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    Default Britain Nov. 1st Election?



    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Another general election -on the Eve of Brexit no less- sounds like an absolute disaster. So it’s almost certainly going to happen.
    Last edited by Noir; 08-08-2019 at 09:48 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Another general election -on the Eve of Brexit no less- sounds like an absolute disaster. So it’s almost certainly going to happen.

    I thought the hard date for Brexit was 10/31? So wouldn't that be the day after? All Saints Day.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I thought the hard date for Brexit was 10/31? So wouldn't that be the day after? All Saints Day.
    Yeah the literal election date will be all saints day - the electioneering will of been over the previous 6 weeks, which you’d consider Brexit eve, and which our government would be busy, we, trying to not lose even more MPs.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I thought the hard date for Brexit was 10/31? So wouldn't that be the day after? All Saints Day.
    Whether it's a 'hard date' is debatable. We had a previous 'hard date' set for the end of March, BUT, we asked for, and got, our latest extension to October. Part of (most of) the point of Boris being so emphatic about our leaving 'come-what-may' in October was to dispel others' thoughts that this process would be repeated.

    Regardless, we've already heard from the EU that they could look favourably on yet another extension. Of course we have. They want our exit to be as dragged out as possible, or better yet, reversed entirely.

    It's a hard date because Boris says it is. Simply that. There are plenty who'd want him to change his mind.

    But things have moved on. The latest move from the Labour (Socialist) Party is one of an arrogant power-grab ... a form of political coup, in fact ... if they can't make the headway they want against Boris.

    It comes down to this: Labour are planning a motion of No Confidence against the Conservatives, to be applied soon after Summer Recess. If they can get one to go their way, Boris has said he'll disregard it, for at least as long as it takes to get Brexit concluded.

    Now, time is very tight. Say the No Confidence motion wins. The normal route, then, would be for a General Election to happen. This'd mean time taken out in fighting and winning one, instead of time taken to further fight in the Commons to do what would 'have to be' done to procedurally (even legislatively) throw yet more spanners at the 'no deal' exit scenario that Labour and the LibDems are desperate to stop.

    [Tactically ... Boris could follow convention, call the election, making sure that the run-up period to polling day was entirely take up with canvassing for votes, which would deny Brexit opposers any chance of making headway in the Commons with further wrecking motions / directives.]

    Labour have an answer for all this, though .... disgusting though it is ... !!! ....

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...U8XVyIXAKvHDsY

    John McDonnell has threatened to drag the Queen into a constitutional crisis by claiming Labour would “take over” if Boris Johnson refused to quit were he to lose a confidence vote.

    The shadow chancellor suggested he would send Jeremy Corbyn to Buckingham Palace “in a cab” to tell the 93-year-old monarch the party was ready to assume power, in the latest sign that MPs seeking to stop a no-deal Brexit are planning to embroil Her Majesty in politics as they run out of parliamentary options.
    In other words .... NO election, just a straight seizure of power.

    The presumption would be that Labour, as the second biggest presence in the Commons, would be the 'natural' alternative to the present Government. Never mind that in the recent MEP election, the newly-formed Brexit Party (committed to our leaving) trounced Labour to win a lot more votes, this proving the Public's wish to see Brexit succeed !! No. In this scenario, Labour just seizes power, then, if it's true to the newly-affirmed official position of being pro-Remain, they could just revoke Article 50 and kill Brexit off entirely !!

    I think this would finish Labour as an electable Party. They'd be defying the 2016 Referendum result. They'd be defying the well-established mood of the British people, who, today, have shown the great level of support Brexit commands. No ... Labour would be riding roughshod over all of that.

    Labour could take another route. They could seize power, go to the EU and ask for (& get) yet another extension beyond October ... then use that time to fight a General Election, in the hope of winning a majority of MP's capable of allowing Labour to have a stronger power-base ... THEN revoke Article 50, claiming that their winning an election gave them all the mandate they need to do so.

