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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    https://www.oann.com/iran-says-uk-fl...-bander-abbas/

    I like this. The US perspective of a British-Iran issue The US gets injected at every chance
    Yep, UK has been talking over themselves and with such inconsistency good luck.

    First President Trump made it pretty clear on Friday that US doesn't need the oil, but will protect it's commercial and military assets.

    Too many voices coming out of UK. "No escalation, no military confrontations." 'Hostile to take our ship.' 'You can have your ship back IF you promise it's not going to Syria!'
    'Please give us our ship or we are going to really, really be mad!'


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  3. #47
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    If the UK, USA, France, and Germany gang up together - Iran will be ruined.

    Not like Iraq where France was complicit with the Food for Oil deal that the UN
    Sec General was in on.

    Iran has no friends in that region except terrorists.
    Last edited by Elessar; 07-20-2019 at 09:31 PM.
    I have lost my mind. If found, please give it a snack and return it?

    "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of others"...John Wayne in "The Shootist"

    A Deplorable!

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  5. #48
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    Question: ( I really don't know) On WHOSE authority did the UK seize an Iranian ship? I know I'm asking a lot for some logic out of this crap

    the US reimposed sanctions on Iran. The other countries in the deal are still trying for a deal with a snake. Who else has sanctions on Iran and what are they using as authority to enforce them?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  7. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    If the UK, USA, France, and Germany gang up together - Iran will be ruined.

    Not like Iraq where France was complicit with the Food for Oil deal that the UN
    Sec General was in on.

    Iran has not friends in that region except terrorists.

    What I heard this morning on FOX is that Europe in general does not want a coalition now with the US. They don't trust the US. As I said, this was on FOX and the talking heads agreed that it isn't a US fight, we can care for our interests.

    I get brinkmanship. I get European leaders do not like President Trump. I get President Trump does not like them right back. I also get that if Iran is allowed to keep going as it is, there's going to be a problem.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  9. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Question: ( I really don't know) On WHOSE authority did the UK seize an Iranian ship? I know I'm asking a lot for some logic out of this crap

    the US reimposed sanctions on Iran. The other countries in the deal are still trying for a deal with a snake. Who else has sanctions on Iran and what are they using as authority to enforce them?

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-w...eized-by-iran/

    ...





    France, Germany and the United Kingdom urged Iran to release a British-flagged oil tanker in the Gulf, amid escalating tensions between Tehran and the West.


    "Yesterday's action in Gulf shows worrying signs Iran may be choosing a dangerous path of illegal and destabilizing behavior," U.K. Foreign Minister Jeremy Hunt said in a tweet Saturday. "Our reaction will be considered but robust."




    The Stena Impero was seized in the Strait of Hormuz Friday by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. A second tanker, Liberian-flagged but British operated, was briefly seized and then released.


    Earlier this month, the Royal Marines seized an Iranian oil tanker in Gibraltar on its way to Syria over suspicions it was in violation of EU sanctions. After threats of retaliation from Iran, London raised the threat level for British ships in Iranian waters to "critical," the highest level.

    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  11. #51
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    I guess I missed that. Thanks @Kathianne

    So especially since the UK so far has not asked, it is not our business.

    So ... the very people that want the deal with Iran are imposing sanctions on Iran. Yeah, THAT makes sense

    In the meantime, the President of the US has invoked the Rand Paul option to Iran to cause who knows what kind of mischief.

    I see this working out well
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  13. #52
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    Last I heard the UK was all huff'n and puff'n sounding all tough, release our ship or there'll be serious consequences to pay, blah, blah, blah... and now it's back peddle time?

    And if all these leftist Europeans don't like our president enough to want our help, then fine, screw 'em. Let 'em get slapped around by Iran some more... whatever.
    Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 07-21-2019 at 08:39 AM.

  14. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Question: ( I really don't know) On WHOSE authority did the UK seize an Iranian ship? I know I'm asking a lot for some logic out of this crap

    the US reimposed sanctions on Iran. The other countries in the deal are still trying for a deal with a snake. Who else has sanctions on Iran and what are they using as authority to enforce them?
    This, as it's turning out, is an interesting question. It's apparently difficult to get a proper answer.

