

[revelarts]

The issue of homosexuality always, of course, rests in the center of the argument whether nurture or nature. The examples above are choices by nature, I believe. I am not so sure same sex attraction, though. I have always been attracted to the opposite sex, never made a choice about it. Just was. I suspect that it is the same for homosexuals.

Well, those who confess to sexual attraction to animals and children also claim it came by nature.
Some people that are sadistic claim 'it's natural'. they've always "FELT" that way.
Most men will admit a natural temptation to adultery even if they don't act on it like a dog.
The choice comes in acting on natural urges. Not whether or not they are there.
Wanting to commit a murder is bad and sin of itself according to Jesus. But acting on it is a sin and a crime.
And the perp saying that "i was compelled by my nature to kill him" doesn't get them out of jail, maybe into a mental institution jail... but still.
And you certainly don't make murder, or other crimes, socially acceptable or legal for to those that insist sincerely that the urges come "naturally".

[revelarts]

God said "I am the God of all people. He did now make dispensations for any specific groups of people.
The original texts of the Bible do not condemn homosexuality. It is modern interpretations of Biblical text that cast the arrows. Look into it.

https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphil...t-13ae949d6619

Ok I read the article. And i'm sorry gabby but I'm not sure what they the writer thinks they've shown. they intially admit that there are 6 main verses that are are cited. And in each they basically say. something comes across to me like.

the Bible never uses the word "Pork" until recent modern translations. So that's the 1st important thing to know.
But Yes, it says 'Don't eat the meat of the pig it's sinful' but it's really about gluttony...trust me.
And Yes later on near the end, it says ' Eating the meat of the pig is wicked' there as well but there it's only REALLY talking about BACON not Roast Pork prepared properly. ...trust me.. this Pork chef who's also bible scholar say so.

sorry, all the arguments are lame and some even self refuting. He agrees with the Levitical prohibiting on sex with animals means exactly what it says and is true, but not the prohibition on homosexuality in the previous verse? Seriously?
the article writer is not being very honest it seems to me

the 6 verse cited are very clear. but 3 are all you need

Leviticus 18:22-23;
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion."

Leviticus 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them."

Romans 1:26–27
For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

Not to mention that NO where in the bible is a homosexual relationship endorsed, much less a homosexual marriage.
And each time homosexuality is referred to it's in a negative sense.
And the only kind of sexual activity that is endorsed and promoted in the Bible is within a heterosexual, monogamous Marriage. period.

Nothing else is promoted, everything else (fornication, incest, prostitution, concubines, adultery, multiple wives, rapes etc) is at best allowed/endured and worked arounded, at worse the people were killed for the misdeeds.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I see this thread has devolved into about something other than the Pope, so, have at it...

[Gunny]

Jews did not eat pork or shelfish because at the time there was no way to preserve the meat and it spoils fast and would poison people. Many of their religious laws are based on common sense of the times they lived in.

[darin]

"spend more time learning to Love" is great. BUT the problem with that is ...and the reason for much of Paul's letter is... that the people, EVEN IN the CHURCH, did not realize that their actions were wrong/"not loving".
That their actions were in fact sinful/unacceptable to God, and they should stop THAT activity
and spend more time Loving in godly ways.

Love is THE Godly way. No activity - be that prayer or preaching or swimming - will do things to impress God...not that God needs to be impressed to love people, because God shows mercy upon all, and everyone WILL love God with all their hearts minds and souls.

Ref: Luke 10:27; context - Guy asks Christ what he must 'do' to be saved. Christ asked him back: To love God and love our neighbors as much as we love ourselves. Chris replied: 7 He answered, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind’[a] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’[b]” 28 He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”

Let's define terms:
Love (Greek uses Agape): to love, value, esteem, feel or manifest generous concern for, be faithful towards; to delight in,
Shall: shall 1.(in the first person) expressing the future tense. "this time next week I shall be in Scotland" 2.expressing a strong assertion or intention.
Live (greek uses zao): has a few translations but one that most-applies here states: to be alive in a state of salvation from spiritual death

Greek doesn't have a word 'shall' in the passage, but it's implied to aid translation. Even without the word 'shall' - I think the voice of christ is clear: Loving God and Loving others; taking delight in both God and others; is the key to living and/or salvation. Pretty clear muslims who love God and love others are in-line with Christ's will, assuming their heart is pure and they aren't doing it to earn spiritual brownie points because Christ was also clear anyone who 'does those things' - like taking care of the sick and stuff - and if they don't know Love they are doing something for nothing.

Also seems to me, Soft peddling to a soft hearted person that already realizes that their actions are sinful is appropriate.
But soft peddling to someone who wants to believe that none of their actions are a problem, or who is genuinely UNAWARE they they are NOT acting in a loving way to others... by God's/Biblical standards... is counterproductive.
And allows them to believe they ARE serving/loving God with their actions when in fact they are not.
Allowing them to think/believe lies.

Allowing them to believe lies? Allowing it? God doesn't care that we should stop ALLOWING people to live apart from Love. Even people who are not Christians per se, but doing acts of Love are not to be chastised. When Christ was on the cross and he asked God to Forgive us because we don't know what they are doing, do you think he was talking only about the people who actually killed him, or was he talking about mankind - peoplekind if you're canadian - and the sins of the world?

Actions matter probably 1000% less than what's causing or driving the actions. Another case in point; Actions matter less:

Christ watched folks walk up and proudly put large sums of money into the church; then a poor widow giving just a couple pennies. Christ mentioned her saying "Check that shit out - She gave MORE than anyone, because she gave all she had."

Just then he looked up and saw the rich people dropping offerings in the collection plate. Then he saw a poor widow put in two pennies. He said, “The plain truth is that this widow has given by far the largest offering today. All these others made offerings that they’ll never miss; she gave extravagantly what she couldn’t afford—she gave her all!”

Luke 21 1-4
Doing big things - grandiose things matters FAR less than giving out of sincerity and love.

And in a public setting we don't know who's soft hearted, and who's ignorant, and who's looking for justification of whatever they do.
So IMO it seems more appropriate to give the WHOLE council, not only the side that allows people to "feel" better, no matter what they continue to do.

but it's not your call. That's not your charge. That's not your mission. Your mission is to learn to love people in real ways. That's it.

The message that Jesus, Peter, Paul and all the apostles past on was "Repent" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus for the forgiveness of all your sin. And become Sons and Daughters of God"
After we believe Paul and the others tell us how to walk the new life out, as in Thessalonians

4 ...As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong or take advantage of a brother or sister. The Lord will punish all those who commit such sins, as we told you and warned you before. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit...

So which do you believe; do you believe God will show mercy upon all, or is that part of the bible a lie? Do you believe 'it's not what we do' that 'saves us', but our hearts? Or is that a lie. Do you Believe Paul was calling those in the church to live a higher standard - out of their Love for god, or do you believe those guys behaving a certain way would lead to their spiritual death? And can anyone recover from spiritual death?

Let's go back to Corinthians 15:21-28

"Christ...after crushing the opposition, he hands over his kingdom to God the Father"

What is "his kingdom"? Has Christ done that yet - handed over his kingdom to God? I argue he has, because I believe - and you are free to disagree - heaven and hell are not bound by our linear constructs of time. In "His" universe/reality/whatever, everything that has been done is already done.

So again - what is "his kingdom"? Well, we know Christ took-hold of the keys to the gates of hell (Rev 1:18). Its logical to assume he has sole control of those gates; he stops folks from entering, as he's already cleared Hell out upon his descent, so stands to reason, anyone who was being 'punished' was given mercy. Regardless of what they "did" to deserve that punishment. God's judgement is Love wins.

Darin, seriously man, re-check what you're saying. we don't ignore or reject the instruction. it parts of the package. Promoting Love and personally holiness ...staying away from sin a defined by God. They are NOT contradictory or a distraction from "love" but a necessary compliment.

Your instruction is false teaching to me, because God doesn't care so much about sin; because Sin, as it manifests is not a lot more than 'things that make our life harder' mixed with 'things that distract us from God's GREATEST Commandment: "Loving Him AND loving our fellow man."

Personal Holiness. Man that reads a LOT like the ONLY PEOPLE Christ ever got pissed at...Pharisees. Let me give you some instruction - strike that - let Christ give you some instruction:

Luke 15-17 People brought babies to Jesus, hoping he might touch them. When the disciples saw it, they shooed them off. Jesus called them back. “Let these children alone. Don’t get between them and me. These children are the kingdom’s pride and joy. Mark this: Unless you accept God’s kingdom in the simplicity of a child, you’ll never get in.”

Tell me again how many Holy children exist. Tell me again how worried kids are about decorum; about beating up sinners; tell me how those who trust God like a child trusts their parents are spending time reminding people "Your actions will lead you to everlasting punishment - even though the bible is ambiguous at best that everlasting punishment exists. I guess it can exist from our standpoint, but outside our time stream there's a good chance 'everlasting punishment' is over. Remind me again how children are expected to love their parents (god) unconditionally, and their parents (god) love their kids unconditionally - except there are a shit-ton of conditions. Namely - unless you act righteous and proper I will torture you for all eternity until you die, then i will resurrect your soul within hell and keep torturing you because for the 70 years you were on earth, you didn't "Obey the law". Even though Christ fulfilled the law and brought Mercy to mankind, YOU didn't say the sinner's prayer!! You vermin. But i love you. Yes, Satan Won, because he has FAR MORE souls than I get. Yes, even though Christ descended into hell and holds the keys and all that - because we operate on EARTH's time stream/perspective, YOU missed out. Sorry you were born to late. Oh - and nevermind Hell and Death shall be NO MORE, you'll still be here...because when I had the guy write "Hell and Death will be no more" i was kidding.

If I know any Love, it's because of God, because God IS Love. Love IS the essence and nature of God. Love says "I love you more than you love me; I love you when you can do nothing for me; I love you to the point of sacrifice and salvation whether you know it or not.

See also: the book Memoirs of a Geisha. Possible spoilers in white text:


She had no idea of His hand in her life - she had no idea until the end, the man she loved was working to bring them together.

Its like that. A lot like that.

Plus - God is not willing ANY should perish, Mathew 18:14. Or is he? Is God willing that even the least of most souls - even just ONE will be lost to eternal torment? Either He is okay with it, or Christ is a liar in that parable.