Now you've lost me. Not sure what this kerfuffle between Drummond and me has to do with Putin, but ok.Originally Posted by Gunny
Super Minion
Now you've lost me. Not sure what this kerfuffle between Drummond and me has to do with Putin, but ok.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
.... ah ... I hadn't spotted this. 'My bad', as Americans say ...
Answering: NO areas of Britain are like that. Not NOW.
They ONCE were. Why ? Because, back in the days when such outrages were not only possible or commonplace, Britain didn't have any hardline Conservative figure in place to help save us from it. Churchill had not only lost power, he'd even died (his funeral was in early '65, I think).
What we had was a Union-friendly, comparatively hardline, Labour Government, led by Harold Wilson. We had two terms of it, before Ted Heath took power, for the Conservatives.
The Unions were not happy.
A coalition of miners and power workers, between them, went on strike. Industries and offices were starved of power for two working days each week. Homes shivered in the cold of winter, starved of electricity and coal.
Ted Heath called an election. People chose the easy option, and the Unions won. Labour kicked out the Conservatives. Result ... virtually no restraint on wage claims. Inflation rocketed. The Pound was devalued.
Jim Callaghan took over from Wilson, got a measure of control over wages. The economy became relatively stable .. for a while. Unfortunately, Callaghan was only successful because he'd done a deal with Unions. They rebelled. The sheer chaos of the Winter of Discontent, wave after wave of strikes, followed.
With our manufacturing base on its knees .. with other powers calling us 'The Sick Man of Europe' ... Callaghan lost a No Confidence vote in the Commons. We had an election, won by Mrs Thatcher.
HER HARDLINE, HARD-NOSED, CONSERVATIVE LEADERSHIP TURNED IT ALL AROUND.
To this day, Unions have never again been able to foist ruination upon us.
So, Kath. Persuade me that hardline pro-Conservative leadership is a BAD thing.
Go on. Give it your best shot.
If you doubt anything I've told you .. DO THE RESEARCH.
It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!
Just Me
Yeah, I was just kinda wondering what this little whatever you called it with you and Drummond has to do with the topic
When we were on "that" in one of these threads I made mention of the fact that we were missing something. In this case, someone. Putin.
The arguably 2nd most powerful man on Earth already with a military toe-hold in the region has been dead silent.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke
Thatcherite Minion
Correction: you're running away from taking my assignment.
My reality is indeed mine. Ah, but, how did my reality come about ?
Because, Kath, my society gave Socialists the power to win out, to do what they wanted. The result was misery and chaos.
What makes you think that, if Socialism takes hold in America, EVER, that you're immune to 'my reality' ? What convinces you ? Is it smugness ? Is it a belief that 'American Socialism' just can't be as bad ???
I can't make you see a truth you prefer not to see, Kathianne. But at least admit that you ARE refusing to see it.
My truth, and reality, tells me that you're lucky to have President Trump in charge. I know that the alternative is orders of magnitude worse.
... and you choose not to see this. It is your CHOICE.
Super Minion
I'm not going to bother with your scavenger hunts, I've told you that already. I did do a quick search to see if Britain is now filth free:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a7484046.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8899821.html
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
OK, thanks for those photos.
The context of them, is .... ??
A couple of points:
1. You haven't shown me that strikes are responsible for any of the rubbish shown.
2. One shows a tiny area of refuse ... I reckon around 4-5 trash bins could contain it all .. hardly comparable to the Leicester Square picture I posted (which DID have a strike as its cause) ... is it ? As for the other, what are you showing us ? An area designated as a dumping ground, designed / intended to be one ?
One fact you might want to consider is that refuse collections, in many areas, aren't as frequent as they were decades ago.
... and, yes ... the Unions are, by and large, happy.
Ah, Kath. Where's a Mrs Thatcher figure when you really need one, eh .. ?
Last edited by Drummond; 07-21-2019 at 07:01 PM.
Super Minion
It was our economy and both the 'liberals' and 'conservatives' that curtailed unions here-go study!
The unions went too far regarding violence and salaries. Sort of what we are now seeing currently with the nonsense of 'living wage.' Note Bernie's route. (LOL! Some liberal, some socialist!)
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
Remarkable, if true, and I suppose it proves that your 'liberals' are a far softer version of Leftie than our Socialists were (and currently ARE).It was our economy and both the 'liberals' and 'conservatives' that curtailed unions here-go study!
But that's to the good. I'm genuinely happy for you. Long may that be so.
That's interesting. What you call the nonsense of the 'living wage' .. we have our equivalent of, and we've had that for a considerable time. The 'minimum wage' is what we call it.The unions went too far regarding violence and salaries. Sort of what we are now seeing currently with the nonsense of 'living wage.' Note Bernie's route. (LOL! Some liberal, some socialist!)
I recall the time it was first suggested. Many people called it unworkable, and I was one of them. I didn't think our economy could afford it as a long-term measure.
