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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Great story - let me find you the one about the man in the U.K. who couldn’t be stopped when he went on a bloody-gun rampage because our civs didn’t have guns -...
    ... And, Noir, let me tell YOU about knife crime, especially in London. What great 'answer' to it does Sadiq Khan have (1st Muslim London Mayor, backed by Labour) .. ?

    He just tells us that it may take TEN YEARS to bring under control.

    Do people have guns to fend off knife-toting thugs with ? NO. They're not allowed them, except under very exceptional circumstances (living in a high knife crime area doesn't count). Trouble is, too, that criminals don't obey laws if they don't feel like it ... so if anyone (except one of those few policemen allowed to) is going to have and use one, it'll be a criminal.

    Deterrence ? Self defence ? Do draconian gun laws allow any such thing ??

    Where was the deterrence factor, for example, when a machete wielding maniac BEHEADED his victim, in a neighbourhood I once lived just minutes' walk away from ... ?

    -- This one, in fact .... >>

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...on-garden.html

    An 82-year-old woman was beheaded in a north London suburban garden by a man with a machete.

    Palmira Silva, a widow and grandmother described as “such a sweet lady” by one neighbour, was killed outside her home in Edmonton in a random but frenzied assault by a 25-year-old.

    Witnesses said they saw the man, wielding a foot-long blade, attack a passing vehicle and a cat before roaming back gardens looking for a victim.

    Police believe he also tried to attack two people at another home in the street, but they were able to escape without injury.

    The man was arrested after armed officers, who had distracted him to prevent further attacks, cornered him in a house and brought him down with a Taser stun gun. Some officers were injured.

    Mrs Silva, who was of Italian descent, was pronounced dead at the scene.

    One line of inquiry for detectives is understood to be that the man was inspired by recent footage of terrorists beheading two American journalists in Syria.
    A neighbourhood not allowed to have guns is one that cannot fend off or stop a deranged machete thug easily !! People have to wait for the police to arrive. By then ... how many people could he have killed ?

    But maybe you're OK with that. Here, we're talking about one woman who was the prey of a crazed murderer. For the sake of saving her life .. better that she loses it, eh, rather than allow people a self defence capablity that could've SAVED her.

    Yes ? Is that how you see this, @Noir ?

    There's a real world out there. It has to be met in realistic terms. To SAVE lives.

    Do you now, finally, understand that ?? OR, are you so wedded to political imperatives dictated to you that you can never stray so much as a millimetre away from them, in case REAL WORLD problems threaten to intrude upon your 'worldview' .. ?
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-13-2019 at 07:52 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    ... And, Noir, let me tell YOU about knife crime
    Would you rather the people committing knife crimes had access to guns instead?

    Why aren’t all these people committing knife crimes committing gun crimes?
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Would you rather the people committing knife crimes had access to guns instead?

    Why aren’t all these people committing knife crimes committing gun crimes?
    why would you rather scream "gun control" rather than actually fix the fucking problem? The person who is dead doesn't care whether they were killed by a knife or a gun

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  6. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    why would you rather scream "gun control" rather than actually fix the fucking problem? The person who is dead doesn't care whether they were killed by a knife or a gun
    But the people who are alive who were able to not be within Arms reach of a murderer are alive.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    But the people who are alive who were able to not be within Arms reach of a murderer are alive.
    Which means you really do not care about those who were killed. You only care about screeching that too many were killed because GUN.

    I care about preventing the unnecessary loss of life. Whether it's one life or ten.

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  9. #51
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    So it begins?

    https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morri...ntrol-package/

    Here We Go: NYT, Politico Report Trump Working With Dems On Gun-Control Package
    ED MORRISSEYPosted at 10:01 am on August 14, 2019

    What can you do when populists start, er, populisting? Just hope that they don’t list too far to the Left. Both the New York Times and Politico report overnight that Donald Trump wants to put together a major gun bill in the wake of two mass shootings this month, although just how major remains to be seen:




    Mr. Trump on Sunday telephoned Senator Christopher S. Murphy, a Democrat who has been one of the leading voices in Congress for gun control, an indication that the president is interested in pursuing legislation. Earlier in the week, Mr. Murphy had contacted the White House to indicate that he was willing to work with Mr. Trump on the issue, which prompted the call.


    The conversation was positive, with Mr. Trump indicating that he was serious about persuading Republicans to act, according to officials familiar with their discussion. And the two agreed to set up a staff-level dialogue this week between their offices and those of Senators Patrick J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania, and Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, who are working feverishly to revive the background check legislation they wrote after the Sandy Hook massacre.


    The N.R.A., which opposes gun registration in any form, has for years fought against background check bills, arguing that they “don’t stop criminals from getting firearms” and that some proposals “would deprive individuals of due process of law.” If such a bill passed and was signed by Mr. Trump into law, it would be the first significant federal gun safety law in a quarter-century.


