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  1. #16
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    Yeah all this spending... I think most in Washington have come to the conclusion that the debt is already past paying off, so they're just spending like drunken sailors until it blows up. When we can no longer pay the interest on the debt, then they'll just try and wipe it out. Wave a magic wand and start all over, insto-presto, all debt is gone. That's actually what it would take, because trying to pay off the debt in real money, it isn't going to happen, ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by High_Plains_Drifter View Post
    Yeah all this spending... I think most in Washington have come to the conclusion that the debt is already past paying off, so they're just spending like drunken sailors until it blows up. When we can no longer pay the interest on the debt, then they'll just try and wipe it out. Wave a magic wand and start all over, insto-presto, all debt is gone. That's actually what it would take, because trying to pay off the debt in real money, it isn't going to happen, ever.
    Then we should take this mulligan now. Poof! I like it. I mean, what could go wrong?


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    already stated i agree with funding/spending bills. The republicans are growing to be just as guilty as the democrats in that department. They also allow way too much by the left, so that they can get the stuff in there they want. That's what they consider reaching across the aisle and working together. But it's not, not at where they should be. Ultimately, by both sides, they get funding for things they think are important. Usually the left is almost all pork bs entirely, and can be done without. The right somewhat the same, often unneeded crap from them too, and of course some decent things, but generally not a lot, and the most important things often get set aside.

    2nd amendment
    economy
    serve your constituents who voted (both locally, and in this case, the country aka america)
    no robin hoods
    help for veterans finally?
    Huge and effective "stick"
    no to socialism crap
    ...

    Those are things i wanted, 1/10th actually, same as i posted in the past. Most goals reached, a few failed, a few stalled & a few just can't get by democrats. But not all fault leaves home, he certainly hasn't been perfect, far from it, but still very good, imo.

    I'll give a few links of things i have been reading, some older than others - many repeating the lists of accomplishments i have already posted, or lists of conservative agendas and what has been met and/or failed. And a ton all around the net, of accomplishments we have heard very little or nothing about - thank you cnn, cbs, nbc, abc, pbs, msnbc - or reading the news: Ny times, cnn online, huffington post, poltico, buzzfeed, (rest of tv's online versions), yahoo news google, wsj, anything on fb or twitter (as right things get censored too often), bloomberg, npr, washington post, usa today, vox, slate... I'm sure quite a few more, but those are some you see being used and believed and widespread by the left quite often, and of course get traction.

    --

    anyway, here's an oldie/goodie. Accomplishments, not all conservative, but a many are.


    138 things trump did this year while you weren't looking

    behind the crazy headlines, more conservative priorities got pushed through than most people realize. An exhaustive list of what really happened to the government in 2017.

    in donald trump’s first act as president, he signed a high-profile executive order intended to dismantle obamacare, instructing federal agencies to take any measures they could to roll back the affordable care act. In retrospect, the vaguely worded directive was only symbolic. The trump administration did eventually make moves to obstruct the law, but they took months and another executive order to implement. For all the theater, it’s hard to say whether that order had any effect at all.

    Less noticed on inauguration day was a surprise move by the federal housing administration to scratch a planned reduction in mortgage insurance premiums. That change helped shore up the financial health of the fha’s mortgage insurance fund —but came at a real cost to homeowners, who would have saved an average of $500 a year if the obama-era plan had stayed in place.

    If you didn’t hear about the $500 you may have lost that day—well, that’s how the year went. The attention gap between the empty executive order and the real-life mortgage insurance rollback turned out to be representative of the whole first year of the trump administration.

    Again and again, trump has taken the stage to an adoring crowd and declared victory on some issue, or announced lavish new promises, without any real results or plans to back them up. Meanwhile, very steadily, and almost totally separately from trump’s speeches and tweetstorms, his administration has been ushering in a new conservative era of government—taking specific aim at obama-era rules, and broader aim at the big regulatory mission of government.

    At the agenda, we’ve been tracking these policy changes weekly since june, ignoring the noise and explaining what the trump administration actually accomplished each week. This week, we’re pulling them all into one mega-list—a portrait of a quiet but very serious republican push against the scope and ambition of government.