And, yes: it was introduced AFTER we lost our hardline Conservative leadership (in 1999). See this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2465397.stm
Need I say this ? Yes ... it was a LABOUR Government which introduced it. What a surprise ..A legally-binding minimum rate of pay has been introduced in Britain for the first time. From today all adults must be paid at least £3.60 an hour and workers under the age of 22 must get no less than £3 an hour.
A government body has been set up to ensure employers comply with the new wage levels.
Firms face a fine of up to £5,000 for each worker who is paid below the statutory minimum.
This was one area where I was proved wrong, though. The minimum wage is being afforded, to this day. We've managed it. Not that it 'can't' be, though, because this is one area where our Conservatives dare not tamper. If a Conservative Government tried, it could forget being re-elected.
It's not as though we've a Conservative leader of such strength that he / she could ever win through. Not on that.
Last edited by Drummond; 07-21-2019 at 07:22 PM.
Super Minion
Remarkable, if true, and I suppose it proves that your 'liberals' are a far softer version of Leftie than our Socialists were (and currently ARE).
But that's to the good. I'm genuinely happy for you. Long may that be so.
That's interesting. What you call the nonsense of the 'living wage' .. we have our equivalent of, and we've had that for a considerable time. The 'minimum wage' is what we call it.
I recall the time it was first suggested. Many people called it unworkable, and I was one of them. I didn't think our economy could afford it as a long-term measure.
And, yes: it was introduced AFTER we lost our hardline Conservative leadership (in 1999). See this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2465397.stm
Need I say this ? Yes ... it was a LABOUR Government which introduced it. What a surprise ..
This was one area where I was proved wrong, though. The minimum wage is being afforded, to this day. We've managed it. Not that it 'can't' be, though, because this is one area where our Conservatives dare not tamper. If a Conservative Government tried, it could forget being re-elected.
It's not as though we've a Conservative leader of such strength that he / she could ever win through. Not on that.
One can keep lamenting how things are; how worse they were, (as you seem to be with work stoppages union related); one can go somewhere better; accept what is; work to change it.
What gets a bit tiresome to me is to constantly tell citizens of another country how they should vote or they are freakin' worthless, and will end up as your country. You assume a mantle of all knowing regarding our country, yet have been shocked most recently how our judicial system works.
I for one, appreciate other's points of view-including yours. What I don't appreciate and have always had a problem with, is your insufferable pomposity of being all knowing regarding our country.
Bully for you on liking Trump, I felt the same about Mrs. Thatcher, but I would not dare tell a Briton they were for the downfall of their country if they didn't vote for her.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
'Lamenting', isn't the point. Learning the lesson from history, is. The point is to learn, ensure that the lesson taught translates into a remedy that sticks.
I don't know where 'freakin' worthless' comes from. I don't recall ever saying such a thing.What gets a bit tiresome to me is to constantly tell citizens of another country how they should vote or they are freakin' worthless, and will end up as your country. You assume a mantle of all knowing regarding our country, yet have been shocked most recently how our judicial system works.
I do believe that we can teach from example. It so happens that my society has made mistakes, and very bad ones. They are all a matter of record. Latitude exists for others to learn from us and not make the mistakes we made.
I don't see why you don't profit from that. Why shouldn't you ? The incredible thing is, that you've the very strength and style of leadership that DOES offer you immunity from such error, and you don't even appreciate it ! You've superior political leadership handed to you on a plate, and - seemingly blind to seeing what's worse - there are Americans who don't appreciate their good fortune. Some want to actively fight it. Well ... what are they fighting to replace it, with ?
Do they know what they risk ?
Do they care ?
It's up to them. But I for one don't wish for you to one day suffer a disaster that you could so easily have averted, if only you'd cared to, and valued instead what you had !!
As for being shocked at your judicial system: yes, very true. What can I say ? We avoided having judges who think they're above the law [and go on to shape it as they want]. I wish you could say the same.
SERIOUSLY ????I for one, appreciate other's points of view-including yours.
Your perception of my 'insufferable pomposity' is your own invention. I can't help you with it. Sorry.What I don't appreciate and have always had a problem with, is your insufferable pomposity of being all knowing regarding our country.
Thank you kindly !Bully for you on liking Trump
I don't see why not. You'd be entitled to that opinion, and you'd have good motivation driving you in expressing it .. which I should take time out to appreciate. My failure to listen wouldn't be your fault, it'd be mine, for being so blinkered that I was too arrogant to listen, maybe thinking I had nothing to learn, when the opposite was true.I felt the same about Mrs. Thatcher, but I would not dare tell a Briton they were for the downfall of their country if they didn't vote for her.
It would be my choice to make, though. There, you have a point.
Super Minion
'Lamenting', isn't the point. Learning the lesson from history, is. The point is to learn, ensure that the lesson taught translates into a remedy that sticks.
I don't know where 'freakin' worthless' comes from. I don't recall ever saying such a thing.
I do believe that we can teach from example. It so happens that my society has made mistakes, and very bad ones. They are all a matter of record. Latitude exists for others to learn from us and not make the mistakes we made.
