Good News In Afghanistan?

[STTAB]

Wow! Now if you'd just changed your mind because of my powers of persuasion, we'd be so much better off! LOL!

I'm always for not getting involved with other countries regarding war, but once in, let's get it done. I truly thought that was clear in the aftermath of 9/11. Unfortunately those who won't learn from Korea, Vietnam, forays in the countries south of us, so we have this.

I actually agree that we can't 'Win' Afghanistan, but what was proposed regarding making a 'deal' with the Taliban would have been a loss ala Vietnam or what Obama pulled in Iraq/Syria.

Going to have to work with the official government, get some good human intelligence set up for the long haul, working with allies in the area. Keep ISIS/Taliban on the radar, hitting them when necessary. We don't strategically arm the official government either, that would be setting up a new Sadam. Nope, let that government deal with the day-to-day, we'll hit from the air when the really bad guys need to be thinned.

I'm not a strategist, but the generals and CIA can work with this.

Turns out , taking out Sadam was a major tactical error. He ruled Iraq with an iron fist, ISIS didn't flourish under his regime, I'll tell you that.

Here's a cold hard truth about our military. We haven't "won" a real war since WWII. Sure we beat the shit out of Grenada, we rolled over Iraq in Desert Storm, but tactically and strategically we have been beaten in every war since WWII that we have involved ourselves in because we elect Presidents who have not served. I'm not saying that only those who have served are qualified to be President, but it's a major factor when you are actually involved in war. Our last two Presidents, Obama and now Trump have BOTH for some reason believed and continue to believe that they know more about war than the professionals . Chalk that up to ego or whatever, but it is true.

Couple that with bleeding heart Americans who cry about our enemy being tortured via water boarding and sleep deprivation, let alone collateral damaged caused by these motherfuckers taking shots at us while hiding behind old people and women and you have a llttle pissant group like the fucking Taliban chasing off the greatest military the world has ever seen.

You think that if in 2001 a Douglas MacArthur were told "do what you need to do , defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan" that we would still be in this war 18 fucking years later?

Long story short, once again it boils down to Americans being stupid and our enemy realizing "all we have to do is outlast the enemy" that's why as late as last week I wanted us out of Afghanistan, because I have known all along the US public isn't going to allow our military to ever win this war.

[Gunny]

I happen to think you (kathianne and Staab) are both correct. Right up to the solution. I don't see a "win". I see the Paris Peace Accords Part Deux. The US bargaining an exit with the enemy without input from the ally that stands to lose. It's so awesome to be our "ally". The US is the WORST fair weather friend as a Nation in the World.

Trump is in a lose/lose position and once again I have to wonder why he put himself there.

I don't like leaving the "ally" to suffer at the hands of all the Taliban promises we know will be broken the second we leave. At the same time, I agree that the "ally" doesn't care who wins so long as their poppy crop is left alone. At the ground level, why should they care who claims to be in charge? Anyone claiming to be in charge of Afghanistan is a fool.

Burn the place to the ground, border to border, THEN you get to be in charge.

As far as the "don't blaspheme Fearless Leader" goes, Trump has NOT impressed me with his foreign policy where our military is engaged one bit. That's my personal and professional opinion and I don't see the call for slinging insults for those with similar or like opinions. If the "ubiquitous you" disagree, feel free to state such and why without ruining a thread and/or insulting everyone. That would be most appreciated.

[Kathianne]

I happen to think you (kathianne and Staab) are both correct. Right up to the solution. I don't see a "win". I see the Paris Peace Accords Part Deux. The US bargaining an exit with the enemy without input from the ally that stands to lose. It's so awesome to be our "ally". The US is the WORST fair weather friend as a Nation in the World.

Trump is in a lose/lose position and once again I have to wonder why he put himself there.

I don't like leaving the "ally" to suffer at the hands of all the Taliban promises we know will be broken the second we leave. At the same time, I agree that the "ally" doesn't care who wins so long as their poppy crop is left alone. At the ground level, why should they care who claims to be in charge? Anyone claiming to be in charge of Afghanistan is a fool.

Burn the place to the ground, border to border, THEN you get to be in charge.