    I initially thought that it came out of a suspicion the Gibraltarian authorities had ... that they'd quickly consulted with London, and consensus was that action to seize the ship had to be taken to check things out.

    But I've seen nothing (yet) online to back up that belief.

    I've come across this .. one of a number of sources online for this same article:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07...ker-off-spain/

    Pertinent quote:

    .. Earlier this month, Royal Marines boarded a large Iranian tanker, the Grace 1 at Gibraltar, claiming it was transporting crude oil to be refined in President Assad’s Syria. This delivery of oil was said to be in breach of EU sanctions.

    The problem here is that Iran is not an EU member and so no EU sanctions apply to it. Did Britain act at the prompting of America?

    It is a matter of urgency to discover which Minister in London took it upon themselves to order such an operation, since it was almost bound to elicit an Iranian response.
    The article is dated 21st July.

    I don't know if I trust the article or not .. it has its biased direction ... such as:

    A deal offering some sort of trade-off between the impounded Grace 1 and the Stena Impero is now an absolute priority for the new PM. While we are about it, the UK should reimburse Tehran the £400 million it owes for Chieftain tanks which Iran paid in the days of the Shah. We took the money but did not deliver the tanks.
    .. Sympathy for how we've supposedly shafted Iran in times past (the writer has to go back several decades, for his example) !! And, the suggestion of a trade-off deal, which solves absolutely nothing about Iran's ongoing belligerence.

    All that's currently clear is that the UK is - as the latest BBC news broadcast claims - exploring every possible diplomatic avenue it can to defuse things. So, yes. We want to talk. NOT to ACT.

    I really want to see how this plays out for Jeremy Hunt's hopes of becoming PM. We should know in the next couple of days. Will Hunt's weakness harm his voter base, or, will Conservatives approve of his 'diplomacy at almost all costs' approach and think it 'enlightened' ?
    Last edited by Drummond; 07-21-2019 at 12:53 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  16. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    This, as it's turning out, is an interesting question. It's apparently difficult to get a proper answer.

    I initially thought that it came out of a suspicion the Gibraltarian authorities had ... that they'd quickly consulted with London, and consensus was that action to seize the ship had to be taken to check things out.

    But I've seen nothing (yet) online to back up that belief.

    I've come across this .. one of a number of sources online for this same article:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07...ker-off-spain/

    Pertinent quote:



    The article is dated 21st July.

    I don't know if I trust the article or not .. it has its biased direction ... such as:



    .. Sympathy for how we've supposedly shafted Iran in times past (the writer has to go back several decades, for his example) !! And, the suggestion of a trade-off deal, which solves absolutely nothing about Iran's ongoing belligerence.

    All that's currently clear is that the UK is - as the latest BBC news broadcast claims - exploring every possible diplomatic avenue it can to defuse things. So, yes. We want to talk. NOT to ACT.

    I really want to see how this plays out for Jeremy Hunt's hopes of becoming PM. We should know in the next couple of days. Will Hunt's weakness harm his voter base, or, will Conservatives approve of his 'diplomacy at almost all costs' approach and think it 'enlightened' ?

    I'm not sure, but does this work?

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...anctions/iran/


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  17. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    This, as it's turning out, is an interesting question. It's apparently difficult to get a proper answer.

    I initially thought that it came out of a suspicion the Gibraltarian authorities had ... that they'd quickly consulted with London, and consensus was that action to seize the ship had to be taken to check things out.

    But I've seen nothing (yet) online to back up that belief.

    I've come across this .. one of a number of sources online for this same article:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07...ker-off-spain/

    Pertinent quote:



    The article is dated 21st July.

    I don't know if I trust the article or not .. it has its biased direction ... such as:



    .. Sympathy for how we've supposedly shafted Iran in times past (the writer has to go back several decades, for his example) !! And, the suggestion of a trade-off deal, which solves absolutely nothing about Iran's ongoing belligerence.