    What does it look like? There are a few consistent themes: Rolling back president barack obama’s legacy on everything from labor regulations to environmental protections, and more broadly tearing down rules across the government. Some topics have been largely missing: His infrastructure push has gone nowhere. Many of the rules are still in progress, or being delayed so long that it’s anyone’s guess what will really happen. (as you’ll see, some of our items are recurring episodes in long-running dramas, like what will finally happen to obama’s fiduciary standard, which required stockbrokers to act in the best interest of their clients.) and finally, there are some perplexing surprises. After all the rhetoric against china and mexico, the year’s big trade-war enemy has been … canada?

    Welcome to the annual wrap-up of our weekly guide to what trump did while you weren’t looking.

    June 3-9

    1. A boost for uber and mcdonald’s
    it’s the most controversial question in the labor world these days: When is a worker an employee, and when is he or she an independent contractor? That question has been especially controversial for “gig economy” companies like uber and postmates. But increasingly, regular businesses are also opting to classify their workers as independent contractors, which can cut their labor costs sharply by not obliging them to offer benefits like health insurance or pay employer payroll taxes. According to one recent study, the percentage of workers employed as contractors grew almost 30 percent from 2005 to 2015.

    In 2015, the obama administration gave workers a win on this one: It issued a guidance document explaining how the department of labor would interpret the law, outlining the economic tests it employed in determining whether an employer was misclassifying its workers. The agency had been using that policy in enforcing the law, but putting it in writing sent a clear message to employers across the country that the obama administration was serious about cracking down on worker misclassification.

    On wednesday, the trump administration withdrew the guidance document. This was a win for business owners in any number of sectors — not just uber, but industries such as farming and construction, which increasingly use independent contractors. The withdrawal of the document doesn’t change the underlying law, the fair labor standards act, or the dol’s current interpretation of it but sends a strong signal to employers that labor secretary alexander acosta plans to interpret it differently than his predecessor. “the big story is not that, for whatever reason, they pulled down guidance,” said david weil, who issued the document under obama. “the real question is what else comes with this.”

    acosta also withdrew another obama-era guidance document on how the department will determine whether a parent company, like mcdonald’s or subway, is jointly responsible for its franchises’ labor violations. As with worker misclassification, the obama-era dol interpreted the joint employment standard favorably for workers; its withdrawal is a victory for businesses.

    2. A trade war with mexico averted—for now
    trump has stormed on about the north american free trade agreement, calling it a “trading disaster” and vowing to rip it up, suggesting that a trade war with mexico may be on the horizon. But on tuesday, the united states and mexico went the other direction and actually came to a deal, averting a potential trade crisis when they ended a dispute on mexican sugar exports. The showdown was seen as a first test for the two countries as they, along with canada, seek to preserve and update nafta later this year.

    The sugar deal is a quintessentially in-the-weeds trade agreement: It raises the minimum prices for raw and refined sugar and cuts the percentage of mexico’s sugar exports that are refined from 53 percent to 30 percent, while redefining the purity level for refined sugar. The u.s. Sugar industry objected to the deal, arguing that it did not address loopholes that give mexican producers an unfair advantage in the u.s. Market. It wasn’t the win that industry wanted, but many experts were encouraged that the administration’s first big dispute with a major trading partner had an amicable ending.

    3. The end of a doj “slush fund”
    three years ago, when the department of justice settled a $17 billion settlement with bank of america over its mortgage lending practices, it came with a requirement: The bank had to pay $100 million to various legal and community groups, a sum intended to help homeowners hurt by bank of america’s wrongdoing. Many other doj settlements with financial institutions during the obama administration required similar payouts to outside groups.