    But I don't think Labour have a prayer of winning that election. If they understand this ... IF ... then they'll just seize power and shun elections for as long as possible. Cue what I've described above. AND .. goodbye, Brexit !!
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-08-2019 at 11:14 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Drummond do you think it is improper for Boris to state that he will ignore the vote of no-confidence until he wants if he loses it?
    Last edited by Noir; 08-08-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Drummond do you think it is improper for Boris to state that he will ignore the vote of no-confidence until he wants if he loses it?
    I think it's entirely proper for Boris to make a promise to the peoples of the UK, then, to keep it !!

    The point of the No Confidence motion would be to force him to not keep it.

    The 2016 Referendum was perfectly clear. A majority wanted us to quit the EU. That Referendum gave Parliament a mandate, and a clear direction as to what should be the end result of our EU membership ... namely, that it should CEASE.

    Boris is doing his damndest to honour that mandate.

    Labour, the LibDems, and other rebels, are doing THEIR damndest to DEFY it.

    Who has the greater honour, Noir ? Whose is the more reputable stance ? Who has the greater respect for the democratic Will of the People ?

    WHO, THEREFORE, TRULY DESERVES TO WIN OUT IN THIS BATTLE ??
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I think it's entirely proper for Boris to make a promise to the peoples of the UK, then, to keep it !!
    and if Boris went to an election, and lost, who would be to blame for the ‘broken promise’ then?
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    and if Boris went to an election, and lost, who would be to blame for the ‘broken promise’ then?
    I'm not sure I'm following this.

    Is there an automatic assumption on your part that Labour would win that election ? State your basis for the 'certainty' that this would be the outcome.

    Labour could 'win', but so narrowly that they failed to command a Commons majority. Cue, then, more of the mess we've been witnessing these last several months; with the added complication of who they'd have to share power with, to so much as run a functioning Government .. AND .. the demands those other allied Parties might make.

    Then again, consider the stunning success the Brexit Party had, and the great electoral support they gained, just mere WEEKS after their very formation !! So ... imagine them having the balance of power, in a Labour minority Government. What, Noir, do you think THEY would demand, in return for support ?

    Go on. Take a wild guess ...

    So don't be too sure that Boris's promise wouldn't be met, even IF unavoidably delayed by the shortest of margins.

    Who knows. It's not totally impossible for the Brexit Party to win outright. Not from last May's showing, I suggest !

    No, I think that - utterly disgusting and reprehensible though it'd be - the most tactically sound decision Labour could take would be to seize power, as McDonnell has threatened. Would it finish them for all time as a Party 'true to democratic principle' ? Absolutely, YES.

    But if Corbyn is so short-sighted as to only care about grabbing power ASAP and stopping Brexit, he'll have to take that 'coup' route.

    I can believe he will, if he gets the chance.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    I'm back to seeing a sort of lack of functionalism to your system.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I'm back to seeing a sort of lack of functionalism to your system.
    I can understand that perception.

    I don't see it as being a fault of our system, though. Rather, this is all down to individuals being voted into a position of power, then abusing that power.

    How many Labour MP's represent a 'Remain' position, in complete defiance of what their constituencies want from them ?

    All, repeat, ALL, Labour MP's are now members of a Party whose stated position at the time of our last election was different to the present pro-Remain one !!

    Both major Parties have seen individual MP's rebelling against their own Parties over Brexit. It's created a dyfunctional mess.

    Labour's position of so much as considering seizing power, MINUS the convention of a mandating General Election occurring, is another example of an abuse of power (this is why the Queen would have to Constitutionally rubber-stamp the move).

    Had everything instead gone according to the proper route of democratic accountability, we'd have left the EU in March. Rebel spanner-throwing, in defiance of democratic mandate, put paid to that.

    The system isn't the problem. Those defying it, and their responsibilities, IS.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I'm not sure I'm following this.