As far as the "don't blaspheme Fearless Leader" goes, Trump has NOT impressed me with his foreign policy where our military is engaged one bit. That's my personal and professional opinion and I don't see the call for slinging insults for those with similar or like opinions. If the "ubiquitous you" disagree, feel free to state such and why without ruining a thread and/or insulting everyone. That would be most appreciated.

You may have noticed that the 'slinging of insults' came from those who keep running into someone's backside.

[STTAB]

Since the 'negotiations' started with the Taliban, especially after they successfully cut out the official government being involved, they've stepped up the killing of both innocents and our military. It didn't START last week, they just were emboldened to the point of shouting it to the press. That was something the US government could not ignore. Otherwise we'd have had the signed 'agreement' yesterday.

Still think we're so 'desperate' to WIN we'll do the agreement, but I bet it won't be at Camp David.

I mean on the one hand, look at how much this war has cost us with really nothing to show for it, but on the other hand the military man in me says we can't let the Taliban get away with this.

As Gunny has said it's a lose lose for Trump, but it's largely of his own making.

I'm sick of war, but just as I was sick of Obama using the war as a political pawn, I'm sick of Trump doing the same. He will make this deal, not because it's a good deal but because he can say going into the election "hey I got us out of Afghanistan" and frankly I'm sick of that kind of politician. I thought Trump was supposed to be different (that's a question to all the Trump boot lickers on here, not you Kath)

Different would be Trump having the courage to say "I miscalculated here, we can't deal with the Taliban PERIOD" that's a guy I could respect. I still support Trump overall, but that support is waning every day.

[Gunny]

You may have noticed that the 'slinging of insults' came from those who keep running into someone's backside.

I didn't say any names. What I WILL say is this -- school is in session and right along with it "Paw-paw's Daycare". I don't get to post whenever I feel like it and when I do get a chance, walking into a perfectly good topic that's erupted into a pissing contest makes me want to just log back out. When the munchkin gets up I have to drop everything else.

To see it be the usual "Trump can do no wrong" argument makes me want to drop the laptop on the floor after logging out. We all pretty-much know where we all stand on here when it comes to the President. The nastiness about it is not required.

I will say the same the thing I have since this first became an issue. Those avid Trump supporters who will accept no alternative opinions, varying as they do, only do themselves, and the effort to get Trump reelected, a disservice by further alienating those who are on the fence about him or still open-minded enough to consider him as an alternative to the Fascist Party of America.

The topic is Afghanistan. I see Afghanistan as a mirror-image of Vietnam as far as what is being suggested by the President at the moment. While I don't agree with leaving anyone high and dry, STAAB makes a good point where fighting for those who won't fight for themselves as concerned. The peasants don't care who is in charge. They just know that if the VC aren't stealing their rice, the US will come along and blow the whole paddy up. They don't understand democracy. Their world is tribal, has been since forever, and it's not going to change.

I also don't care much for the positive comments aimed at Pakistan as some kind of "ally" when they're about as much help as Laos and Cambodia were. We aren'ta llowed to pursue the enemy there.

Nothing short of turning that place into a parking lot is going to change it.

[STTAB]

I didn't say any names. What I WILL say is this -- school is in session and right along with it "Paw-paw's Daycare". I don't get to post whenever I feel like it and when I do get a chance, walking into a perfectly good topic that's erupted into a pissing contest makes me want to just log back out. When the munchkin gets up I have to drop everything else.

To see it be the usual "Trump can do no wrong" argument makes me want to drop the laptop on the floor after logging out. We all pretty-much know where we all stand on here when it comes to the President. The nastiness about it is not required.

I will say the same the thing I have since this first became an issue. Those avid Trump supporters who will accept no alternative opinions, varying as they do, only do themselves, and the effort to get Trump reelected, a disservice by further alienating those who are on the fence about him or still open-minded enough to consider him as an alternative to the Fascist Party of America.

The topic is Afghanistan. I see Afghanistan as a mirror-image of Vietnam as far as what is being suggested by the President at the moment. While I don't agree with leaving anyone high and dry, STAAB makes a good point where fighting for those who won't fight for themselves as concerned. The peasants don't care who is in charge. They just know that if the VC aren't stealing their rice, the US will come along and blow the whole paddy up. They don't understand democracy. Their world is tribal, has been since forever, and it's not going to change.