    Conservatives have long objected to this practice, which was used by obama and, before him, george w. Bush: They see it as a way for a president to direct money to his favored organizations, illegally sidestepping the congressional appropriations process. The obama administration argued that so-called third-party settlements were simply another tool for reparations: The money, they said, didn’t go to random organizations but to groups that could help repair the damage caused by financial misdeeds. Opponents called it a “slush fund.”

    that ended wednesday , when attorney general jeff sessions issued a memo prohibiting u.s. Attorneys from including such third-party payouts in any settlements. When the department of justice settles a case from now on, third-party groups won’t get a dime.

    4. A win for nursing homes
    last october, the obama administration banned any nursing home that receives federal funding — which is most of them — from requiring that prospective tenants sign an arbitration agreement as a condition to be admitted, a common practice in the industry. Such agreements prevent residents from taking the facility to court, requiring them to appeal to an arbitration tribunal. Nursing homes prefer arbitration because it’s usually cheaper than getting sued; critics say it’s unfair to residents, who often have no idea they signed away their right to sue in court until they actually try to file charges, at which point the nursing home shows them the fine print.

    The nursing home industry fought the rule, suing the department of health and human services. In november, it won a temporary injunction against the regulation, so it never actually took effect. And now it may be dead. On tuesday, the trump administration signaled its view on arbitration agreements: The dhs issued a new proposed regulation that rolled back the obama rule. Because it’s not final, the new rule doesn’t immediately overturn the ban on arbitration agreements; it has to go through the same process as any other rule. But it sends a strong signal for where the administration will ultimately land.

    5. Get thaad out of here
    not every major policy change affecting america originates in washington. On wednesday, south korean president moon jae-in blocked the deployment of an american missile defense system intended to block missile attacks from north korea.

    The pentagon’s terminal high altitude area defense system became a hot-button issue in asia: China sees the north korea angle as a cover story for a system that’s really intended to block chinese missiles, an incursion on its sovereignty. (the pentagon disputes that argument.) it already was a delicate issue in south korea; beijing had been successfully using state media to persuade chinese consumers to boycott south korean stores and cancel vacation plans, which has hurt many korean businesses. Then trump rattled relations with its ally by insisting in april that south korea foot the $1 billion bill for the system, an idea later walked back by his national security team.

    Moon — a left-leaning leader who supports a more open dialogue with north korea than his scandal-plagued predecessor—was already reluctant to host thaad at all, but allowed its continued deployment until he discovered last week, to his surprise, that the pentagon had sent four more launchers into the country. On wednesday, he stopped any further deployment of the system—just a day before north korea conducted its 10th missile test of the year.

    June 10–16

    1. U.s. And china make nice on beef, dairy and poultry
    throughout his campaign, trump railed against chinese trade policies, vowing to label the country a currency manipulator and scaring the business community that a trade war was on the horizon. But trump backed off his promise to officially label beijing a “currency manipulator.” and in may, commerce secretary wilbur ross announced the u.s.-china 100-day trade agreement, calling it a “herculean accomplishment.”

    still, trade experts who looked at the details of the agreement, were less convinced. Many of the ten policy changes were already underway; on the new changes, china made few firm commitments.

    This week, a trio of trade announcements revealed there was more substance to the deal than originally thought, if not quite “herculean.” on tuesday, the department of agriculture announced it had finalized an agreement with its chinese counterparts to allow u.s. Beef imports into china, breaking a 14-year ban that beijing has more-than-once promised to end. On thursday, the u.s. And china signed a memorandum to promote u.s dairy products in china , and , on friday, the usda published a proposed rule to allow chinese poultry products into the u.s.

    These aren’t huge changes to the u.s.-china trade relationship, and some were in the works long before trump took office. In fact, china promised last september to lift the ban on u.s. Beef exports; the dairy agreement wasn’t actually part of the “100-day” trade deal. But the trio of agreements show that even as trump rails against beijing’s trade policies, the two sides are still capable of compromising. For all the eye rolls that trump’s initial “100-day” deal invited, it’s looking a lot more real two months later, especially once beef shipments actually arrive in china, which ross estimated could be as soon as 10 days. “everyone has been justified in taking a wait and see attitude,” said bruce hirsh, a former assistant u.s. Trade representative. “even now, until actual shipments are accepted, it's best to wait and see.”