    All that's currently clear is that the UK is - as the latest BBC news broadcast claims - exploring every possible diplomatic avenue it can to defuse things. So, yes. We want to talk. NOT to ACT.

    I really want to see how this plays out for Jeremy Hunt's hopes of becoming PM. We should know in the next couple of days. Will Hunt's weakness harm his voter base, or, will Conservatives approve of his 'diplomacy at almost all costs' approach and think it 'enlightened' ?
    I'm just trying to make sure I know who is doing what and why before opening my mouth . If the UK sank an Iranian tanker it would be one less Iranian tanker in the world . I just know all the talking heads have to be referencing (hiding behind) some authority or they surely would not act.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  19. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I'm just trying to make sure I know who is doing what and why before opening my mouth . If the UK sank an Iranian tanker it would be one less Iranian tanker in the world . I just know all the talking heads have to be referencing (hiding behind) some authority or they surely would not act.
    I'm still hoping he will answer about the link I provided. I don't pretend to know the whys and what fors of the UK or EU.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    I've been doing some things around the home, hadn't had time to do more than just check in and see what's going on here as a break from dust.

    Just looked to see what's what on "Iran" and this was top:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iran-uk-tanker

    Jeremy Hunt under pressure to back plan for Gulf force as Iran digs in


    Tehran signals it will not release British-flagged tanker until UK frees one of its vessels


    The foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, is under intense pressure to join US-led plans for an international maritime protection force in the Gulf as signs grow that Iran is preparing for a long standoff over the British-flagged tanker it has detained.


    As Tehran signalled it would refuse to release the Steno Impero until the UK released an Iranian-flagged ship seized off the coast of Gibraltar a fortnight ago, the British government faced accusations it had failed to sufficiently guard its shipping in the Gulf.


    Adding to the tensions, the defence minister, Tobias Ellwood, said cuts had left the Royal Navy too small to manage Britain’s interests around the globe.


    Senior Tory backbenchers including figures close to Boris Johnson, who is expected to become prime minister this week, are angry at the government’s reluctance to accept an offer from Washington to protect British vessels in the region. The capture of the Stena Impero on Friday was widely seen as an avoidable error for which ministers had ample warning.


    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  22. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I've been doing some things around the home, hadn't had time to do more than just check in and see what's going on here as a break from dust.

    Just looked to see what's what on "Iran" and this was top:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iran-uk-tanker
    Simple. Empty the tanker and return it.

    I feel for the Royal Navy. When I joined the Marine Corps in 1980, we still were getting and using equipment from the Vietnam War because our military had been neglected for 10 years. I think President Carter's failed rescue attempt in Iran pretty much stated as much to the world.

    All of these dumbass leftwingers think they can talk their way into and out of everything. They weren't around when it was worked and fought for and think they are just entitled to it.

    And they're sticking to it no matter how many times the bully hits them with a stick.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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  24. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Simple. Empty the tanker and return it.

    I feel for the Royal Navy. When I joined the Marine Corps in 1980, we still were getting and using equipment from the Vietnam War because our military had been neglected for 10 years. I think President Carter's failed rescue attempt in Iran pretty much stated as much to the world.

    All of these dumbass leftwingers think they can talk their way into and out of everything. They weren't around when it was worked and fought for and think they are just entitled to it.

    And they're sticking to it no matter how many times the bully hits them with a stick.

    Yeah, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to my opinion on whether or not to use the military. IMO, it should only be used when it is determined that we can't get what we need or want through diplomacy and we ARE going to get it. THEN, let the military go and do what they are well trained for, then get them out.

    Again, IMO, minimize civilian casualties, but do not go insane that when the military is loosed, things will happen. Persecute crimes, such as My Lai, but don't take everything that happens into a cause to go after the military and certainly not individuals without major proof of intent. War sucks. For the military on every side of the conflict. Abu Ghraib being an example of the US overreacting to a bad event, but not worthy of changing goals and objectives. That's my opinion.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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