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  1. #31
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    To be clear, I don't have a problem with the US trying to negotiate a peace with our enemies. I do have a problem with treating sworn enemies as honored guests, which an invitation to Camp David infers.

    This President hasn't a problem in treating allies with less honors than this.

    Pretty much the Afghan government is much like the Czech President at the Munich Pact. So now the US is Chamberlain?

    IF not for the Taliban boasting about killing the marine and 11 others, this would have happened. The mistake wasn't in killing this time or for the past few months, it was boasting to the news reporters about their reasoning, of 'gaining strength' for the negotiations. Without a doubt, the Taliban would have gained the title of The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

    If they'd just 'stfu' it would have been a deal.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  2. #32
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    Know your history or repeat. Oh hell, when bound & determined we'll repeat just for the hell of it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...of_Afghanistan

    Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan


    1996–2001


    "There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God."


    Kabul (official)
    Kandahar (de facto)[1]
    Common languages
    Pashto (official)[2]
    Dari and other languages of Afghanistan
    Religion Sunni Islam
    Government Unitary Islamic theocracy under a totalitarian dictatorship
    Amir al-Mu'minin (Leader of the Faithful)[3][4][5]
    Head of the Supreme Council[6][7][8]
    • 1996–2001
    Mohammed Omar
    Prime Minister
    • 1996–2001
    Mohammad Rabbani
    • 2001
    Abdul Kabir (acting)
    Legislature Jirga
    Historical era Afghan Civil War / War on Terror
    • Rise to Power
    27 September[9] 1996
    • Battle of Tora Bora (2001)
    17 December 2001
    Area
    2000 587,578 km2 (226,865 sq mi)
    Population
    • 2001
    26,813,057
    Currency Afghani
    Calling code +93
    ISO 3166 code AF
    Preceded by Succeeded by
    Islamic State of Afghanistan
    Islamic State of Afghanistan


    The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan[10] (Pashto: د افغانستان اسلامي امارات‎, Da Afghanistan Islami Amarat) was a totalitarian[11][12][13] Islamic state established in September 1996 when the Taliban began their rule of Afghanistan after the fall of Kabul. At its peak, the Taliban established control over approximately 90% of the country, whereas remaining parts of the country in the northeast were held by the Northern Alliance, who maintained broad international recognition as a continuation of the Islamic State of Afghanistan.[14] After 9/11, international opposition to the regime drastically increased, with diplomatic recognition from the United Arab Emirates, and Pakistan being rescinded. The Islamic Emirate ceased to exist on December 17, 2001, after being overthrown by the Northern Alliance, which had been bolstered by a US-led invasion of the country.

    ...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  3. #33
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    Ho Hum... We don't care!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1VT05L

    WORLD NEWSSEPTEMBER 8, 2019 / 12:02 AM / UPDATED 27 MINUTES AGO
    More Americans will die after Trump abruptly ends Afghan talks, Taliban say
    Abdul Qadir Sediqi, Doina Chiacu

    KABUL/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s decision to cancel Afghan peace talks will cost more American lives, the Taliban said on Sunday while the United States promised to keep up military pressure on the militants, in a stunning reversal of efforts to forge a deal ending nearly 20 years of war in Afghanistan.


    The Islamist group issued a statement hours after Trump unexpectedly canceled planned secret talks with the Taliban’s “major leaders” at the presidential compound in Camp David, Maryland. He broke off the talks after the Taliban claimed responsibility for an attack in Kabul last week that killed an American soldier and 11 others.


    Zabihullah Mujahid, a Taliban spokesman, criticized Trump for calling off the dialogue and said U.S. forces have been pounding Afghanistan with attacks at the same time.

    “This will lead to more losses to the U.S.,” he said in a statement. “Its credibility will be affected, its anti-peace stance will be exposed to the world, losses to lives and assets will increase.”


    Elections in Afghanistan becoming more necessary by the hour, says EU special envoy
    In Washington, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said that Afghan peace talks were on hold and Washington would not withdraw troops from the region until it was convinced the Taliban could follow through on any significant commitments.


    The United States has recalled U.S. special envoy for Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad to chart the path forward, Pompeo said in appearances on Sunday TV news shows. Asked on “Fox News Sunday” whether Afghan talks were dead, Pompeo said, “For the time being they are.”


    Trump has long wanted to end U.S. involvement in Afghanistan - since his days as a candidate - and American diplomats have been talking with Taliban representatives for months about a plan to withdraw thousands of American troops in exchange for security guarantees by the Taliban.


    U.S. and Taliban negotiators struck a draft peace deal last week that could have led to a drawdown of troops from America’s longest war. There are currently 14,000 U.S. forces as well as thousands of other NATO troops in the country, 18 years after its invasion by a U.S.-led coalition following the Sept. 11, 2001, al Qaeda attacks on the United States.


    Fighting in Afghanistan has continued amid the talks and recent assaults by the Taliban cast doubts over the draft deal.


    CAMP DAVID SURPRISE
    Asked about the Camp David meeting scheduled for Sunday, Pompeo said Trump decided to get personally involved to get the agreement to the finish line.


    “President Trump ultimately made the decision,” Pompeo told Fox. “He said, ‘I want to talk to (President) Ashraf Ghani. I want to talk to these Taliban negotiators. I want to look them in the eye. I want to see if we can get to the final outcome we needed.’”


    Trump was criticized, even by some fellow Republicans, for having offered to host on U.S. soil a militant group that has killed American troops and had sheltered al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.


    Republican U.S. Representatives Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney said the Taliban were still fighting Americans and harboring its enemies.


    “Camp David is where America’s leaders met to plan our response after al Qaeda, supported by the Taliban, killed 3000 Americans on 9/11,” Cheney, whose father, Dick Cheney, was U.S. vice president at the time of the attacks, wrote on Twitter on Sunday. “No member of the Taliban should set foot there. Ever.”


    Americans will on Wednesday mark the 18th anniversary of the al Qaeda attacks that killed more than 3,000 people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
    Never forget.



    Taliban fighters, who now control more territory than at any time since 2001, launched assaults over the past week that included a suicide attack in Kabul on Thursday that killed U.S. Army Sergeant 1st Class Elis A. Barreto Ortiz, 34, from Puerto Rico, bringing the number of American troops killed in Afghanistan this year to 16.


    Pompeo said the United States will not let up on military support for Afghan troops until the Taliban take the necessary steps to show they are serious about peace.


    Earlier this month, senior security officials in Kabul said joint air raids by U.S. and Afghan forces against the Taliban have not subsided. Pompeo said more than 1,000 Taliban fighters have been killed in Afghanistan in the last 10 days.


    “If the Taliban don’t behave, if they don’t deliver on the commitments that they’ve made to us now for weeks, and in some cases months, the president is not going to reduce the pressure, we’re not going to reduce our support for the Afghan security forces that have fought so hard there in Afghanistan,” Pompeo said in an interview with CNN’s “State of the Union.”


    “We’re not just going to withdraw because there’s a timeline,” he said.


    Reporting by Abdul Qadir Sediqi and Hamid Shalizi in Kabul, Doina Chiacu, Valerie Volcovici and Steve Holland in Washington; Editing by Mary Milliken and Howard Goller


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  4. #34
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    Default Okay Kathianne. Camp David IS NOT A HOLY PLACE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    So you are happy with an invitation to Camp David to those who’s worn to conquer this country.

    I guess that’s the new definition of heroes?

    Tell me where I said I was happy. Then...tell us all. What did you have to say, or think about President Reagan inviting Russian Premier Gorbachev....during the Long....COLD WAR?

    Or, how about this? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."
    This has often been attributed to Sun Tzu and sometimes to Petrarch. It comes most directly from a line spoken by Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II (1974), written by Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola: My father taught me many things here.
    (Some trust it was Sun-tzu, a Chinese general and military strategist, however his citation was different. He said, " Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious.")
    I may be older than most. I may say things not everybody will like.
    But despite all of that. I will never lower myself to the level of Liars, Haters, Cheats, and Hypocrites.
    Philippians 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me:

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by icansayit View Post
    Tell me where I said I was happy. Then...tell us all. What did you have to say, or think about President Reagan inviting Russian Premier Gorbachev....during the Long....COLD WAR?

    Or, how about this? "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."
    This has often been attributed to Sun Tzu and sometimes to Petrarch. It comes most directly from a line spoken by Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II (1974), written by Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola: My father taught me many things here.
    (Some trust it was Sun-tzu, a Chinese general and military strategist, however his citation was different. He said, " Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious.")

    Honestly? You don't see a difference between Gorbachev and the Taliban? I am familiar with the Godfather movies. I do think there's more than a bit of truth in the saying.

    That's not what we're talking about though. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...797#post942797

    My point in the beginning was about honest dealings-not leaving Afghanistan to revert to 9/10/01. Since last night, it's about honor, not giving it to those unworthy. The Taliban are not worthy.

    Your point and that of your antisemitic friend seem to be Trump. If he's for it, the tingle just won't let go. It's ok now, for this minute he's not for it.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  6. #36
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    Default Of course. As usual. You are 100% Correct Kathianne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Honestly? You don't see a difference between Gorbachev and the Taliban? I am familiar with the Godfather movies. I do think there's more than a bit of truth in the saying.

    That's not what we're talking about though. http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...797#post942797

    My point in the beginning was about honest dealings-not leaving Afghanistan to revert to 9/10/01. Since last night, it's about honor, not giving it to those unworthy. The Taliban are not worthy.

    Your point and that of your antisemitic friend seem to be Trump. If he's for it, the tingle just won't let go. It's ok now, for this minute he's not for it.
    I should have remembered what I said last week, here on DP. Be sure to attend every Democrat Rally out there. Seems like you could teach them much more than they know.

    My Mistake.
    I may be older than most. I may say things not everybody will like.
    But despite all of that. I will never lower myself to the level of Liars, Haters, Cheats, and Hypocrites.
    Philippians 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me:

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by icansayit View Post
    I should have remembered what I said last week, here on DP. Be sure to attend every Democrat Rally out there. Seems like you could teach them much more than they know.

    My Mistake.
    No problem. I know two swings and you're done and resort to...well nothing.

    Have a good night.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  8. #38
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    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...id/2255653001/
    ...

    Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger, an Air Force veteran who flew missions throughout the Middle East -- including Afghanistan, said members of the group should "NEVER" be allowed in the U.S.
    "Never should leaders of a terrorist organization that hasn’t renounced 9/11 and continues in evil be allowed in our great country," tweeted Kinzinger, R-Ill. "NEVER. Full stop."

    Others pointed to posts the president made while his predecessor, Barack Obama, was in the White House and working to negotiate a peace deal in Afghanistan.
    "While @BarackObama is slashing the military, he is also negotiating with our sworn enemy the Taliban--who facilitated 9/11," Trump wrote in 2012.
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump


    While @BarackObama is slashing the military, he is also negotiating with our sworn enemy the Taliban--who facilitated 9/11.

    But the controversial meeting and its cancelation have boosted uncertainty over Trump's hopes to fulfill a campaign promise in ending America's longest war and bringing U.S. troops home from Afghanistan.
    On Sunday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said the peace talks were dead "for now" and defended Trump's now aborted meeting.

    "The Taliban tried to gain negotiating advantage by conducting terror attacks inside of the country," Pompeo said on CNN's 'State of the Union,' one in a string of television interviews he conducted Sunday. "It made no sense for the Taliban to be rewarded for that kind of bad behavior."

    After the 9/11 attacks, U.S.-led forces invaded Afghanistan, toppled the Taliban and tried to foster democracy in the war-torn country. But remnants of the extremist group have been fighting the government ever since, and the Taliban now controls about half the country again.

    President Donald Trump told Cabinet members the Islamic State and Taliban should fight each other instead of having the U.S. involved.

    More than 2,400 American soldiers have been killed in the war, according to the most recent figures from the Pentagon. There are currently about 22,000 coalition troops in Afghanistan now, 14,000 of them Americans.

    Trump's hope for a speedy withdrawal of U.S. forces has drawn opposition from within his own administration, including military leaders who want a more phased approach. Critics fear a premature withdrawal would encourage the Taliban to re-take control of the country.

    Contributing: David Jackson, Deirdre Shesgreen and John Fritze



    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Default Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    No problem. I know two swings and you're done and resort to...well nothing.

    Have a good night.


    How sad it must be to be you.
    I may be older than most. I may say things not everybody will like.
    But despite all of that. I will never lower myself to the level of Liars, Haters, Cheats, and Hypocrites.
    Philippians 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me:

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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by icansayit View Post
    They accuse Trump of not being qualified for anything. So, when he tries...they accuse him again of Bowing Down to the enemy.

    When the meeting is canceled...they do the opposite...same thing in reverse. Still say he had no right to plan such a meeting....Secretly....as if he wanted to Hide it from WE THE PEOPLE.