    2. Education department targets obama-era student protections
    with student-loan debt a trillion-dollar issue, the obama administration announced a new policy last october that would allow defrauded borrowers to have their federal student loans cancel ed—an expensive proposition for the government, which would cover the cost. Student advocates, who had long pushed obama to adopt such a rule, cheered the news, arguing it was simply a matter of fairness.

    One problem: The rule wasn’t scheduled to take effect until july 1—and now it looks like it will never take effect. Education secretary betsy devos announced this week that the agency was delaying the implementation of the so-called “defense to repayment” rule indefinitely, on the grounds that it is the subject of an ongoing lawsuit. In effect, this means the idea is almost certainly dead: Devos also announced that the department intends to rewrite the rule altogether, along with another major obama-era education rule, known as “gainful employment,” that required colleges to meet certain standards or risk losing access to federal student loan dollars.

    Unlike “defense to repayment,” the “gainful employment” rule was finalized in 2014 and had already taken effect, so the trump administration will have to undertake a full rulemaking process to rewrite it, a time-consuming process.

    The changes are a defeat for defrauded students and a big victory for for-profit colleges, which are disproportionately represented among both loan-fraud cases and colleges that leave students with high debt levels. For-profits loudly argued that the obama administration was effectively trying to choke out the industry altogether. This week, devos gave it new life.

    Rest - https://www.politico.com/agenda/stor...es-2017-000603


    a little more recent, from march 2018


    the incredible trump agenda – what most americans don’t know about the war the president has waged

    key takeaways

    • the once-in-a-generation tax reform passed in december reflected the fundamental changes we recommended to transform the tax code.
    • conservatives cheered the nomination and confirmation of neil gorsuch, a strong constitutionalist, to the u.s. Supreme court.
    • but the scores of principled conservatives president trump has brought into the executive branch have very much kept their eye on the ball.


    president trump’s style has dismayed many on the right as well as the left. But when it comes to actions, conservatives find much to delight them.

    While the 2016 presidential elections were underway, policy analysts at the heritage foundation (my employer and one of the nation’s leading think tanks) compiled a six-volume series of conservative, research-based policy recommendations for the next president.

    The recommendations were calculated to help the incoming president and congress jumpstart the economy, strengthen national security and halt the increasing centralization of power in the federal government.

    at the end of 2017, we reviewed all 334 recommendations presented in our “mandate for leadership” series and found that the trump administration had embraced fully 64 percent of them. That’s nearly two out of three – and that’s very good indeed.

    most americans are already familiar with some of the conservative agenda items adopted in the last year.

    The once-in-a-generation tax reform passed in december, for example, reflected the fundamental changes we recommended to transform the tax code from one that penalized economic growth to one that promotes it. Already, the american people have begun to reap the benefits: Higher take-home pay, tax cut-fueled bonuses and a burgeoning job market.

    and many are aware of how congress acted on another key recommendations to exercise its authority under the long-ignored congressional review act (cra) to overturn ill-considered rules implemented by regulatory agencies. During the first few months of its session, congress used cra resolutions to eliminate 14 major rules finalized by the obama administration in its waning days.

    but relatively few americans are aware that the president has waged his own war on over-regulation. For example, president trump has lifted the obama-era moratorium on coal leases on federal lands. And he has instructed executive branch agencies to review and reconsider pending rules, with a goal of eliminating two regulations for every new one implemented.

    by year’s end, the trump administration had withdrawn or delayed 1,500 proposed regulations. it has made a difference. On dec. 14, the administration reported that the regulatory rollback had saved the american economy $8.1 billion, and would save another $9.8 billion in fiscal 2019.

    Conservatives cheered the nomination and confirmation of neil gorsuch, a strong constitutionalist, to the u.s. Supreme court. and president trump followed this up with many other outstanding judicial appointments.

    by the end of 2017, the senate had confirmed 12 circuit court of appeals judges – the largest number of appellate judges confirmed during the first year of any president in history. Why does that matter? Because most federal cases stop at the appellate level. Only one of every 700 cases heard by these courts goes on to the supreme court.

    president trump has eschewed president obama’s practice of filling these slots with activist judges who interpret the laws as what they think the laws should say, rather than as they are actually written. It’s a huge change – and a tremendous boost for the rule of law.

