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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    I really can't believe it's been that long.

    How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

    Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?

    There are far too many around the nation that have long forgotten already. Even our government put aside differences and got together as one. But that only lasted a day or so before back to the same 'ol same 'ol.

    Back then, flags were popping up all over again and being proudly displayed. Now? Not only less flags memorializing 9/11, but in many aspects wearing or having or doing something with the American flag can get you in hot water these days. Don't wan't to offend the innocent muslims, ya know?

    Now, and far from only here, there are still endless arguments about that day. Things have changed, many have in fact forgotten, and that's sad. But worse when and if it may be used as a tool, or the blame game crap.

    But dang, my kid just went off to college, and he wasn't even a year old yet when 9/11 took place.


    There is no way to describe or explain or somehow list the amount of heroes that appeared out of the woodwork on that day. Regular everyday people, police officers, firemen, clergy & even rescue dogs. And that's just the beginning, no way to truly honor everyone from all sides. But those who worked to save lives or did save lives, now THOSE are heroes. REAL heroes who saved lives, put their own lives in grave danger & many actually died while helping others. Now THAT is true sacrificing.

    Here are a few of those folks...















    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I really can't believe it's been that long.

    How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

    Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?

    There are far too many around the nation that have long forgotten already. Even our government put aside differences and got together as one. But that only lasted a day or so before back to the same 'ol same 'ol.

    Back then, flags were popping up all over again and being proudly displayed. Now? Not only less flags memorializing 9/11, but in many aspects wearing or having or doing something with the American flag can get you in hot water these days. Don't wan't to offend the innocent muslims, ya know?

    Now, and far from only here, there are still endless arguments about that day. Things have changed, many have in fact forgotten, and that's sad. But worse when and if it may be used as a tool, or the blame game crap.

    But dang, my kid just went off to college, and he wasn't even a year old yet when 9/11 took place.


    There is no way to describe or explain or somehow list the amount of heroes that appeared out of the woodwork on that day. Regular everyday people, police officers, firemen, clergy & even rescue dogs. And that's just the beginning, no way to truly honor everyone from all sides. But those who worked to save lives or did save lives, now THOSE are heroes. REAL heroes who saved lives, put their own lives in grave danger & many actually died while helping others. Now THAT is true sacrificing.
    Yes , it has been 17 years and just look at the state that Islam is in worldwide..
    Has it been diminished any at all?? NO
    And it was Islam that did that!!! It was not crazy aliens from another planet.
    The government and media have done a great job at convincing most people Islam is not to blame?
    FFING bullshit!!
    Islam and their cult book, the damn Koran, are solely to blame.
    We should have declared war on Islam instead of deciding to cover for them. Now Islam is stronger than ever and protected by their dark Lord(Satan).--I am sick of the lie -that Islam is a religion of peace! It is so damn easy to research and find that the exact opposite is true..
    To hell with the damn muzzy's.. Islam is a cancer.....functions exactly like a cancer.. stands against everything our Constitution promotes.. yet festers here in our nation biding its time to destroy, a fact......(wake up)
    Some of us do not forget, do not forgive and carry the deepest hatred ever known to man..
    They had best pray, some patriots never decide to act upon that and deliver some justice back to those filthyyyyyyyyyyyy animals.
    FFKKKK THEM.....---TYR
    Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 09-11-2018 at 06:38 AM.
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    How many here stated then, or not long after, "I'll never forget" and went along exactly with the rest of the nation on that aspect?

    Now, how many here have lost sight, and perhaps HAVE forgotten those events, and those thousands of lives?
    Forgetting events? No.
    But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

    There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Forgetting events? No.
    But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

    There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.
    So states a person that is not an American... One that is a liberal, always keen to defend those that do evil...
    Those college kids that do not know..hmmmm.
    Tell me how that blindness occurred-will ya?
    Was it by a non-stop government/media campaign to insure forgetfulness, to make damn sure that 9/11, a major historic event, was not taught in our schools?
    You that live in a liberal lala land haven't a damn clue.--Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Forgetting events? No.
    But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

    There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.
    I can agree with you to an extent on all of this. For those of us that were alive when it took place, and some of us closer to the area than others, it was an extremely emotional day, which turned into an emotional remembrance 17 years running thus far.

    The scared I felt, the complete unknown, running out of NYC while still not fully knowing, but hearing all the horrid details coming out as I had the obvious extended drive home. Some folks lost loved ones and some lost friends. My wife lost 2 colleagues in the towers that day. A few others I know apparently knew folks there. I had a connection myself, but very distant.

    I can understand letting go some of the emotion of "anger", as Bin Laden is dead as are others involved. No point carrying rage about the incident, and I do agree that it would be unhealthy. But I will never forget the 'type' that committed these acts, and apparently why. And it does bring me with a closer attention to Islam, the radical side I speak of, and I won't forget that those terrorist types committed these acts. That many still exist, more to come & one main goal they all share is "death to America" in some fashion.

    So yeah, I let go of the anger towards those that are dead and/or in the slammer. But I sleep with one eye open when it comes to radical Islam, which is a huge portion of Islam. I won't forget the entirety of the act and every last person remotely to be involved. We need to be ever vigilant in protecting our country & preparing for scum like this to exist and/or want to bring harm to us.

    But yes, I do understand your point, and I agree with it. It's just that, IMO, certain things should never be forgotten. And I HOPE and PRAY that when kids that are born today, and whether in HS or college - learn the 100% truth about everything that transpired that day. None of that "Bush did it" crap in text books nor how "we may be responsible" in some manner for their actions. EFF THAT - it was a HUGE crime, and there is no excuse whatsoever for them to have done so, no matter what one thinks we may have done or didn't do for another country.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Forgetting events? No.
    But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.

    There’s also a wave of about-to-be college students who weren’t alive before 9/11, who’s emotions are about as detached as it is possible to be, that changes conversations.
    So what you're saying, is:

    1. Don't forget what happened. However ...

    2. Make sure you cease to view it, and feel about it, as people did at that time.

    WHY ???

    Tell me. In your Leftie world, are people entitled to learn (for example) about the horrors of Auschwitz, but NOT entitled to feel anything for Nazism's victims there ?

    It's surely essentially the same point as the one you're trying to make now. An atrocity was committed on this day, in New York, all those years ago. Americans have the RIGHT to feel as they do, and I would argue (to the extent I could even have the smallest justification in adding my own judgment on this !) that if they want to revisit their memories of that day, and feel what they feel about it all, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, AND IT IS 'HEALTHY' THAT THEY DO !!!

    I don't feel at all comfortable about judging any of this. How is it, Noir, that you do ??

    In your world, would you rather that Americans become emotionally disengaged, so that all impetus and motivation in fighting the evil that spawned this terrorism, is lost ??

    Do you believe that grieving families have now lost the right to grieve ??

    Do you now appreciate, Noir, how WRONG you are ??
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    @Jim Then maybe I can be more specific- what is your sentiment regarding “I’ll never forget”
    Forget what?
    Last edited by Noir; 09-11-2018 at 08:23 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    So what you're saying, is:

    1. Don't forget what happened. However ...

    2. Make sure you cease to view it, and feel about it, as people did at that time.
    No, but as with all trauma - the emotion of the immediate will fade, which will inevitably change the conversation about it.

    I think that is a healthy and non-controversial outlook
    Last edited by Noir; 09-11-2018 at 08:28 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    I was at a CG Search and Rescue station in Bayside, Queens (Ft Totten) in the early 80's.
    3/4ers of our Reservists were cops or firefighters in NYC.

    That particular day I was on leave while living in Long Beach CA. My brother and I had
    been to a Redskins vs Chargers game in San Diego the day before.

