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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    That said: I want Mrs May gone and replaced by someone tougher, more uncompromising. I want that replacement to re-approach the EU and insist on better terms for our withdrawal from the EU. I want that Conservative-led Government to be prepared to enact a 'no deal' exit, should the EU still refuse to meaningfully cooperate with us.
    Well the Conservative party don’t want Mrs May gone - as she wins her vote of confidence and will remain prime minster, trebles all round!
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    You are still basing the future of your country on wishful thinking. Do you know how trading works? You're going to offer us the WWW? We already got that thank you. What else you got?
    What do you mean, 'going to' .. ? We already DID. Didn't you read what I posted ?

    My point is, never underestimate British capabilities.

    You talk about wishful thinking. OK, let me mirror yours. Yours is that the UK continues to suck on the teat of EU dependency. Well ... the 2016 Referendum proved that a majority of voters here were better than that, wanting our nation to be better than that.

    The United Kingdom existed long before the EU did. We not only survived in the world, we thrived. That, Pete, isn't an example of 'wishful thinking', but proven, historic FACT.

    Who are you to say we can't do so again ? And, considering our leading role in IT expertise, you already know from that example that we're both innovative and eminently adaptable to future world challenges.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    What do you mean, 'going to' .. ? We already DID. Didn't you read what I posted ?

    My point is, never underestimate British capabilities.

    You talk about wishful thinking. OK, let me mirror yours. Yours is that the UK continues to suck on the teat of EU dependency. Well ... the 2016 Referendum proved that a majority of voters here were better than that, wanting our nation to be better than that.

    The United Kingdom existed long before the EU did. We not only survived in the world, we thrived. That, Pete, isn't an example of 'wishful thinking', but proven, historic FACT.

    Who are you to say we can't do so again ? And, considering our leading role in IT expertise, you already know from that example that we're both innovative and eminently adaptable to future world challenges.
    So that is your brexit plan? Just hoping you can invent some shit to sell?

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    So that is your brexit plan? Just hoping you can invent some shit to sell?
    Good God. I really wonder why I'm arguing with you.

    A lot of our trade is service-based. Some, however, is not.

    Yes. We are an innovative nation. Yes, we can invent and trade in goods coming from those inventions. But suggesting that this is the entirety of the total worth of our trade is simply nonsense. No country could survive under the terms you're suggesting apply to us, not even one imprisoned within EU strictures. We're not a backwater economy ... far from it.

    Yes, I can tell you that there are aspects of your daily life that you, and other parts of the world, owe to the UK's existence. The Internet, for one. The basis for the original television industry, for another (who was television's inventor ? Where did he come from ? Check it out !).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logie_Baird

    John Logie Baird FRSE (13 August 1888 – 14 June 1946) was a Scottish engineer, innovator, one of the inventors of the mechanical television, demonstrating the first working television system on 26 January 1926, and inventor of both the first publicly demonstrated colour television system, and the first purely electronic colour television picture tube.

    In 1928 the Baird Television Development Company achieved the first transatlantic television transmission. Baird's early technological successes and his role in the practical introduction of broadcast television for home entertainment have earned him a prominent place in television's history.

    Baird was ranked number 44 in the BBC's list of the 100 Greatest Britons following a UK-wide vote in 2002 ...
    But the EU isn't a charity. They export to us, we export back to them. We have to be a viable trading partner for that to even be possible.

    So if we can trade with them ... why NOT with other countries ? Why would Trump see any use in considering us as a trading partner ?

    Pete ... wake up. Your doubting that we have anything worthwhile to trade is sheer nonsense, because if it wasn't, then we'd not even exist. We MUST trade, to have a viable economy, and yes, comparatively speaking, we have such an economy !!

    So don't be tiresome. Your inferences defy logic. If we're a viable trading partner with the EU, we can be with anybody.
    Last edited by Drummond; 12-13-2018 at 12:31 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  7. #125
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    A big day of sorts, as the governments Brexit plan is put to the vote in the House of Commons. It already lost a vote in the Lords (by a large margin) but it’s the commons vote that will matter.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    A big day of sorts, as the governments Brexit plan is put to the vote in the House of Commons. It already lost a vote in the Lords (by a large margin) but it’s the commons vote that will matter.
    Yes. Of course. Pretty much everyone thinks (as do I) that the Commons won't ratify 'The Deal'. As you probably know, Noir, that'd mandate Mrs May to come up with an alternative plan of action within three days.

    This is all an enormous mess, with its origin coming from the EU's absolute refusal to give us a deal which our own people can accept.

    The one thing I totally agree with Mrs May on, is her stating that not supporting the Brexit process (i.e, cancelling it) would be widely seen as a betrayal of democracy. The Conservatives, if they ever took such a step and revoked Article 50, wouldn't be forgiven for a VERY long time.

    Some even question whether the Conservative Party could be a viable political force in British politics, were that to happen.

    I see their point -- unfortunately.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  9. #127
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    Default Anti-Brexit scaremongering ....

    The Left refuses to negotiate with the other side? Why does that sound familiar?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. - Ronald Reagan

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  11. #128
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    Default Brexit Deal result ...

    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  12. #129
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    Default Hey petey....

    Quote Originally Posted by pete311 View Post
    Exactly, it's a service based economy. The US doesn't need your technology or intel services. So what exactly could you offer us in trade?
    Once again. Thank You, for being so willing to demonstrate your actual Ignorance, and stupidity on subjects you absolutely have no knowledge about.

    You are proving the rumors here in the U.S., about our failing Education system, from a 1st hand demonstration, provided by None-other-than "YOU!" Thank You.
    Remember. YOU do have the right to remain Quiet. But we all thank you for abusing that right.
    I love to make Liberals Cry, and Whine.
    So, this is for them.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA - IN GOD WE TRUST !

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  14. #130
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    So for a brief summary of the past few weeks and days in brexit-

    May delayed parliament voting on the Brexit bill because she thought she would lose.
    The Tory party filed a motion of no confidence in May to replace her as party leader, which she won.
    The Brexit bill was finally put to the house, and failed with a remarkable and historic margin.
    Labour have filed for a vote of no confidence in the Tory government, which May will almost certainly win today.
    After which she has a further 2 days to come up with a new Brexit bill to put to a parliamentary vote...
    Last edited by Noir; 01-16-2019 at 03:54 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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  16. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    So for a brief summary of the past few weeks and days in brexit-

    May delayed parliament voting on the Brexit bill because she thought she would lose.
    ... and thought she could use time gained to tip the voting balance in her favour. Yes.

    As it turned out, not only did she fail, but one EXTRA MP on her own side voted against Mrs May's deal !!

    The Tory party filed a motion of no confidence in May to replace her as party leader, which she won.
    Pretty easily, too. She now can't be challenged as Leader for almost another entire year.

    The Brexit bill was finally put to the house, and failed with a remarkable and historic margin.
    That 'margin' being bigger than anybody expected ... no doubt even Labour. Yes.

    Labour have filed for a vote of no confidence in the Tory government, which May will almost certainly win today.
    She should do, yes.

    Just goes to show how desperate for power Corbyn is. He'll try anything to seize it, regardless of how slim the chances are of success.

    After which she has a further 2 days to come up with a new Brexit bill to put to a parliamentary vote...
    I've been hearing anything from three days (one used up already) to next Monday, which would allow a further five days, including today.
    Last edited by Drummond; 01-16-2019 at 12:22 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  17. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Just goes to show how desperate for power Corbyn is. He'll try anything to seize it, regardless of how slim the chances are of success.
    I don’t know what exactly it is you expect of him - the executive are dreadful, truly dreadful, and on the back of the worst commons defeat by a long way, and with Tory infighting abound, he’s suppose to sit there and do nothing? Especially given it’s more than likely that a general election would topple this minority government?
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

  18. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    I don’t know what exactly it is you expect of him - the executive are dreadful, truly dreadful, and on the back of the worst commons defeat by a long way, and with Tory infighting abound, he’s suppose to sit there and do nothing? Especially given it’s more than likely that a general election would topple this minority government?
    Mrs May has herself addressed what Corbyn can do: he and his Party can start acting in the country's interests, be constructive ... not try for all he's worth to grab power !!

    What cross-Party contact has there been on any of this ? Mrs May is still trying to work out what coherent policies Corbyn's side has, that address today's realities !

    Mrs May has (as expected) fended off Corbyn's 'No Confidence' motion, and actually quite comfortably. So, with that over and done with, Corbyn can stop his hostility and start to work WITH Government, to find what basis they can have to work together towards a solution Parliament can work with.

    .. Fat chance ... I know. But Corbyn could TRY to be constructive, and put aside his power-mania.

    Given that none of this happens to any useful extent, I think that we'll have to crash out minus a deal. A second Referendum, whilst not rejected outright by Labour .. they're not keen on having one (they were never in favour of the first one ! Besides, how do we find the time to organise it ??). Mrs May is determined not to cancel the Brexit process .. nor, according to Andrea Leadsome, to ask for a Brexit delay beyond March.

    All this adds up to me, short of miracles of attitude and approach appearing from both the EU and the likes of Corbyn, to .... a hard Brexit, on 29th March, at 11pm !!
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  19. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Mrs May has (as expected) fended off Corbyn's 'No Confidence' motion, and actually quite comfortably.
    Maybe we have different definitions of “quite comfortably” only being saved by 10MPs votes (which she paid £1 billion for) doesn’t spring to my mind as quite comfortably.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Maybe we have different definitions of “quite comfortably” only being saved by 10MPs votes (which she paid £1 billion for) doesn’t spring to my mind as quite comfortably.
    To be clear: are you accusing Mrs May of bribery ??

    Until or unless you explain yourself, I'll assume this is some sort of reference to how DUP support was acquired. I think (if so) the real point is that the DUP have, for the most part, common cause with the Conservatives (neither wants Corbyn's lot to get into No 10 !!). Where that common cause is served, they become supportive allies.

    Considering that Mrs May's Government is a minority one ... YES ... I think 'quite comfortably' is accurate.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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