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  1. #1
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    Default Sounds Like The UK Might Face A Government Shutdown Of It's Own

    Looks like the Deep State in London is doing all it can to thwart the will of the people:

    REPORT: Anti-Brexit MPs Plot Coup to Stop UK Making Clean Break from EU

    Remain-supporting backbench MPs are conspiring to upend Parliamentary protocol and seize control of Brexit from the Government in attempts to stop a WTO exit or even to prevent the UK from leaving the EU altogether, according to The Sunday Times.

    A group of cross-party backbench, or non-Governmental, MPs are said to be tabling an amendment to change House of Commons rules so that backbenchersí motions could precedence over Government business, according to sources speaking to the newspaper of record.
    Downing Street is said to be concerned that that could result in laws being passed to stop the UK leaving the EU without a deal, a suspension of Article 50 (the process for leaving the EU), or even stop Brexit entirely.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...-eu-wto-terms/

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    Quote Originally Posted by FakeNewsSux View Post
    Looks like the Deep State in London is doing all it can to thwart the will of the people:

    REPORT: Anti-Brexit MPs Plot Coup to Stop UK Making Clean Break from EU

    Remain-supporting backbench MPs are conspiring to upend Parliamentary protocol and seize control of Brexit from the Government in attempts to stop a WTO exit or even to prevent the UK from leaving the EU altogether, according to The Sunday Times.

    A group of cross-party backbench, or non-Governmental, MPs are said to be tabling an amendment to change House of Commons rules so that backbenchers’ motions could precedence over Government business, according to sources speaking to the newspaper of record.
    Downing Street is said to be concerned that that could result in laws being passed to stop the UK leaving the EU without a deal, a suspension of Article 50 (the process for leaving the EU), or even stop Brexit entirely.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...-eu-wto-terms/
    I was wondering if the UK's situation would get coverage here, & / or if there'd be interest in it.

    Yes, we have one hell of a mess brewing.

    Brexit. Voted for, on 23rd June 2016, and Article 50 invoked several months later, to start the process. We had two years to negotiate a good, proper, future trading deal with the EU that would've allowed the UK to exit without too much 'pain', granting us the autonomy we wanted.

    The EU prevaricated, failed to meaningfully negotiate, for almost all of that time. But, intense and last-minute negotiations cobbled together 'a deal', which Mrs May had had to try and sell to Parliament and to the wider Public.

    It has a fatal flaw ... 'The Backstop'. An arrangement buying time to resolve the sticky N Ireland border issue, one tying us in to treaty obligations with the EU if invoked. It'd stop full separation from the EU, and, it'd need the EU to agree to end it !!!

    [I understand that Greece and Macedonia had such a deal themselves, with their own version of a 'backstop' lasting FIFTEEN YEARS ..]

    Everyone expects Parliament to refuse to ratify the UK-EU deal. With that failure, AND moves made to make leaving without a deal an impossibility (!) ... we've got total dysfunctionality to look forward to.

    Jeremy Corbyn (whose Socialist Labour Party is supplying a great deal of the opposition, and chaos !!) is, we're told, lining up to supply his 'solution' ... that of a vote of No Confidence in the Government. If the vote happens, and Corbyn wins it, our Government fails, and we must have a General Election.

    [It was just such a vote which defeated Jim Callagahan's Government in 1978, ushering in Mrs Thatcher's victory in 1979]

    Corbyn, if in Government, says he'd negotiate more 'competently' with the EU.

    This defies the reality of the EU absolutely refusing to renegotiate a thing. Not one paragraph. Not one letter. They've told us that many times. But ... Corbyn, in common with Socialists generally, only sees his preferred 'reality'. He wants us to believe in it, too, and usher in a ruinous Socialist Government.

    So, here we are ... facing a Constitutional crisis. One authored by EU intransigence and dodgy dealing ... and one, I'm afraid it must be said, aided & abetted by Mrs May's spinelessness in 'dealing' with EU bullying. We're stuck with one possible EU 'exit' deal - a deeply flawed one - and it'll no doubt cost Mrs May's career before much longer.

    And so, our crisis (assuming the deal's rejection in Parliament) looms large, ever-worsening.
    Last edited by Drummond; 01-14-2019 at 10:47 AM.
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

  3. #3
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    Once a nation surrenders it's sovereignty, in any way, shape or form, it is nearly impossible to regain it without drastic (and sometimes bloody) courses of action.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    Once a nation surrenders it's sovereignty, in any way, shape or form, it is nearly impossible to regain it without drastic (and sometimes bloody) courses of action.
    Yes.

    It's not surprising that the EU has treated us as it has. Obviously, it'll further its own interests, not ours. Our hope of a clean, trouble-free exit was never likely to happen.

    We now have Mrs May telling us that failure to ratify the deal risks the end of the Brexit process entirely, with our remaining in the EU -- as a 2nd Referendum may also do.

    That's a much-argued alternative ...that of a SECOND Referendum, which some would hope will reverse the previous 'leave the EU' decision.

    This speaks for itself on two levels .. the less obvious one being to question what possible worth the first Referendum had, if its decision is rendered null and void by a second one !!

    That aside .. the spectacle of our Parliament moving to vote against a process which facilitates Brexit (even if flawed) will be interpreted as a stand against democratic decision. Compound that with an overruling-2nd Referendum, and I think that trust in democracy ITSELF will be broken.
    Last edited by Drummond; 01-14-2019 at 11:24 AM.
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Yes.

    It's not surprising that the EU has treated us as it has. Obviously, it'll further its own interests, not ours. Our hope of a clean, trouble-free exit was never likely to happen.

    We now have Mrs May telling us that failure to ratify the deal risks the end of the Brexit process entirely, with our remaining in the EU -- as a 2nd Referendum may also do.

    That's a much-argued alternative ...that of a SECOND Referendum, which some would hope will reverse the previous 'leave the EU' decision.

    This speaks for itself on two levels .. the less obvious one being to question what possible worth the first Referendum had, if its decision is rendered null and void by a second one !!

    That aside .. the spectacle of our Parliament moving to vote against a process which facilitates Brexit (even if flawed) will be interpreted as a stand against democratic decision. Compound that with an overruling-2nd Referendum, and I think that trust in democracy ITSELF will be broken.
    It would seem that all nation members of the EU have abdicated their sovereignty. It sure didn't take long for what was supposed to be an economic "deal" to turn into a political one. Just my opinion, but placing the fate of your nation in the hands of those who have their own interests at heart ( rather than a particular country) is just asking for trouble. If it ends as you have described, the good citizens of the UK may want to consider holding a tea party!
    Last edited by CSM; 01-14-2019 at 11:36 AM.
    I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
    Thomas Jefferson


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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    It would seem that all nation members of the EU have abdicated their sovereignty. It sure didn't take long for what was supposed to be an economic "deal" to turn into a political one. Just my opinion, but placing the fate of your nation in the hands of those who have their own interests at heart ( rather than a particular country) is just asking for trouble. If it ends as you have described, the good citizens of the UK may want to consider holding a tea party!
    It's way too late for our version of a 'tea party'.

    The real danger is that Corbyn and his Labour Party will succeed in using all this to gain power. THEY will be seen as the 'credible' alternative, claiming that its the Conservatives who created this mess.

    They'll conveniently overlook the EU's own hand in this. They'll also insist that the fiction of renegotiation is within their remit ... it isn't.

    They may also try to channel public dissatisfaction into a second Referendum, designed to overturn the first. This would, if successful, kill off Brexit.

    That Member States (the clue's in the name ?) have abdicated their sovereignty, is a 'given'. It's been done by a slow, dripfeeding process, one that's continuing. The EU, after all, has its own Parliament, one that passes laws, then expects those laws to be written into statute in every Member State's legal system.

    The EU is itself a mutation. Once, it was only a trading confederation. Then, the 'power brokers' moved in, rather as nature abhors a vacuum ... and created a power-base out of it. Decades later, they're rewriting laws, redefining social standards ... we even have a European Court of Human Rights, overruling judgments ... oh, and now, talk of a European Army.

    .... and, in many cases, a common currency ... !!!

    All this speaks for itself.
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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    Corbyn (leader of our Socialists) isn't wasting any time at all ... this afternoon, just a couple of hours ago as I type, he announced that he wanted a General Election should the 'deal/no deal' ratification vote be lost ... as pretty much everyone expects to see.

    Power-grabbing ... on the back of chaos he's helping to make ... and with just weeks before the date we're due to leave the EU.

    Trust the Left to make a crisis FAR worse, and to hell with anything daring to get in the way of their grab for power .. such as, the 'little' issue of the interests of the nation !!
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Corbyn (leader of our Socialists) isn't wasting any time at all ... this afternoon, just a couple of hours ago as I type, he announced that he wanted a General Election should the 'deal/no deal' ratification vote be lost ... as pretty much everyone expects to see.

    Power-grabbing ... on the back of chaos he's helping to make ... and with just weeks before the date we're due to leave the EU.

    Trust the Left to make a crisis FAR worse, and to hell with anything daring to get in the way of their grab for power .. such as, the 'little' issue of the interests of the nation !!
    Drummond, do you really believe Corbyn could win in a General Election? Would the Conservatives ever think of replacing May with someone that more staunchly backs Brexit if such an election were to take place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FakeNewsSux View Post
    Drummond, do you really believe Corbyn could win in a General Election? Would the Conservatives ever think of replacing May with someone that more staunchly backs Brexit if such an election were to take place?
    Taking these points in order ...

    Yes, I believe Corbyn could win a General Election. Had you asked me that a couple of years ago, I'd have said 'never in a million years'. Unfortunately, he's already done way better as Labour leader than anyone predicted.

    In the last Labour leadership election, Corbyn's candidacy was little more than a joke. But, he won outright with grassroots support. Many in his own Party have opposed him, by and large because he's seen as too radical and TOO Left wing.

    But his support has grown, and these days, an internal challenge to Corbyn isn't on the cards.

    A couple of years ago, we had a General Election. Mrs May had a slim majority in the House of Commons, and she - wrongly - judged Corbyn to be such a loser that her increasing her MP majority was 'a given'. Corbyn trounced that ... Mrs May's majority was wiped out. She's only been able to govern in partnership with a rival Party, the DUP.

    Now, because of Brexit and their absolute rejection of the 'backstop' clause in the Brexit deal, the DUP no longer support Mrs May's Party, and they're set to vote against her Brexit deal tonight.

    The Conservative Party now has fundamental splits in it, thanks to 'The Deal'. The DUP no longer support the Government. Corbyn, in all of this chaos, has a definite chance of winning an election outright ... they'd do this, IF they do, partly because some like his brand of Socialism; partly because the Conservatives will be seen as co-creators of chaos, so disillusionment with them will set in; AND, partly because, as we saw in the last election, our youth see Corbyn's ideas as fresh and even 'revolutionary'.

    [In truth, that's VERY wrong. Corbyn would recreate the Socialism of the Seventies, which saw mass strikes and the UK become an economic basket-case !!]

    So, in all, YES, Corbyn could win. His win would be a disaster for us, but many might conclude that his approach is to be preferred over Mrs May's current chaos. For example, they might believe that Labour could renegotiate Brexit terms with the EU (they've suggested just that), despite the EU's insistence that the deal we have is the only one they'll agree to !

    As for Mrs May being internally replaced: well, recently, Mrs May's leadership WAS challenged, and a vote taken. She survived that vote, and, by the Conservative Party's own rules, cannot be challenged for another year.