    While watching The news over morning coffee, I saw what was unfolding. Without hesitation,
    I shaved, showered and went into the Command Center at CG Group Los Angeles - Long Beach
    to augment the watch. (I was the Senior Controller). It was pandemonium in both
    harbors. No vessels allowed in unless escorted.

    Forget? NO! Forgive? NO!
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    No, but as with all trauma - the emotion of the immediate will fade, which will inevitably change the conversation about it.

    I think that is a healthy and non-controversial outlook
    You're changing this.

    Review your post. You weren't talking about motions FADING, you were talking about them being FORGOTTEN.

    Let me remind you of your wording ...

    Forgetting events? No. But forgetting emotions? Yes, and in the most part that is a healthy and inevitable outcome.
    I think you realise you've made a mistake, that you've gone a little too far in pushing a preferred pro-'PC' outlook, and you're shifting goalposts a little to try and remain credible.

    But let's move on a little, shall we ? You're now saying that the fading of emotions will 'change the conversation about it'. Tell me, what would you prefer it be changed TO ?
    Last edited by Drummond; 09-11-2018 at 08:41 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    @Jim Then maybe I can be more specific- what is your sentiment regarding “I’ll never forget”
    Forget what?
    You try living with such an event and see how your philosophy works for you.

    First responders - Police, Firefighters, Ambulance Crews, City Workers - all perished
    when those towers collapsed. They put their lives on the line each time they
    deploy from their station.

    Forgive? NO! Forget? NO!
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    You're changing this.

    Review your post. You weren't talking about motions FADING, you were talking about them being FORGOTTEN.

    Let me remind you of your wording ...



    I think you realise you've made a mistake, that you've gone a little too far in pushing a preferred pro-'PC' outlook, and you're shifting goalposts a little to try and remain credible.

    But tell me. You're now saying that the fading of emotions will 'change the conversation about it'. Tell me, what would you prefer it be changed TO ?
    An emotion can fade into being forgotten, I think that is consistent.

    I would prefer a conversation not driven by emotion. To some extent that is impossible at the 1st generation level (and maybe beyond idk) - but it is easier the greater time from the event.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Watched the news for awhile this morning and noticed a definite LACK of any mention of WHO did this. There's lots of stories about WHAT happened, but I haven't heard any WHY, or any WHO did it.

    Just so that we DON'T forget WHO did it and WHY, it was MUSLIMS who did it, and they're mission is to KILL THE INFIDEL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    An emotion can fade into being forgotten, I think that is consistent.

    I would prefer a conversation not driven by emotion. To some extent that is impossible at the 1st generation level (and maybe beyond idk) - but it is easier the greater time from the event.
    So we're agreed, then, that the emotions being FORGOTTEN is something you regard as preferable.

    To which I'd say - as an example of how unjust such a viewpoint is -- should grieving families now have no further right to grieve ? In your opinion, are they wrong to ?

    Getting back, for a moment, to my Auschwitz example of earlier. Would you 'prefer to have a conversation not driven by emotion' on that subject ? If it were a conversation with a Holocaust survivor, would you much rather that said survivor not 'hold any emotion' about what he or she had gone through ? If 'yes' ...

    ... BY WHAT RIGHT WOULD YOU REQUIRE SUCH A THING ?

    Equally with 9/11, a far more recent atrocity. Would you 'ban' a loved one of a victim of that attack from conversing with you about it, because it might be an 'emotional' exchange ??

    Americans have a right to feel what they do. Who are you to stand in judgment over them about it ?

    Is it because you'd rather they obeyed a certain 'PC imperative', which requires the neutralisation of any and all impetus in further taking on the evil that spawned that attack ? H'mm .. ??
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Default Today marks 17 years since the events of 9/11

    Someone grieving is expected and in the most part uncontrollable - Someone still in grief many years after an event should be seeking help because that is not healthy for them, or those around them.

    Re: Examples like the holocaust, empathy is a separate and useful tool, that I do not think contradicts with what I am saying.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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