    From pulling america out of the unaffordable and unworkable paris protocol on climate change to ending the damaging obama era regulations on net neutrality, the trump administration has advanced a broad conservative agenda on dozens more fronts in 2017.

    yes, there is much more work to do. The senate badly fumbled obamacare repeal last year, leaving millions of americans saddled with increasingly unaffordable health coverage. Welfare reform remains a major challenge, and restoring some sense of fiscal responsibility to washington seems as elusive as ever.

    but make no mistake, 2017 was a banner year for conservative policy victories. on that score, president trump can confidently stack his record right up there next to president reagan’s first year.

    the politicians and pundits of the left would lead you to believe that the administration has been just as distracted and discombobulated by the president’s tweets as they have been. But the scores of principled conservatives president trump has brought into the executive branch have very much kept their eye on the ball. The conservative agenda is marching forward.

    https://www.heritage.org/conservatis...ut-the-war-the

    maga!


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Then we should take this mulligan now. Poof! I like it. I mean, what could go wrong?
    Not much really. No worse than replacing every building in this country, every car in this country and MUCH more to the tune of $93 trillion more, and then pay people who don't wanna work (how many low paid workers would quit?), make schools free & of course wipe out all current student loan debt. No borders, less laws and less enforcement of various things. Kill the current debt, do all of those things, then just kill that debt too! We'll be in a frickin state of Utopia, I can't wait!!
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    maga!
    Well, at least we were both civil, no fights, and apparently we disagree - and this is apparently where I move on to another thread.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Not much really. No worse than replacing every building in this country, every car in this country and MUCH more to the tune of $93 trillion more, and then pay people who don't wanna work (how many low paid workers would quit?), make schools free & of course wipe out all current student loan debt. No borders, less laws and less enforcement of various things. Kill the current debt, do all of those things, then just kill that debt too! We'll be in a frickin state of Utopia, I can't wait!!

    Hey, compromise!


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Well, at least we were both civil, no fights, and apparently we disagree - and this is apparently where I move on to another thread.
    I thought that was the correct response to the list? I'm trying to go along.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I thought that was the correct response to the list? I'm trying to go along.
    Well, although we disagreed, I remained sarcastic free and spent quite a bit on that last post to express myself with facts/opinions - and get a one worder of sarcasm in reply. I have no desire to go sarcastic or defensive/offensive mode, and certainly not with friends. That's how bad feelings get started, with sarcasm often.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    I mean I suppose that actually working together is progress, but yeah this totally contradicts Trump's "I'll never sign another bill like this" bullshit from last year.

    Puts Democrats in some kinda bind too, on the one hand they most definitely want to bash Trump for not keeping his word, on the other hand they don't want to draw too much attention to the fact that they actually worked with him on something.

    Myself I'm sick of omnibus spending bills, they should be outlawed. Congress should be forced to each year fund each department of the government in a separate bill. Why the fuck is military spending in any way tied to , for example, welfare? I'm sick of "okay well we had to give millions to Guatamala to get Democrats to agree to fund the millitary" or what have you. Put them on separate bills. Now of course I realize that scum being scum these guys would just make back room deals "you vote for my bill I vote for yours" but at least we'd have the illlusion of straight up votes