    Mrs May has said she wouldn't lead her Party into the next General Election, though !! Taking her literally, she'll remove HERSELF, if Corbyn won his Election bid (it's not certain that he CAN kickstart the process, successfully).
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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    Default Result of the Brexit deal vote ...

    As expected ... the Government has lost its vote in the Commons. The 'deal' which Mrs May tried to get ratified, hasn't been. She can't get it through Parliament.

    The size of the defeat is even bigger than anybody expected. The vote was ...

    For the deal: 202

    Against it: 432

    A majority of 230 were against seeing this ratified.

    Such figures totally defy the normal voting pattern you'd expect where Members of Parliament vote along Party lines. It's a massive 'NO' vote. So much so, in fact, that it's historically bad ... nothing like it (if I heard Andrew Neil, on the BBC, correctly ?) has been seen in the Commons since 1924.

    The extent of the 'no' margin is so great that it's clear a large chunk of Mrs May's own Party defied her over it. Evidently, the Deal is now 'dead'.

    ... AND ...... surprise surprise ! Jeremy Corbyn, the moment Mrs May finished her concluding speech following the defeat, immediately announced that he was tabling a Motion of No Confidence in the Government.

    He's lost literally no time whatever in making his bid to oust our Government from power.

    Such is his hunger for power. Never mind the chaos of the now-indeterminate Brexit 'process', which must be resolved (short of an extension of time being granted, by no means guaranteed) within weeks. Corbyn evidently couldn't care less about any of that.

    So ... we now need to see how such a vote goes. If Corbyn wins it, then, Constitutionally, Mrs May will be forced to visit the Queen and tender her Government's resignation. Once that's done, we go forward into General Election territory.

    It's the same process which saw Margaret Thatcher become our Prime Minister. Such a No Confidence motion was won back in 1978, and Jim Callaghan had to give way to the inevitable election.

    Chaos rules, folks ....
    Last edited by Drummond; Yesterday at 03:30 PM.
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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  18. #11
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    Default Mrs May survives No Confidence vote

    Well, Mrs May and her Government have seen off Corbyn's attempt to wreck our Government. The 'No Confidence' vote has been taken, with 325 voting in the Government's favour, and 306 against.

    So, the chaos rumbles on. Ideally, you'd see Party members get together and try for a spirit of constructive cooperation, to work out what common ground they could build upon. BUT, this is Jeremy Corbyn we're talking about, and his more radical Socialists. All they care about is power and getting their own way.

    I think we're headed towards a no-deal Brexit ... short of the EU finally and belatedly dreaming up a basis of negotiating DECENTLY and FAIRLY. Unlikely, to say the least. There's no enthusiasm from Mrs May, so far at least, for asking for a delay beyond the leaving-date of 29th March.

    So, there it is .....

    If of interest ...

    https://news.yahoo.com/theresa-may-s...l?guccounter=1

    Partial quote ..

    After the vote, Mrs May vowed to “continue to work to deliver on the solemn promise we made to the people of this country to deliver the referendum and leave the European Union”.

    She invited to leaders of other parliamentary parties to meet with her “starting tonight,” however Jeremy Corbyn refused her invitation unless she took the option of no-deal off the table.

    “The House has put its confidence in this government. I stand ready to work with any member of this House to deliver on Brexit and ensure that this House retains the confidence of the British people,” Mrs May said.

    Mr Corbyn retorted: "Before there can be any positive discussions about the way forward, the Government must remove clearly, once and for all, the prospect of the catastrophe of a no-deal Brexit from the EU and all the chaos that would come as a result of that."

    Mrs May will now have to present her Brexit 'Plan B' by Monday.
    Corbyn insists that there MUST be a deal. The EU have offered only one, saying that it's all that's possible for them to offer. That one's been rejected already. So, Corbyn refuses to face reality, much less constructively discuss anything.

    .. Helpful ... eh ?
    Last edited by Drummond; Today at 03:55 PM.
    Socialism is a reputability deficiency disease ...

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