    It's called "BEING STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK, AND A HARD PLACE" or "DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T"

    A better word for all of the arranged HATRED for the President is...."HYPOCRISY".
    Thats how it is...agree...American people know and understand this already....Ignore the Leftists and "wish Hillary would of won" Trump haters...it is what it is...They will always be yelling at the sky....and remain full of shit...



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  13. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by icansayit View Post
    How sad it must be to be you.
    Again, when faced with facts, you got nothing. It's ok, you must be liberal, it's all 'I wuv Mr. Trump! He gives me tingles. Those that don't feel that, well they are just so sad.'

    Glad for your sobriety, you shouldn't be looking up to antisemites though.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  15. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by icansayit View Post
    How sad it must be to be you.

    Kath is one of the more intelligent posters on this board. Rational in her posts, well most of them LOL, erudite in her responses, inquisitive when she isn't knowledgeable on a subject. I've had plenty of disagreements with her , but she is absolutely positively a net gain for this board, which is far more than could be said for quite a few members.

    On the topic of negotiating with the Taliban she's 100% factual, Trump was against it before he was for it. And what's more, this is NOTHING like the Cold War, where maybe you aren't aware but the USA and USSR both went to great pains to prevent killing anyone. These motherfuckers are out killing Americans and bragging about it on social media as we are announcing that we are trying to negotiate a peace with them. Nah brah, you don't negotiate a peace treaty with an enemy as they are still killing your people.

    I was for getting us out of Afghanistan until this latest stunt by the Taliban, now I'm pro surge and wipe them the fuck out.

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  17. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    Kath is one of the more intelligent posters on this board. Rational in her posts, well most of them LOL, erudite in her responses, inquisitive when she isn't knowledgeable on a subject. I've had plenty of disagreements with her , but she is absolutely positively a net gain for this board, which is far more than could be said for quite a few members.

    On the topic of negotiating with the Taliban she's 100% factual, Trump was against it before he was for it. And what's more, this is NOTHING like the Cold War, where maybe you aren't aware but the USA and USSR both went to great pains to prevent killing anyone. These motherfuckers are out killing Americans and bragging about it on social media as we are announcing that we are trying to negotiate a peace with them. Nah brah, you don't negotiate a peace treaty with an enemy as they are still killing your people.

    I was for getting us out of Afghanistan until this latest stunt by the Taliban, now I'm pro surge and wipe them the fuck out.
    Wow! Now if you'd just changed your mind because of my powers of persuasion, we'd be so much better off! LOL!

    I'm always for not getting involved with other countries regarding war, but once in, let's get it done. I truly thought that was clear in the aftermath of 9/11. Unfortunately those who won't learn from Korea, Vietnam, forays in the countries south of us, so we have this.

    I actually agree that we can't 'Win' Afghanistan, but what was proposed regarding making a 'deal' with the Taliban would have been a loss ala Vietnam or what Obama pulled in Iraq/Syria.

    Going to have to work with the official government, get some good human intelligence set up for the long haul, working with allies in the area. Keep ISIS/Taliban on the radar, hitting them when necessary. We don't strategically arm the official government either, that would be setting up a new Sadam. Nope, let that government deal with the day-to-day, we'll hit from the air when the really bad guys need to be thinned.

    I'm not a strategist, but the generals and CIA can work with this.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    We have been there too long. Those people do not want to settle down and act civilized.

    A lot of American and allied blood has been spilled trying to mold that county into
    a non-heathen waste land.

    Time to pull out with all of our gear.
    In my response please show me where I posted anything about "civilizing" anyone? And don't dare to lecture me about American blood. I have a son over there right now.

    Last week I wanted all our people out of Afghanistan, but the Taliban's recent actions have changed my mind. We need to up the ante and wipe them the fuck out. I don't care about winning hearts and minds. I care about killing those wish to kill Americans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    In my response please show me where I posted anything about "civilizing" anyone? And don't dare to lecture me about American blood. I have a son over there right now.

    Last week I wanted all our people out of Afghanistan, but the Taliban's recent actions have changed my mind. We need to up the ante and wipe them the fuck out. I don't care about winning hearts and minds. I care about killing those wish to kill Americans.
    Since the 'negotiations' started with the Taliban, especially after they successfully cut out the official government being involved, they've stepped up the killing of both innocents and our military. It didn't START last week, they just were emboldened to the point of shouting it to the press. That was something the US government could not ignore. Otherwise we'd have had the signed 'agreement' yesterday.

    Still think we're so 'desperate' to WIN we'll do the agreement, but I bet it won't be at Camp David.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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