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    Well, although we disagreed, I remained sarcastic free and spent quite a bit on that last post to express myself with facts/opinions - and get a one worder of sarcasm in reply. I have no desire to go sarcastic or defensive/offensive mode, and certainly not with friends. That's how bad feelings get started, with sarcasm often.
    I apologize for going to snark, but I thought the same when you went to 'accomplishments' instead of staying with the budget, or rather lack thereof. I've said repeatedly, even earlier in this thread, that the President has accomplished things that I agree with. That doesn't take away from the many that are not conservative. When you post a list of tens, if not over a hundred things, there's no way to turn that into a discussion.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I apologize for going to snark, but I thought the same when you went to 'accomplishments' instead of staying with the budget, or rather lack thereof. I've said repeatedly, even earlier in this thread, that the President has accomplished things that I agree with. That doesn't take away from the many that are not conservative. When you post a list of tens, if not over a hundred things, there's no way to turn that into a discussion.
    I was simply replying to the part that it was stated that Trump was not a conservative. I admitted that the republicans have all agreed to yet more spending, and I disagree with that, and that Trump isn't vetoing things nor trying the approach he did last time, shutting things down. That he was not entirely responsible for this latest bill, but shares his responsibility of course - so he's not innocent. The whole collective bunch are responsible. I agreed fully here and explained why, with my caveats.

    But I disagreed with this making him some form of leftie or liberal, and further explained why, and how I was looking at the totality of things, and each individually. But then you even asked me - WHERE ELSE did I see any compromise, and what else/when will we see it. I assume you were of course speaking of this bill, and then some, as you asked where else. Then even you pointed out things about deregulatory. While a different subject, it was about spending.

    So I went on to explain that I had thought he had accomplished conservative agendas in addition to this and pointed some out. I stated at that point - I am speaking overall as a president. You mentioned his policies again as a whole, and accomplishments, just that 'few' were conservative.

    I then listed a few things that I had long ago stated I wanted, and looked at as conservative myself, if not common sense. Then a posted a few supporting articles of accomplishments, but more importantly, a few that listed accomplishments that were conservative.

    I didn't write all that again to be snarky, no way, you're a friend Kath! I just laying out important things as I saw them, and I had zero issue with the conversation. Neither was posting what I did in ANY way meant to be snarky or sarcastic to you. The 'prior to articles' writing was top of my head thoughts, nothing to note of sarcasm or whatever, just normal stuff. Then just followed by the 2 articles. Within them, I scanned and tried to highlight what I thought were good conservative things. I'm confident that not everyone would agree, but that's to be expected in political discussions. And then the maga comment.

    Admittedly all those things aren't on topic with strictly this budget bill. But I also don't think this one thing makes him a liberal, or not a conservative. And admittedly once again, I know that's solely my opinion only.

    No need with the sorry, we're friends, but that's whay I walk away at times, whether you or others, as I'd rather not take chances as I know I "can" get into moods and post things I regret, and I'm trying to avoid that right now, especially with my friends, and sometimes with long time members, depending.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    I was simply replying to the part that it was stated that Trump was not a conservative. I admitted that the republicans have all agreed to yet more spending, and I disagree with that, and that Trump isn't vetoing things nor trying the approach he did last time, shutting things down. That he was not entirely responsible for this latest bill, but shares his responsibility of course - so he's not innocent. The whole collective bunch are responsible. I agreed fully here and explained why, with my caveats.

    But I disagreed with this making him some form of leftie or liberal, and further explained why, and how I was looking at the totality of things, and each individually. But then you even asked me - WHERE ELSE did I see any compromise, and what else/when will we see it. I assume you were of course speaking of this bill, and then some, as you asked where else. Then even you pointed out things about deregulatory. While a different subject, it was about spending.

    So I went on to explain that I had thought he had accomplished conservative agendas in addition to this and pointed some out. I stated at that point - I am speaking overall as a president. You mentioned his policies again as a whole, and accomplishments, just that 'few' were conservative.

    I then listed a few things that I had long ago stated I wanted, and looked at as conservative myself, if not common sense. Then a posted a few supporting articles of accomplishments, but more importantly, a few that listed accomplishments that were conservative.

    I didn't write all that again to be snarky, no way, you're a friend Kath! I just laying out important things as I saw them, and I had zero issue with the conversation. Neither was posting what I did in ANY way meant to be snarky or sarcastic to you. The 'prior to articles' writing was top of my head thoughts, nothing to note of sarcasm or whatever, just normal stuff. Then just followed by the 2 articles. Within them, I scanned and tried to highlight what I thought were good conservative things. I'm confident that not everyone would agree, but that's to be expected in political discussions. And then the maga comment.

    Admittedly all those things aren't on topic with strictly this budget bill. But I also don't think this one thing makes him a liberal, or not a conservative. And admittedly once again, I know that's solely my opinion only.

    No need with the sorry, we're friends, but that's whay I walk away at times, whether you or others, as I'd rather not take chances as I know I "can" get into moods and post things I regret, and I'm trying to avoid that right now, especially with my friends, and sometimes with long time members, depending.

    Here's where I see our understandings being different. I have not seen any efforts by Democrats to 'compromise' on one thing-good or bad-until this 'budget' or rather funding for spending, since last year's. That alone should give anyone pause. NOTE-I've not said that the President hasn't tried for compromise, he just hasn't succeeded at finding any.

    No matter how we see this, it won't likely be our problem, but will be for our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren-our posterity.

    https://issuesinsights.com/2019/07/2...c-proportions/




    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I apologize for going to snark, but I thought the same when you went to 'accomplishments' instead of staying with the budget, or rather lack thereof. I've said repeatedly, even earlier in this thread, that the President has accomplished things that I agree with. That doesn't take away from the many that are not conservative. When you post a list of tens, if not over a hundred things, there's no way to turn that into a discussion.
    I would hazard a guess that many of his voters realized Trump wasn't an actual conservative when they voted for him .

    That is actually what is so frustrating about the God damned Democrats, this IS the President that could have convinced conservatives to give in on some issues in order to get some things they want. But the fucking Democrats, that's not good enough for them, even when they lose elections they expect to get everything they want without compromising a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    I would hazard a guess that many of his voters realized Trump wasn't an actual conservative when they voted for him .

    That is actually what is so frustrating about the God damned Democrats, this IS the President that could have convinced conservatives to give in on some issues in order to get some things they want. But the fucking Democrats, that's not good enough for them, even when they lose elections they expect to get everything they want without compromising a bit.
    Even funnier, I've been called 'liberal and leftist' repeatedly since opposing his election. Now I'm the one who has a problem with the compromising on something most would have railed against not so long ago.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    I'm not alone:

    http://patterico.com/2019/07/23/post...ublican-party/

    ...

    My question is: what is the point of the Republican party any more? The TEA party supposedly consisted of people outraged by the size of government, who wanted to return to our founding principles so much that middle-aged white guys were going around in tri-cornered hats. Now those people are all Trumpers, and it looks like the support for small government was a passing fancy — just one of several ways to trigger the libs.


    Republicans are OK on the budget (relatively speaking; in absolute terms they are still terrible) when a Democrat is in office. Witness the Budget Control Act, which Republicans crammed down Obama’s throat. But they spend like drunken sailors when the GOP takes over the Oval Office. Can you imagine Republicans forcing the Budget Control Act on Trump?


    My core concerns for the federal government are 1) excellent judges who apply the law, 2) preserving the free market, and 3) shrinking the debt and deficit by reducing spending and the size of government. (I know: quaint, right?) Donald Trump is good on judges. I always said he would be. But with his love for tariffs, he is horrible on free markets. And he is giving Obama and Bush a run for their money in the race for being the president who cares least about spending.


    Budgets like this mortgage our children’s future. They are an outrage and should motivate any sensible person to stand up, scream, and throw the bums out.


    That doesn’t mean I will vote Democrat. As long as the president picks judges, I can’t go that far. (Turn over picking judges to Congress and I might vote for Joe Biden to get Trump the hell out of there. But that will never happen.) So I’ll be sitting out the next presidential election.


    But this is not what I signed up for when I became a Republican some 30 years ago.


    It is, however, precisely what I expected when I left the party over three years ago.
    This party stands for owning the libs and for nothing else. This budget deal proves it. And aside from a handful of sensible people, nobody will care. Meanwhile, our kids are screwed.


    This is why people become disgusted with Washington D.C. To hell with the people involved in this travesty. Each and every one of them.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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