    Is there an automatic assumption on your part that Labour would win that election ? State your basis for the 'certainty' that this would be the outcome.
    I think in the case of a general election both Labour and Conservatives will lose seats, Lib Dem’s and Brexit Party will gain. It is unknown if a Remain party’s or Leave party’s would be able to form a majority.

    If boris lost a vote of no-confidence, but refused to accept it, then pushed through Brexit, and then lost the election that followed, lol.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    I think in the case of a general election both Labour and Conservatives will lose seats, Lib Dem’s and Brexit Party will gain. It is unknown if a Remain party’s or Leave party’s would be able to form a majority.

    If boris lost a vote of no-confidence, but refused to accept it, then pushed through Brexit, and then lost the election that followed, lol.
    Things are as messy as anyone can imagine. You may be right. There's no way to judge who will gain (or lose) seats, not as things stand. Labour support is dire, thanks in part to their defying the 2016 Referendum, also partly because they've only recently managed to clarify their official status as a pro-Remain Party.

    Conservative support ... also not doing well. There's the stagnation of progress thanks to Mrs May .. and her chronically myopic zeal in seeing the agreed deal as the ONLY possible route forwards ... which was very decisively voted down repeatedly. The general public, I think rightly, blame the Conservatives for that (the rebels added to that dysfunctionality, of course).

    I think that Boris, because of his refreshing approach, CAN win outright. But there's no way to judge the likelihood of that. I'd say that if anyone can do it for the Conservatives, Boris can.

    Then again ... the Brexit Party may leech much-needed votes from either main Party. They'll pick up votes from disaffected Labour supporters, who are from constituencies currently Labour 'represented' but voted to leave ......

    I think that Boris will be very wise to avoid calling an election, even if he loses a No Confidence vote. Unorthodox or not, there's too much of a mess out there to work out what chance (if any) he really has to win. This'll maybe see Labour attempt their electoral coup .. which will kill them as a Party viewable as fit to be part of a democratic system !!

    Possible third-Party allegiances permitting, Labour MAY win out in the short term. Just what they win, and what they can do, may be dictated to them by whoever props them up !

    And in the longer term, they'll not be forgiven ... for defying the Referendum, for seizing power unelected, for betraying their formerly loyal voter base who really, actually, believed their 2017 Manifesto pledges ! I think it's very possible that a Corbyn-led Labour Party in Government may be the very last Labour Government we'll EVER see !

    Brexit may be the dagger that stabs the Labour Party to death.
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-08-2019 at 03:49 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  23. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I think that Boris will be very wise to avoid calling an election, even if he loses a No Confidence vote. Unorthodox or not


    “Unorthodox”

    You’re happy to have an executive continue to rule by ignoring a no-confidence ruling, meanwhile you harp on about ‘the democratic process’ that you think the opposition are abusing. You’ve never been shy in broadcasting your hypocrisy, but come on.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post


    “Unorthodox”

    You’re happy to have an executive continue to rule by ignoring a no-confidence ruling, meanwhile you harp on about ‘the democratic process’ that you think the opposition are abusing. You’ve never been shy in broadcasting your hypocrisy, but come on.
    I'll take no abuse from you, Noir ... is that crystal clear ??

    Boris is doing everything he possibly can to bring Brexit to the conclusion that the 2016 Referendum mandates. Finishing this is an already overdue task, thanks to the combined vandalism of rebel MP's, and, OF COURSE, Labour !! If you consider anything 'hypocritical' or 'undemocratic' in Boris's conduct, when all he's doing is OBEYING THE WILL OF THE ELECTORATE, then that in itself is offensive.

    I want you, Noir, to admit that Labour has betrayed its voters. It is no longer loyal to its own 2017 Manifesto, instead choosing to betray all those who voted the current crop of Labour MP's to where they are, believing they were going to DO what THEY SAID THEY'D DO, IN PARLIAMENT.

    Given all this, what exactly would that No Confidence motion represent, if not Labour's efforts to further defy its own electorate ??

    Chew on that one -- and desist from further insults, please !
    Last edited by Drummond; 08-08-2019 at 04:51 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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