Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default Hong Kong-Many Flying The Union Jack

    Hey @Drummond, did you see this?

    https://areomagazine.com/2019/07/17/...ing-hong-kong/

    Why Postcolonial Theory Is Not Helping Hong Kong


    • Posted on

    July 17, 2019
    10 minute read
    byMelissa Chen




    It was a scene that seemed anachronistic and perplexing to Western observers. For a few brief moments on July 1st 2019, the 22nd anniversary of the handover of Hong Kong to China, the British colonial flag made an appearance on the lectern of the Hong Kong legislative chamber. For the young protesters who had stormed and occupied the building, it was a symbolic way to simultaneously express their unique Hong Kong identity and showcase their discontent with Chinese rule. There, it hung in the very chamber where laws were signed, bearing both the Union Jack and the Coat of Arms, the latter of which features a Chinese dragon and a crowned British lion gently grasping on to a pearl, calling to mind the exotic, panegyrical name bestowed upon the former British colony now known as the Special Administrative Region of China – the Pearl of the Orient.

    Over recent weeks, political turmoil raged in the form of mass demonstrations that saw 1 in 7 Hong Kong residents take to the streets to protest an extradition bill that would have allowed alleged suspects to be deported to stand trial in Mainland China, where the legal system is subject to the arbitrariness and discretion of the ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The fear that any dissident could be targeted isn’t unfounded as stories about billionaires and booksellers being kidnapped by Beijing operatives, only to be prosecuted in show trials on the Mainland and in some cases even tortured in jail, are well known. The extradition bill left almost no room for doubt about China’s ambitions to further override the civil rights guaranteed to the people of Hong Kong by the Sino-British Joint Declaration and renege on the agreed-upon “One Country, Two Systems” framework.


    Elsewhere, Union Jack flags were handed out and flown in the streets. As photographs of these flag-bearing protesters, many of whom cut across demographic lines, began making the rounds on social media, two things became apparent: a) the uneasy reluctance of mainstream Western media to conduct any sort of meaningful analysis of these scenes and b) the ready willingness of some quarters of Twitter to engage in vitriolic attacks of the Hong Kong protesters, accusing them of being complicit in colonialism.


    For those who embrace the ideological frameworks of various forms of “Social Justice” Theory including postcolonialism, decolonialism, critical race theory and intersectional feminism, seeing the Asian inhabitants of a former colony raise its colonial flag simply does not compute. Within this ideological conception of the world there is a very simple understanding of power dynamics in which oppression must always come from people seen as having dominant identities – white, male, western, heterosexual, cisgender, ablebodied and thin – and be inflicted upon those seen as having marginalized identities – people of color, colonized or indigenous people, women, LGBT, disabled and fat people. When all of these elements are considered together, we get the framework of ‘intersectionality’ and it is through the language and activism of intersectional scholars and activists that most people encounter these ideas.

    ...












    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  2. Thanks Drummond thanked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    11,895
    Thanks (Given)
    20722
    Thanks (Received)
    8222
    Likes (Given)
    2213
    Likes (Received)
    1128
    Piss Off (Given)
    5
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19319416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    No, I didn't. Thanks for posting this.

    It's WAY past my bedtime, & I need sleep ! I'll look in on this in greater detail after some needed shut-eye.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  4. Likes Kathianne liked this post
  5. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    11,895
    Thanks (Given)
    20722
    Thanks (Received)
    8222
    Likes (Given)
    2213
    Likes (Received)
    1128
    Piss Off (Given)
    5
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19319416

    Default

    I've skimmed the epistle.

    Anyone thinking my posts are long-winded ... read that link ! My God ....

    Not much is actually being said, is it, not in terms of real substance, or anything reaching a useful conclusion.

    It comes down to this. Hong Kong had a colonial past, courtesy of the British. It wasn't perfect, it had its faults, maybe the indigenous population fared less well under British rule than would've been ideal. Nonetheless, we were better for those people than the oppression they're now threatened with, courtesy of Beijing. Quite a lot better.

    People prospered, in a way nobody else would've been prepared to help facilitate.

    Does any of that surprise anybody in the slightest ?