I don't see why you don't profit from that. Why shouldn't you ? The incredible thing is, that you've the very strength and style of leadership that DOES offer you immunity from such error, and you don't even appreciate it ! You've superior political leadership handed to you on a plate, and - seemingly blind to seeing what's worse - there are Americans who don't appreciate their good fortune. Some want to actively fight it. Well ... what are they fighting to replace it, with ?
Do they know what they risk ?
Do they care ?
It's up to them. But I for one don't wish for you to one day suffer a disaster that you could so easily have averted, if only you'd cared to, and valued instead what you had !!
As for being shocked at your judicial system: yes, very true. What can I say ? We avoided having judges who think they're above the law [and go on to shape it as they want]. I wish you could say the same.
SERIOUSLY ????
Your perception of my 'insufferable pomposity' is your own invention. I can't help you with it. Sorry.
Thank you kindly !
I don't see why not. You'd be entitled to that opinion, and you'd have good motivation driving you in expressing it .. which I should take time out to appreciate. My failure to listen wouldn't be your fault, it'd be mine, for being so blinkered that I was too arrogant to listen, maybe thinking I had nothing to learn, when the opposite was true.
It would be my choice to make, though. There, you have a point.
LOL! I do wonder why you don't learn more from the US, regarding our revolution and judicial system and freedom to think what we wish-WITHOUT having to justify it to you by demand?
I do not find anything about your system of government, including judiciary, superior to ours. The only English politicians I've found of interest are Mrs. Thatcher and Winston Churchill, the rest? Nope. I would though love to visit your country, great history.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
Maybe there's a big difference between us, then. If you think you've got something worthwhile about the US that I could profit from learning, what's stopping you making that effort ? Why do you think I either wouldn't listen, or, had the right to demand not to listen ... when it could only be smug arrogance on my part that stopped me ?
I'll concede one point. When it comes to envisaging judges who tinker with the law, think they're entitled to, thereby placing themselves firmly ABOVE the law, instead, dictating it to others (for, in part, partisan advantage ?) ... I've a hard time not seeing that as an outrage. Find me the Brit who'd think otherwise.
If you think you can make your case, though .. go for it. I'm game.
You should now ! I've just concerned myself with one such example ... the example being, our judges would never take such extensive liberties with the law they're charged with working with.I do not find anything about your system of government, including judiciary, superior to ours.
To a great extent I think I agree with you ... the two examples cited are easily our most stellar (from 'modern' history, anyway). I wonder what Boris Johnson will bring us, though ? I think he might give a lot of people a very pleasant surprise.The only English politicians I've found of interest are Mrs. Thatcher and Winston Churchill, the rest? Nope. I would though love to visit your country, great history.
I hope you do visit someday. Some pointers, if you do ...
1. Don't wax lyrical about the joys of gun control. You're bound to get a frosty reception to that from many.
2. For God's sake, never publicly criticise Islam. Worst case scenario, you'll be arrested for it.
3. Likewise, say nothing detrimental about our NHS (no matter how good your argument). Ever see a Conservative politician here try it ... and you wouldn't see that politician for long. S/he would've just committed political suicide.
Last edited by Drummond; 07-21-2019 at 08:44 PM.
LongTermGuy thanked this post
Super Minion
Now all those things you 'recommend' I not do? You can do all those and more here. You won't be arrested, but depending upon your choice of venue, not going to say it would be without incident. Same as the ijits that light up a flag. It's not illegal, but may not be the brightest move to make.
"The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill
Thatcherite Minion
I never doubted it. Examples, unquestionably, of how, in many ways, your society is superior to mine.
I'm not a stranger to visiting, by the way. I've made no recent visits (meaning, this century !) .. but I've visited New York several times (& strayed further afield, to New Haven and Hartford). I've enjoyed every visit.
I've one good piece of news for you. Remember, I've never been vaccinated against anything, ever. It may be that I'll never set foot in the US again, and judging by your past posting, I'd imagine you'll cheer at that.
Lighting up a flag, meaning, setting fire to one ? Another difference. Patriotism, valuing your flag ... we've all but lost the equivalent sentiment. I can think of people who'd cheer if anyone set fire to the Union flag. Some even regard its very display as a sign of arrogant nationalism, racist, etc.You won't be arrested, but depending upon your choice of venue, not going to say it would be without incident. Same as the ijits that light up a flag. It's not illegal, but may not be the brightest move to make.
Just one of the joys coming from allowing Lefties to indoctrinate people, en masse ...
LongTermGuy thanked this post
Plant Parenthood.
I think ‘unprepared’ is exactly right - the U.K. political sphere is a mess at the minute, and sudden tensions with Iran adding to the calamity have caught everyone flat footed. There isn’t an appetite for another war that I have seen or heard of here, but if Bolton gets US troops marching on Iran whatever government we have will almost certainly have our troops marching alongside them
Incredible. To think this about oneself is one thing - but to type it out for the world to see is quite another. Please understand that the embarrassment you should feel about this statement is being felt by me, for you.
If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.
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