Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
On your 'group think' point ... you describe it well. In fact, back in my teens (before I knew better !) I did suffer from it. I bought all the garbage the Left spoonfed us with, and to an extent I was even passionate about it. But, then ... I observed chaos and destruction, fomented by a REAL manifestation of Left wing politics, filtered into a destructive force courtesy of its incompatability and inevitable clash with human nature. I refer, of course, to Trade Unionism ... and its immense vandalism.

I rebelled against that hateful reality.

I've been rebelling ever since, with my evolved hatred for Socialism undimmed by time (if anything, intensified by its passage).

Noir hasn't rebelled. He swallows propaganda, not even aware that he's doing so, unaware that he's been programmed by societal pressures. I know better than that, which is what separates me from him.

My society is, in its everyday existence, 'anti-gun'; it doesn't relate to gun ownership at all. Yours does. This is nothing more or less than a difference in evolved culture. You had a 'wild West', a 'pioneering' origin, in a new and hostile land. We had none of that. Different histories ... and NOTHING to get judgmental about. Those who do exhibit ignorance.

I can't comment on racism in America, all I AM sure about is that you've made great strides in reversing it over decades (the Rosa Parks incident had a pivotal value). To the extent I can even judge, or SHOULD judge, I'd just say 'good for you'.

On the point of 'Left v extreme Left' ... unless I misunderstand you, I think you may be confirming what I've asserted in the recent past (?) .. which is, our viewpoints around what may or may not constitute 'extreme' Leftieism are markedly different. My understanding of what America has experienced of the Left is decidedly tame compared to the British experience of it, and you may recall I debated with Jim to argue this ... with Jim saying that your Left wasn't so different from ours.

If I paint you a picture of the Left as Britain has known it (and to varying degrees, right across Europe) .. I think you'd balk at that picture, not recognising the extremes I describe as having a correlation with America's experience of it. Obama's 'ObamaCare', for example, is still a far cry from our far more State-dominated and State run healthcare system. Try enforcing 'presumed consent' on organ donation, where your authorities plunder whatever organs they want from newly-deceased bodies, UNLESS the deceased had made officially recorded provision to prevent it ! Our Left, in Wales, pioneered that reversal in our law ... the rest of the UK is expected to follow suit in the coming years.

I've barely started to describe what our Left has done, and what it hopes to achieve, after, of course, the Left has done its utmost to indoctrinate everyone into accepting its changes, its social terraforming of our society. America hasn't as yet felt the reality of full-blooded Socialism. I pray it never does.

You will see what I describe as 'extreme'. To me, it's everyday life. Why ? Because the Left has got away with far more, and for far longer, than is true in America. We are 'terraformed' to an extent that you, are not.

I believe that your Left - in truth - are probably a clone of ours. The difference is that they dare not advertise their very long-term ambitions for America's future, because you're far from ready to swallow it all.

But Obama gave you the weakest of tastes of it. He merely hinted at what's to come .. IF .. the Right ever offers sufficiently weak opposition to help facilitate it.

This is why the support Trump has enjoyed is so heartening, certainly to me. With that being true, your Left has a daily reminder of how far they have to go, in order to make their hoped-for inroads. I believe this is part of why they hate Trump with such vitriol.

He's the perfect antidote for their poison.
As I stated earlier, the left as the right are along a continuum, the extremes are where violence could break out so currently would guess there are more extremists on left than right. The assumption may well be in error for the simple reason for more violence on the left has to do with the greater youth on the left.

Anyways, here is one look at the left and leaders v voters. For most Americans are practical. When it comes to politics I'm more idealistic than most on the right or left. Blame it on a lifelong love affair with politics, news. My majors in university simply reflected those. While it's pretty unusual to have a conservative in sociology, political science, even history, I never lost my compass or passion. Still haven't.