    Ben Norton ... quite a vicious attack of his. Where do his views come from ? Is he a Leftie ?

    Those people in Hong Kong are fighting for their freedom. They no doubt have their memories of British values to inspire them.

    Naturally I wish them the best possible outcome. More ... I think the British should do whatever they (we !) can, to stand by them in their struggle.
    Last edited by Drummond; 07-22-2019 at 10:24 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  6. Thanks STTAB, Gunny, High_Plains_Drifter thanked this post
    Likes Kathianne liked this post
  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I've skimmed the epistle.

    Anyone thinking my posts are long-winded ... read that link ! My God ....

    Not much is actually being said, is it, not in terms of real substance, or anything reaching a useful conclusion.

    It comes down to this. Hong Kong had a colonial past, courtesy of the British. It wasn't perfect, it had its faults, maybe the indigenous population fared less well under British rule than would've been ideal. Nonetheless, we were better for those people than the oppression they're now threatened with, courtesy of Beijing. Quite a lot better.

    People prospered, in a way nobody else would've been prepared to help facilitate.

    Does any of that surprise anybody in the slightest ?

    Ben Norton ... quite a vicious attack of his. Where do his views come from ? Is he a Leftie ?

    Those people in Hong Kong are fighting for their freedom. They no doubt have their memories of British values to inspire them.

    Naturally I wish them the best possible outcome. More ... I think the British should do whatever they (we !) can, to stand by them in their struggle.

    I saw it more as a real exercise on the benefits of a democratic system over authoritarian one they've been under. Yes, colonial subject it was, but the Brits did learn something from our revolution.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    Looking more like full on revolution. Timing might not be great, China is not happy right now:

    https://nationalinterest.org/feature...volution-71491


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  9. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    China reacts:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9042626.html



    China warns Hong Kong protesters: ‘Those who play with fire will die by it’ as 12,000 police amass near border
    Officials say protests push city towards ‘dangerous abyss’ and warn punishment is ‘only a matter of time’


    Alessio Perrone
    15 hours ago

    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  10. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    5 days later:

    https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2...re-terrorists/


    Protesters Shut Down Hong Kong Airport As Chinese Authorities Begin Massing Armored Vehicles Nearby

    JOHN SEXTONPosted at 1:21 pm on August 12, 2019



    Protests against the Chinese government continue to escalate in Hong Kong. Monday, the city’s international airport was shut down after protesters showed up in large numbers. NPR reports the protesters may have selected the airport, in part, because they hoped police would be hesitant to get violent in front of international visitors:


    Thousands of demonstrators, wearing black clothing and carrying posters denouncing the police, filled the arrival and departure halls of Hong Kong International Airport on Monday, prompting the cancellation of more than 100 flights at one of the world’s busiest transportation hubs…


    Protesters accused the police of using aggressive tactics in an escalating attempt to suppress them — beating people and firing rubber bullets at close range. Police fired tear gas into an enclosed subway station, with the gas stagnating instead of dispersing. One woman was reportedly injured by a projectile that hit her eye — and she became the focal point on Monday for protesters, who carried signs on her behalf…


    On Monday, some protesters at the airport said they hoped the highly visible location, with foreigners passing through, might offer some protection against potential police brutality.

    ...

    When Ed wrote about Hong Kong last week he noted that there were some worrisome signs China seemed to be gearing itself up for a major crackdown on the protests, which are now entering their 10th week. Monday, China’s language escalated when it compared the protesters to terrorists. From Fox News:


    China on Monday used the strongest language yet to vilify the participants, with the Cabinet’s Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office in Beijing saying the protests are “beginning to show the sprouts of terrorism” and constitute an “existential threat” to the population of Hong Kong.


    “One must take resolute action toward this violent criminality, showing no leniency or mercy,” said a statement from spokesperson Yang Guang. “Hong Kong has reached an inflection point where all those who are concerned about Hong Kong’s future must say ‘no,’ to lawbreakers and ‘no’ to those engaged in violence.”


    Earlier Monday, Hong Kong police showed off water cannons that could be deployed in the case of future demonstrations, a development which Amnesty International has warned could lead to serious injuries if the canons are misused within the densely-populated city’s confined spaces.