    Looks like last week’s salute to “meaningful Background Checks” wasn’t a one-off rhetorical device. Trump didn’t call Murphy just to chew the fat or to pose in public; Trump apparently wants to force Republicans to back the Toomey-Manchin bill that the NRA successfully stalled a few years ago. Another sign that Trump wants action, Politico notes, is the point man Trump has assigned to the effort:


    Pat Toomey (R-Pa.), Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Chris Murphy (D-Conn.). Their staffers have been meeting with Joe Grogan’s Domestic Policy Council and W.H. leg affairs director Eric Ueland. They’ve discussed where Manchin-Toomey legislation stands and what changes have been made. Each senator has also spoken with President DONALD TRUMP privately. The WHITE HOUSE has also had in-person contact with aides to Rep. DOUG COLLINS (R-Ga.), the top Republican on Judiciary.


    MULTIPLE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE TALKS say Ueland is taking control of the situation — a hopeful sign if you’re looking for progress. We spoke to a number of people on the Hill and in the White House who were hoping this effort is headquartered in the legislative affairs shop, and not captained by the gaggle of other White House officials who try to insert themselves into legislative issues. Ueland and his team have the bandwidth and connections to navigate the Hill.


    This could be a strategy of containment by Trump. If takes proactive steps to shift the focus onto expanded background checks, it might take some pressure off of other non-responsive demands such as a new assault-weapons ban or other measures that would infringe more on gun rights. To some extent it’s already working, and Trump knows that voters support the idea of background check changes more than any other measure in dealing with mass shooting incidents. If he stays ahead of that curve, Trump can lead it — or so the theory goes.


    On the merits, expanded background checks aren’t terribly responsive either. The issues in most of these shootings involve previous failures by law enforcement to take action that would create the red flags necessary to stop a firearms sale. A less passive form of policing on lower-level incidents might improve matters greatly for the current system of background checks. Another potential improvement would be to actually prosecute those who attempt to buy firearms illegally and get caught by the existing system, a common-sense follow-up on failed background checks which almost never happens.


    For those reasons and others, the NRA might not appreciate the nuance of Trump’s strategy. They offered Trump unprecedented support in 2016 on the assumption that he couldn’t get bullied into retreat. Trump is nothing if not transactional, however, as most populists tend to be. What matters to a populist is the current vox populi, not ideological trenches. If the current vox populi says “background checks,” then that’s where Trump will go, especially with all of the incentives of an election cycle now in play. Let’s just hope that the vox populi doesn’t start saying “massive confiscation.”


    At this point, gun rights advocates had better prepare themselves for the eventual Rose Garden ceremony, and hope to shape it to keep damage to a minimum.


    Addendum: It’s worth noting in the NYT article how Democrats are characterizing their August recess town halls. Voters want action on mass shootings. How many of them are demanding action on impeachment? Thus far, it seems as though voters don’t really care about that, and it will be interesting to see what this cooperative effort does to the impeachment process when House Democrats return.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  10. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Off topic, but I'm trying to remember a time that Obama called Republican leaders to discuss bipartisan agreement on ANY subject. Trump does it all the time, but he's the fucking authoritarian says liberals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    Off topic, but I'm trying to remember a time that Obama called Republican leaders to discuss bipartisan agreement on ANY subject. Trump does it all the time, but he's the fucking authoritarian says liberals.
    True. Now about the topic at hand?


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


  12. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    Which means you really do not care about those who were killed. You only care about screeching that too many were killed because GUN.

    I care about preventing the unnecessary loss of life. Whether it's one life or ten.
    No, it is just an acceptance that in most cases when someone does decide they are going to kill its probable that they will be able to attack at least one person.

    However number of people they can attack in a given time is greatly varies based on their ownership of a gun or not.
    Last edited by Noir; 08-14-2019 at 10:05 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    True. Now about the topic at hand?
    As I've stated. I have little faith that our government will do ANYTHING that actually alleviates the issue at all.

    There is a reason young white men are choosing to commi9t mass murder, probably related to the reason why so many young white men are committing suicide. Unless we address that no gun laws will make a difference.

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  15. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    As I've stated. I have little faith that our government will do ANYTHING that actually alleviates the issue at all.

    There is a reason young white men are choosing to commi9t mass murder, probably related to the reason why so many young white men are committing suicide. Unless we address that no gun laws will make a difference.
    Would be easier to see consistency if you even questioned the harm that might result in handing over more powers, especially when it effectually only pertains to the law abiding.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Would be easier to see consistency if you even questioned the harm that might result in handing over more powers, especially when it effectually only pertains to the law abiding.
    On the list of things politicians care about I would judge that consistency has to be in the bottom 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    On the list of things politicians care about I would judge that consistency has to be in the bottom 5.
    So now you are posting as a politician? Expound on that, please.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    So now you are posting as a politician? Expound on that, please.
    Wait, you're accusing ME of being inconsistent? LOL This I have to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STTAB View Post
    Wait, you're accusing ME of being inconsistent? LOL This I have to hear.
    Gun restrictions, red flag, deep dive background...


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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