I also don't care much for the positive comments aimed at Pakistan as some kind of "ally" when they're about as much help as Laos and Cambodia were. We aren'ta llowed to pursue the enemy there.

Nothing short of turning that place into a parking lot is going to change it.

Yup on Pakistan, they rank just barely behind Turkey when it comes to being a reliable ally.

Not that we have any room to talk.

But this is the point I tried to bring up to Kath last week. How many people and how many TRILfIONS of dollars do we lose trying to turn Afghanistan into what we think they should be but which they themselves do not understand?

As far as that goes, those 12 Americans wouldn't have died in Afghanistan if they hadn't been in Afghanistan to begin with. That's a fact.

What we REALLY need to do is drop a MOAB on the Pakistan side where the Taliban is really hiding anyway. I mean we all know exactly where they are, the same fucking country where Osama Bin Laden was hiding . See, yet another mistake made by the US military due to weak leadership and even weaker voters. Pakistan should have paid a price, a VERY heavy price for allowing Bin Laden to be in their country, and please someone do try to convince me that the Paki government had no idea Bin Laden was in Pakistan. For fuck's sakes, we KNEW that Pakistan knew, that's why we went into Pakistan covertly, because we knew that telling Pakistan was the same as telling Bin Laden.

The "punishment" could have been something like I don't know, taking out the base that was right next to the house he was living in with cruise missiles or something?

Is there anything more disgusting than countries which pretend to be our allies?

[Gunny]

Yup on Pakistan, they rank just barely behind Turkey when it comes to being a reliable ally.

Not that we have any room to talk.

But this is the point I tried to bring up to Kath last week. How many people and how many TRILfIONS of dollars do we lose trying to turn Afghanistan into what we think they should be but which they themselves do not understand?

As far as that goes, those 12 Americans wouldn't have died in Afghanistan if they hadn't been in Afghanistan to begin with. That's a fact.

What we REALLY need to do is drop a MOAB on the Pakistan side where the Taliban is really hiding anyway. I mean we all know exactly where they are, the same fucking country where Osama Bin Laden was hiding . See, yet another mistake made by the US military due to weak leadership and even weaker voters. Pakistan should have paid a price, a VERY heavy price for allowing Bin Laden to be in their country, and please someone do try to convince me that the Paki government had no idea Bin Laden was in Pakistan. For fuck's sakes, we KNEW that Pakistan knew, that's why we went into Pakistan covertly, because we knew that telling Pakistan was the same as telling Bin Laden.

The "punishment" could have been something like I don't know, taking out the base that was right next to the house he was living in with cruise missiles or something?

Is there anything more disgusting than countries which pretend to be our allies?

I get the feeling, and have had it, that Trump doesn't not know how to use the military. Overall big picture. He's shuffling his feet in Syria/Iraq, and now Afghanistan. And it's not really a knock on him before anyone has a heart attack. He's a businessman. He appears to be doing pretty well in his trade wars. Better than I expected.

So I have to question why, when he has loose ends from one end of this Nation to the other being tied up in Dem-owned courts, he would take this on. Maybe he sees "Trump Ends Afghan War" as a feather in his hat. Not seeing that won't work because no way the US walks out of there a winner. The MSM/left is going to be all up his ass about not finishing what we started and we won't hear the end of it.

There is no winning a war in Afghanistan and never has been. I say exterminate the Taliban THEN leave. THAT was the mission. But suck them back into Afghanistan then quietly flank them where they can't run back aross the Pakistan border. Then you have to ask how much is that one, lonely airstrip we have in Pakistan worth? It IS worth a lot strategically. Worth an 18 year war? Maybe not so much.

Speaking of, just to prove how brilliant they are, the Taliban decides a show of force at the bargaining table by murdering a dozen people You just can't make this shit up.

Our reason for being there dies with bin Laden (even if that reasoning is as short-sighted and shallow as it gets). IF we aren't going to do anything but prop up a government that is probably making a fortune in the opium market under our protection, we should leave.