    But it’s not just water cannons that are waiting in the wings. A state-controlled news outlet reported that armored vehicles have been assembling in Shenzhen, not far from Hong Kong and released this video:

    VIDEO AT SITE (tanks)

    It’s pretty hard to miss the signals China is sending: Back down or Tiananmen 2.0 is coming to your neighborhood.


    Senate Majority Leader McConnell tweeted a link this morning to a statement he issued last month. The statement reads in part, “The world is watching and wondering: If a government cannot respect the basic rights of people it claims as its own citizens, why on Earth would it be trusted to respect the rights and interests of its neighbors, its trading partners, or the companies that invest in its economy?” The world is watching and that may be the only thing that is keeping China from behaving like the brutal communist dictatorship it is.

    ...
    Last edited by Kathianne; 08-12-2019 at 12:43 PM.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  11. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    11,895
    Thanks (Given)
    20722
    Thanks (Received)
    8222
    Likes (Given)
    2213
    Likes (Received)
    1128
    Piss Off (Given)
    5
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19319416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Yes ... none of this 'looks good'. Not in terms of its disruption. Not in terms of an impression of 'mob rule', either.

    The Chinese authorities being what they are (authoritarian Lefties), they must be fighting down a collective urge (do they have any other kind ??) to go in there, and crush all rebellion.

    I think that this will be the only possible outcome.

    To 'cave in' to the Hong Kong protesters would be unacceptable to them. I don't think I need say why, it's way too obvious. They have the eyes of the world on them, and I don't think the Chinese want a repeat of a Tiananmen Square confrontation and outcome to be one witnessed by the world. So, they're holding back. BUT, that won't last, and China is already preparing their public defence of what they'll be drawn to do: they've started saying that 'There are signs of terrorism emerging'.

    This'll be a prelude to much stronger action. The protesters will only be viewed as a provocation, one not to be tolerated indefinitely.

    Nor will it be. China will do the Leftie thing, broadcast little to its own people of what's happening, most especially when they act with force to stamp out the protests.

    China will Leftily need THEIR version of reality to be triumphant in Hong Kong, and no other. No other reality could ever be tolerated. Nor will it be, I'm sure.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  12. Thanks Kathianne thanked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    I'm pessimistic for the people of Hong Kong, though not certain that in the long run this may lead to real change and not just for Hong Kong. First though, the social media conglomerates must be dealt with:

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/four-qu...as-communists/


    Four Questions as Hong Kong Rises to Protest China's Communists
    BY BRYAN PRESTON AUGUST 12, 2019

    The Chinese communist government must be feeling a sense a deja vu as Hong Kong's democracy protests gather strength. It was 30 years plus two months ago this summer that pro-democracy protesters gathered and then became a force on Tienanmen Square in Beijing. That protest saw peaceful Chinese citizens camp and sing and build a likeness of the Statue of Liberty to symbolize their quest for the freedoms we all too often take for granted: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, the freedom to be left alone.


    The ChiComs will surely have those events in Beijing in mind, but also events that played out that same year in Europe in mind as well. As I wrote a few weeks back, 1989-90 was a watershed in geopolitics. Communists in Beijing and Moscow took very different approaches to pro-democracy protests at that time. The Soviet Union allowed a trickle through the Berlin Wall in November 1989 to become a river, and then a torrent that emptied the Soviets of their power. The Soviet Union was dead by 1991.

    China took a different approach. It cracked down hard on its protesters in the summer of 1989. The communists sent in the so-called People's Liberation Army. It crushed the protests on June 4-5, 1989, killing as many as 10,000 of their own citizens. While the world condemned China's actions, its communist regime survived, while the Soviet government and its satellites did not.


    As China ponders a repeat of 1989, it faces a different world, and on different soil.


    How is Hong Kong different from Tienanmen Square?

    ...



