It Doesn't Have To Be Blackmail-But Why The Idolizing?

[Kathianne]

You still want to pretend that the blame is equal to both parties, and it's not.

And it's also not the extreme left or the extreme right, it's simply conservatives in a battle against democrat corruption, lies and radicalization.

Evidently we're beating a dead horse here, because you won't see my POV, and I certainly can't see your's.

and you're claiming to be a mind reader, which you're not.

BTW, there's no 'pretending' that the battle is not where you've claimed it is.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

and you're claiming to be a mind reader, which you're not.

BTW, there's no 'pretending' that the battle is not where you've claimed it is.

Oh yes, there is, Kathy, and you denying there's no battle going between conservatives and the radical left is telling. Therein lies the problem with us trying to connect on even the smallest point.

[aboutime]

The battle is REAL, and taking place in reality for both me, and my wife.

We HAD good neighbor friends across the street for more than 20 years.
The day after Trump won, and they found out we voted for him.

THE FORMER FRIENDS, dropped us like hot potatoes. No more waving hello, no more conversations, no more sharing evenings around the barb...under the tree's.

Ugly looks, or intentional avoidance while outside has become the norm.

That is REAL. And the ignorance is getting deeper across this nation too!

[Kathianne]

Oh yes, there is, Kathy, and you denying there's no battle going between conservatives and the radical left is telling. Therein lies the problem with us trying to connect on even the smallest point.

I SAID that there would be clashes between the extremes. The problem with those on the extreme ends, they think everyone needs to follow their leads. There are too many willing to do that, on both sides. That is where the 'equivalencies are.' IMO, the only hope is there are actually a greater number in the middle, eventually willing to tell the extremists, "No."

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I SAID that there would be clashes between the extremes. The problem with those on the extreme ends, they think everyone needs to follow their leads. There are too many willing to do that, on both sides. That is where the 'equivalencies are.' IMO, the only hope is there are actually a greater number in the middle, eventually willing to tell the extremists, "No."

Well tell me, Kath... who are the extreme ones on the right? What have they done, and what is so extreme about them?

[Kathianne]

Well tell me, Kath... who are the extreme ones on the right? What have they done, and what is so extreme about them?

Look around. As with Obama, those that support 'he can do no wrong.' Even when proven that misspeaks weren't; truths were not quite; even honest mistakes are not acknowledged.

Birth certificates and tax returns come to mind-demands from the extremes. In both cases, much was made out of the issue before the elections, yet each WAS elected. In both cases, their enemies would not let go. The extremes are undermining our electoral system and are proud of it. Both sides have claimed the president has committed 'treason,' obviously without a clue to what it means, (though it's the only crime defined in the Constitution, as well as what is required to bring such a charge.)

I never thought I'd come to the conclusion that the system is failing and it's from within.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Look around. As with Obama, those that support 'he can do no wrong.' Even when proven that misspeaks weren't; truths were not quite; even honest mistakes are not acknowledged.

Birth certificates and tax returns come to mind-demands from the extremes. In both cases, much was made out of the issue before the elections, yet each WAS elected. In both cases, their enemies would not let go. The extremes are undermining our electoral system and are proud of it. Both sides have claimed the president has committed 'treason,' obviously without a clue to what it means, (though it's the only crime defined in the Constitution, as well as what is required to bring such a charge.)

I never thought I'd come to the conclusion that the system is failing and it's from within.

OK... one at a time... birth certificate, no doubt you're throwing that in there because of me, so how about you find me obama's real hard copy Hawaiian birth certificate. Prove to me I'm wrong, prove I'm "extreme." Then, I don't recall the right claiming obama committed treason. I don't remember seeing that drummed up on the news, non stop, with such fervor you'd think the nation was melting down. But if anyone did deserve to be accused of treason, it would have been obama. I don't recall president Trump loading up an airplane with pallets of cold hard cash and flying it into a country under the cover of darkness that is our enemy that chants death to America, like obama did. Your examples aren't what I expected, but then, I knew they wouldn't be either.

I don't think the "system" is failing, I think the democrats have gone off the rails. Course you don't see that so... that's why we're here having this discussion.

[Kathianne]

OK... one at a time... birth certificate, no doubt you're throwing that in there because of me, so how about you find me obama's real hard copy Hawaiian birth certificate. Prove to me I'm wrong, prove I'm "extreme." Then, I don't recall the right claiming obama committed treason. I don't remember seeing that drummed up on the news, non stop, with such fervor you'd think the nation was melting down. But if anyone did deserve to be accused of treason, it would have been obama. I don't recall president Trump loading up an airplane with pallets of cold hard cash and flying it into a country under the cover of darkness that is our enemy that chants death to America, like obama did. Your examples aren't what I expected.

I don't think the "system" is failing, I think the democrats have gone off the rails. Course you don't see that so... that's why we're here having this discussion.

No this 'discussion,' is because I don't agree with you on all points.

I've said i like many of the things that Trump has accomplished economically; I like his judicial choices; I even like some of his foreign speeches-though not Helsinki, not when he sounds like he might renege on NATO and Article 5-though the only time it was invoked was 9/11, not when he criticizes allies in public and out of the country.

So, while I don't like the man, it does seem like mostly I like what he's done. Liberal I am not.

I don't have to 'prove' anything about Obama's birth certificate; indeed neither did he once elected, it made the point moot.

Trump did not commit treason in Helsinki; nor did Obama while President.

IMO, extremists are those that throw around 'evil', traitorous; and other inflammatory statements-and it's not just coming from the right nor from the left. It's not just conservatives or liberals. The ones not doing it are dropping out altogether or appalled-they are not coming together either, which will lead to one of the extremes 'winning.' If it's your team, it'll be grand.

[aboutime]

[Gunny]

@Kathianne: to respond to your question. The only response you are going to get is you hate Trump. The right has turned into the left. I see no difference in behavior between one side and the other. You're 100% for or 100% against for BOTH sides. Used to be the right stood for being against that mentality. Until they adopted it. Now it's okay.

It wasn't okay for Obama to make enemies of our allies and allies of our enemies, but it IS okay if Trump does it. Unions sucked to the right ]until Trump decided to artificially prop up an industry that can't compete fairly on the world market and strong-arm the World, to include US consumers, into footing the bill. Now over-priced-and-paid union industry is okay

The World doesn't agree with paying for it? They suck. But Putin's okay because he has no dog in the fight. Why should he care? He's probably amused more than anything.

I'd hate to be one of our so-called "allies" in the ME right now with Putin flexing his muscle and Trump doing nothing but talking.

It wasn't okay to f- over our allies when Obama did it, and it's not okay now.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

No this 'discussion,' is because I don't agree with you on all points.

I've said i like many of the things that Trump has accomplished economically; I like his judicial choices; I even like some of his foreign speeches-though not Helsinki, not when he sounds like he might renege on NATO and Article 5-though the only time it was invoked was 9/11, not when he criticizes allies in public and out of the country.

So, while I don't like the man, it does seem like mostly I like what he's done. Liberal I am not.

I don't have to 'prove' anything about Obama's birth certificate; indeed neither did he once elected, it made the point moot.

Trump did not commit treason in Helsinki; nor did Obama while President.

IMO, extremists are those that throw around 'evil', traitorous; and other inflammatory statements-and it's not just coming from the right nor from the left. It's not just conservatives or liberals. The ones not doing it are dropping out altogether or appalled-they are not coming together either, which will lead to one of the extremes 'winning.' If it's your team, it'll be grand.

Well you're the one that said it was the "extreme right" that didn't believe obama was born in Hawaii. Actually it's very mainstream. I mean, he's gone, we don't have to pretend that pathetic forgery he posted online was real anymore.

I think maybe we should take a look at NATO now, don't you? I mean the cold war is over. If you had thirteen kids and seven of them grew up and moved out of your house, would you want to continue paying their bills?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

The right has turned into the left. I see no difference in behavior between one side and the other.

That's astonishing... even though I know you don't like president Trump either.

Tell me, when was the last time you saw non stop protests by conservatives wearing pussy hats saying FUCK (name a democrat), and that they wanted to BLOW UP THE WHITE HOUSE?

What cities can you list that are governed by conservatives that the streets are covered with SHIT and NEEDLES and HOMELESS PEOPLE and ILLEGAL ALIENS?

When have conservatives railed against law enforcement?

When did conservatives advocate for open borders?

What conservative news channel ever called obama "POOPY PANTS?"

You see "no difference?" Unreal...

[Kathianne]

Well you're the one that said it was the "extreme right" that didn't believe obama was born in Hawaii. Actually it's very mainstream. I mean, he's gone, we don't have to pretend that pathetic forgery he posted online was real anymore.

I think maybe we should take a look at NATO now, don't you? I mean the cold war is over. If you had thirteen kids and seven of them grew up and moved out of your house, would you want to continue paying their bills?

No. Perhaps you've missed it, but NATO was a response to Russian aggression, Cold War or not, that hasn't stopped.

Now when it comes to them paying more? Sure, that would be good. Ditching the organization, waffling on pledged defense? No.

While the US pays more than its share, we also have used that to establish military bases where we want them. Not mentioned.

How much is the US paying of NATO? 22%. Indirect funding tends more to the countries in Europe, which increases their share, which doesn't show up in their percentages of 'direct funding.':

https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm

[Gunny]

That's astonishing... even though I know you don't like president Trump either.

Tell me, when was the last time you saw non stop protests by conservatives wearing pussy hats saying FUCK (name a democrat), and that they wanted to BLOW UP THE WHITE HOUSE?

What cities can you list that are governed by conservatives that the streets are covered with SHIT and NEEDLES and HOMELESS PEOPLE and ILLEGAL ALIENS?

I don't know. When did we start deciding who gets to protest and how? What the left is doing does NOT excuse bad behavior on the right. Not with me.

Kathianne's question was a legitimate one and all she got was a bunch of Trumpy BS for answers but no real answer. Whether or not I personally dislike Trump is also irrelevant. I give him credit where it's due. I think he's a pompous ass as a person. I can differentiate between one and the other. Apparently, more than a few cannot.

But all this Ooh-rah shit? Trump this Trump that? Here's what's REALLY happening. People like me are being turned off by people telling us we hate Trump because we don't worship him. That we dare say he is wrong. Dare question his obviously stupid shit. The end result will be me sitting home next election and I won't be alone. And Trump, regardless all the hype and sis-boom-ba Screamin' Eagle shit needs every vote he can get. He IS beatable.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

No. Perhaps you've missed it, but NATO was a response to Russian aggression, Cold War or not, that hasn't stopped.

Now when it comes to them paying more? Sure, that would be good. Ditching the organization, waffling on pledged defense? No.

While the US pays more than its share, we also have used that to establish military bases where we want them. Not mentioned.

How much is the US paying of NATO? 22%. Indirect funding tends more to the countries in Europe, which increases their share, which doesn't show up in their percentages of 'direct funding.':

https://www.nato.int/cps/ie/natohq/topics_67655.htm

Well... we can disagree on that. I do think it wouldn't hurt to take a look at NATO. Yes it was formed because of Russian aggression, but honestly, do you think Russia is going to attack Europe now? NATO was formed so that there would be a deterrent after WWII, correct? https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/nato

I don't know there's still a need for the same alignment today. I don't honestly know.

Would we still want to send in our troops to fight and die and go to full scale war though if Russia attacked say Albania, or Latvia? WOULD Russia attack Albania or Latvia? IDK... but at the "risk" of using a cavalier example, the game "RISK" is about taking over the world, and the object of the game is to take over the world, and you can't do that without expansion.