But there is no honor in it. Should have thought about that before we bitch-slapped the first obvious bunch of assholes after 9/11.

[Kathianne]

I didn't say any names. What I WILL say is this -- school is in session and right along with it "Paw-paw's Daycare". I don't get to post whenever I feel like it and when I do get a chance, walking into a perfectly good topic that's erupted into a pissing contest makes me want to just log back out. When the munchkin gets up I have to drop everything else.

To see it be the usual "Trump can do no wrong" argument makes me want to drop the laptop on the floor after logging out. We all pretty-much know where we all stand on here when it comes to the President. The nastiness about it is not required.

I will say the same the thing I have since this first became an issue. Those avid Trump supporters who will accept no alternative opinions, varying as they do, only do themselves, and the effort to get Trump reelected, a disservice by further alienating those who are on the fence about him or still open-minded enough to consider him as an alternative to the Fascist Party of America.

The topic is Afghanistan. I see Afghanistan as a mirror-image of Vietnam as far as what is being suggested by the President at the moment. While I don't agree with leaving anyone high and dry, STAAB makes a good point where fighting for those who won't fight for themselves as concerned. The peasants don't care who is in charge. They just know that if the VC aren't stealing their rice, the US will come along and blow the whole paddy up. They don't understand democracy. Their world is tribal, has been since forever, and it's not going to change.

I also don't care much for the positive comments aimed at Pakistan as some kind of "ally" when they're about as much help as Laos and Cambodia were. We aren'ta llowed to pursue the enemy there.

Nothing short of turning that place into a parking lot is going to change it.

The only mention of Trump tingles were deserved. If I'm hit with 'CNN' shit and someone that just goes "Yup, yup, yup! You be bad, no likey Trump!" Yes, I'll hit back for their stupidity and their antisemitism. It's deserved.

Your schedule isn't under my control, so threads develop as their wont.

Pretty certain I didn't mention Pakistan, so not sure about that one.

[STTAB]

The only mention of Trump tingles were deserved. If I'm hit with 'CNN' shit and someone that just goes "Yup, yup, yup! You be bad, no likey Trump!" Yes, I'll hit back for their stupidity and their antisemitism. It's deserved.

Your schedule isn't under my control, so threads develop as their wont.

Pretty certain I didn't mention Pakistan, so not sure about that one.

As I read it Gunny wasn't "attacking" you , he was bitching about a few others. I won't name names.

[STTAB]

I get the feeling, and have had it, that Trump doesn't not know how to use the military. Overall big picture. He's shuffling his feet in Syria/Iraq, and now Afghanistan. And it's not really a knock on him before anyone has a heart attack. He's a businessman. He appears to be doing pretty well in his trade wars. Better than I expected.

So I have to question why, when he has loose ends from one end of this Nation to the other being tied up in Dem-owned courts, he would take this on. Maybe he sees "Trump Ends Afghan War" as a feather in his hat. Not seeing that won't work because no way the US walks out of there a winner. The MSM/left is going to be all up his ass about not finishing what we started and we won't hear the end of it.

There is no winning a war in Afghanistan and never has been. I say exterminate the Taliban THEN leave. THAT was the mission. But suck them back into Afghanistan then quietly flank them where they can't run back aross the Pakistan border. Then you have to ask how much is that one, lonely airstrip we have in Pakistan worth? It IS worth a lot strategically. Worth an 18 year war? Maybe not so much.

Speaking of, just to prove how brilliant they are, the Taliban decides a show of force at the bargaining table by murdering a dozen people You just can't make this shit up.

Our reason for being there dies with bin Laden (even if that reasoning is as short-sighted and shallow as it gets). IF we aren't going to do anything but prop up a government that is probably making a fortune in the opium market under our protection, we should leave.

But there is no honor in it. Should have thought about that before we bitch-slapped the first obvious bunch of assholes after 9/11.

On the one hand, I appreciate that Trump is trying to do as much as he can for the American people, I truly believe he is. On the other, I think he's overestimated what effect he can have on the overly bloated US government and is trying to take on too many things at any given time. China, North Korea, Palestine, ISIS, domestic issues, blah blah blah.

The rest of the government simply can't move fast enough to keep up with him.

Being sued over every fucking EO he issues and harrassed daily by the Democrats in the House all the while fighting off a hostile media isn't helping either.

So, absolutely some of this is self inflicted, but not all of it. I'll tell you , in many ways he's handled it better than I would have. For example the other dasy another court ruled that the Secret Service can't refuse to let a CNN reporter who was being disrupitive back into the WH.... I would have told that Court to go pound sand and banned the entire network from the WH and refused to acknowledge that court's authority.

Of course I would have not been in that situation anyway because 18 months ago, at least , I would have simply froze CNN out. Sure you can attend briefings, but no one is going to call on you or answer any questions from your network, and anyone who does or grants your network any interviews or even gives you so much as a "no comment" will be fired. You're welcome to come to the briefings though, you bet.

Of course I also would have already ordered that Adam Schiff not be given access to classified information, but that's just me.

[STTAB]

My God the sheer stupidity of so many Americans is almost too much to bare. Kath I don't know how you can not agree that we need a purge LOL

Over on another board right now, there are at least 50 posters screaming about "Trump wanted to ban Muslim women and children from coming into the US but let Taliban leaders in" as if the two issues are in any way related.

Are they smart enough to understand that even if we did allow those people to come to the US to negotiate that we know EXACTLY who they are and will be hands on with them the entire time they are here and when the meetijngs are done they will be LEAVING this country, which is completely unrelated to allowing unverified immigrants in from certain countries and then having no control over them once they come here with no firm date on when if ever that they will be leaving?

Or do they know that and are just liars?

[Kathianne]

My God the sheer stupidity of so many Americans is almost too much to bare. Kath I don't know how you can not agree that we need a purge LOL

Over on another board right now, there are at least 50 posters screaming about "Trump wanted to ban Muslim women and children from coming into the US but let Taliban leaders in" as if the two issues are in any way related.

Are they smart enough to understand that even if we did allow those people to come to the US to negotiate that we know EXACTLY who they are and will be hands on with them the entire time they are here and when the meetijngs are done they will be LEAVING this country, which is completely unrelated to allowing unverified immigrants in from certain countries and then having no control over them once they come here with no firm date on when if ever that they will be leaving?

Or do they know that and are just liars?

Some has to be Trump can do no right.

Then there are those who thought his dealings with the Taliban was a sign of seriousness or brilliance or something.

[STTAB]

I happen to think you (kathianne and Staab) are both correct. Right up to the solution. I don't see a "win". I see the Paris Peace Accords Part Deux. The US bargaining an exit with the enemy without input from the ally that stands to lose. It's so awesome to be our "ally". The US is the WORST fair weather friend as a Nation in the World.

Trump is in a lose/lose position and once again I have to wonder why he put himself there.

I don't like leaving the "ally" to suffer at the hands of all the Taliban promises we know will be broken the second we leave. At the same time, I agree that the "ally" doesn't care who wins so long as their poppy crop is left alone. At the ground level, why should they care who claims to be in charge? Anyone claiming to be in charge of Afghanistan is a fool.

Burn the place to the ground, border to border, THEN you get to be in charge.

As far as the "don't blaspheme Fearless Leader" goes, Trump has NOT impressed me with his foreign policy where our military is engaged one bit. That's my personal and professional opinion and I don't see the call for slinging insults for those with similar or like opinions. If the "ubiquitous you" disagree, feel free to state such and why without ruining a thread and/or insulting everyone. That would be most appreciated.

Also, for the record, STTAB is always right. Well, I was wrong once. I thought I had made a mistake, but it actually turned out that I was correct, so my mistake was thinking I had made a mistake.

[Kathianne]

Just listened to the president. The Taliban are so very upset, they knew they did wrong. He has cancelled the meeting with some very bad people, but will keep working on it. Not changing the timing of bringing troops home.

Just what I said.

[STTAB]

Just listened to the president. The Taliban are so very upset, they knew they did wrong. He has cancelled the meeting with some very bad people, but will keep working on it. Not changing the timing of bringing troops home.

Just what I said.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn the CIA is behind this. US Army is getting too close to figuring out who really controls the poppy fields, so time for themt o go home.