    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    Looks like the Hong Kong police have started to calm down the situation at the airport. What happens after this? Beijing was sounding like they were getting ready to roll in.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    I started to notice the American flags the last few days or so. Pretty amazing how so many of those risking their lives hoping for more freedoms, see what we have. Yet so many here do not see what we have:

    https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2...ymbol-freedom/

    Some Hong Kong Protesters Are Waving American Flags As A Symbol Of Freedom
    JOHN SEXTONPosted at 1:01 pm on August 13, 2019

    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  16. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    11,895
    Thanks (Given)
    20722
    Thanks (Received)
    8222
    Likes (Given)
    2213
    Likes (Received)
    1128
    Piss Off (Given)
    5
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19319416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I started to notice the American flags the last few days or so. Pretty amazing how so many of those risking their lives hoping for more freedoms, see what we have. Yet so many here do not see what we have:

    https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2...ymbol-freedom/
    Those flags serve as symbols of freedom, as well as forms of opposition to all that the mainland China authority stands for.

    But this will not end well. Remember that I said China was beginning to suggest that terrorism was mixed into all of this ? I think they'll crack down, hard, if the Hong Kong authorities themselves can't quell the protests. They're preparing the propagandist ground for it now.

    Oh, and our Government here has voiced its views and concerns ... which has led to China telling us to mind our own business & 'stop meddling', saying that British influence in Hong Kong has long been a thing of the past.
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-13-2019 at 01:12 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Those flags serve as symbols of freedom, as well as forms of opposition to all that the mainland China authority stands for.

    But this will not end well. Remember that I said China was beginning to suggest that terrorism was mixed into all of this ? I think they'll crack down, hard, if the Hong Kong authorities themselves can't quell the protests. They're preparing the propagandist ground for it now.

    Oh, and our Government here has voiced its views and concerns ... which has led to China telling us to mind our own business & 'stop meddling', saying that British influence in Hong Kong has long been a thing of the past.
    I saw one of your politicians said that citizens of Hong Kong should have been given British passports in 1997. He wants to do that retroactively.

    BTW, the Hong Kong police have cleared the airport, I'm following Michael Yon to find out where the youth goes next or if they take some time off. The tanks are right outside of the airport.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  18. Thanks Drummond thanked this post
  19. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    11,895
    Thanks (Given)
    20722
    Thanks (Received)
    8222
    Likes (Given)
    2213
    Likes (Received)
    1128
    Piss Off (Given)
    5
    Piss Off (Received)
    0
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19319416

    Default

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...id=mailsignout

    Large numbers of Chinese paramilitary forces have been filmed assembling just 30km from Hong Kong in the city of Shenzhen, as the UN warned Beijing to exercise restraint in its response to growing unrest in the territory.

    Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing leader Carrie Lam said on Tuesday that the city had been placed on a “path of no return” after 10 weeks of increasingly disruptive protests.

    Flights at the international airport in Hong Kong were cancelled for a second day, as thousands of demonstrators gathered in the departure hall at the main terminal despite the implementation of increased security measures designed to keep them out.

    Chinese state media described the buildup of armed police units, shown in videos gathering at an arena called the Shenzhen Bay Sports Centre, as preparations for “apparent large-scale exercises”. Alexandre Krauss, a policy advisor for the EU's Committee on Foreign Affairs, called the videos a sign that "something extraordinarily bad is about to happen".

    Similar exercises on 6 August featured up to 12,000 troops, according to the Chinese state-run Global Times newspaper, and featured armoured personnel carriers, helicopters and amphibious vehicles.

    The newspaper described the People’s Armed Police forces as being mandated by Chinese law for “dealing with rebellions, riots, serious violent and illegal incidents, terrorist attacks and other social security incidents”.

    It is a further sign of Beijing’s waning patience with the unrest in Hong Kong, after the Chinese government said on Monday that the protest movement in the city had begun to show “sprouts of terrorism”.
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-13-2019 at 01:18 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  20. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    47,506
    Thanks (Given)
    23722
    Thanks (Received)
    17276
    Likes (Given)
    9555
    Likes (Received)
    6007
    Piss Off (Given)
    85
    Piss Off (Received)
    10
    Mentioned
    204 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475521

    Default

    The airport is open and flights are being to be set again. The demonstrators are out.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  21. Thanks Drummond thanked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums