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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    That will remain to be seen. I don't believe the Queen is as powerless as some would have one believe.

    Tying yourself to mediocrity such as the EU offers was a loser move to start with. You think you got it all figured out, but it looks to me like the PM has YOU and your ilk figured out and your "drag it out forever" until it flips back to the "still enslaved" permanently. We have a political party here plays the same game.

    Now is the best time I can think of for the UK to make a move. I'm not going to proclaim President Trump the UK's "Messiah" as some have, BUT ... he DOES present opportunity for pro-BREXIT because he's willing to help. Not "save", but help. Was this happening during Obama's faux Presidency, the UK could scratch the US as any kind of potential help since that knucklehead would probably have tried to join the EU if he could have.
    I've posted on this before ... but, Obama did interfere during his Presidency. We were coming up to the 'Brexit' Referendum .. and Obama warned us of being put to the back of any queue to trade with the US, if we failed to SUPPORT our continued EU membership.

    Who knows ... maybe his hostile interference helped make up some minds to do the opposite. If Obama had been President now, he'd be ensuring that the UK was locked out of trade with America for a considerable time.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...k-queue-Brexit

    BARACK Obama was last night condemned for trying to “blackmail” Britain into remaining in the EU.

    The US President warned the UK would be “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with America if it quit Brussels.

    But his threat provoked outrage and scorn from pro-Brexit campaigners, who dismissed it as yet another scaremongering ploy from the pro-EU lobby.

    Mr Obama, who will no longer be in office when decisions on a trade deal are made, delivered a lecture to the British people on why he thinks it is in the UK’s, America’s and the world’s best interests for Britain to vote to stay in the EU on June 23.

    He weighed into the debate despite being warned by a host of anti-EU campaigners to “butt out” of our referendum battle.

    He said there could be a US-UK trade agreement “down the line” but warned: “It’s not going to happen any time soon, because our focus is on negotiating with a big bloc, the EU. The UK is going to be in the back of the queue.”

    The claim, made during a joint news conference with David Cameron, angered Leave campaigners.

    Tory Justice Minister Dominic Raab said Mr Obama had made “a pretty cynical intervention”.

    He added: “We’ve got a lame duck president doing an old friend a favour for purely political reasons – and taking a few unnecessary risks, being a bit irresponsible with the special relationship between our two countries.

    “You can’t say on the one hand that the relationship is essential and always will be, then say that if you don’t take my advice you’ll be at the back of the queue for a free trade deal. I don’t think the British people will be blackmailed by anyone ....
    Last edited by Drummond; 09-02-2019 at 02:55 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  3. #32
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    https://hotair.com/archives/ed-morri...-corbyns-bait/

    Tony Blair: BoJo’s Laying A Trap, And Corbyn’s The Bait
    ED MORRISSEYPosted at 10:31 am on September 2, 2019

    “We want a general election,” Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn declared today, in order to “do everything we can in the coming weeks to prevent a no deal [Brexit].” His more wily predecessor warned in response that Corbyn’s walking into “an elephant trap.” A general election is exactly what Boris Johnson wants, Blair argued later, because it will create a referendum not just on Brexit but also on the idea of the odious Corbyn as prime minister. Blair politely suggested that Labour might not like what British voters have to say about that idea at all:




    "None of these details added up at all": Dave Chappelle on the Jussie Smollett hoax


    “Boris Johnson knows that if no-deal Brexit stands on its own as a proposition it might well fail but if he mixes it up with the Corbyn question in a general election he could succeed despite a majority being against a no-deal Brexit because some may fear a Corbyn premiership more,” Blair said.


    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn “should see an election before Brexit is decided for the elephant trap it is,” he said.


    Johnson ally Jacob Rees-Mogg is already shaping the electoral battlefield in that direction:


    House of Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg has said rebel legislation would be considered a matter of confidence in the government.


    “It is important for the government to establish the confidence of the House of Commons and this is essentially a confidence matter: Who should control the legislative agenda, Jeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson?” Rees-Mogg said.


    Blair’s analysis matches that of practically everyone else but Corbyn and his allies. It’s been clear that Johnson has been maneuvering for a no-confidence motion in order to get “pushed” into a general election. Johnson can delay it so that a no-deal Brexit takes place before the election; in fact, it will be nearly impossible to hold an election prior to the October 31st deadline. Corbyn’s demand for an election puts the knife in his hand rather than Johnson’s, which is also a very clever trap by Johnson.


    Is it wise to push Corbyn into this position? Johnson thinks his no-holds-barred approach to Brexit will generate a lot of goodwill with voters, and thus far the data suggests he’s correct. A poll in the past two weeks showed the Conservatives vaulting to a 14-point lead over Labour, rising seventeen points from a May survey in the same polling series. Corbyn’s party declined six points in the same period. Some of Johnson’s gains came at the expense of Nigel Farage’s Brexit party, which advocated the hard line that Johnson has adopted. Combine that with the chaos of a no-deal Brexit unfolding at the same time, and a decision by British voters to allow Johnson to steer its course would not be surprising at all.


    On the other hand, Johnson will need strict party cohesion in order to win a general election. He has a one-seat majority in Parliament now, provided by ten seats from the Northern Ireland party DUP where Brexit was unpopular to start with and is getting more unpopular the closer a hard border comes. Johnson can’t afford to lose a single person — and yet today he’s threatening a purge unless Tories stop balking at his hardline tactics:


    Prime Minister Boris Johnson sharply raised the stakes in the Brexit fight on Monday, threatening to kick members of Parliament out of the Conservative Party if they don’t support his plans to leave the European Union next month.


    The move comes as Johnson and his opponents position themselves for a fierce showdown over Brexit on Tuesday when Parliament returns from its summer recess. …


    Conservative rebels reacted angrily to Johnson’s threat to force them out of the party, which would mean they could not run as Conservative candidates in future elections. A general election, as soon as the next few weeks, is a possibility if Johnson and his opponents fail to reach agreement over Brexit.


    Talk about traps. That would work if Johnson can guarantee that new Tory candidates can win in those constituencies over incumbents running under another party banner. It’s more likely that these incumbents are reflecting worries from their constituents over a no-deal Brexit, which means that the Tories would not only lose the power of incumbency but would be asking Brexit-skeptical voters to endorse Johnson’s crash-out strategy. Even if the Kantor poll from late last month is accurate, don’t forget that Theresa May forced an election when Tories looked safe in polling, too — and ended up losing the Conservative majority. Things change quickly in British politics, especially in the Brexit era.


    Perhaps the best thing Johnson has going for him is Jeremy Corbyn, but that could be a trap, too. Corbyn could step aside and allow a more moderate — or at least less anti-Semitic and more palatable — Labourite to take the reins of the party. If they do that after Johnson gets his general election, Boris might have stepped into an elephant trap of his own. That’s what Blair hinted at in today’s speech, not-so-subtly urging his successor to take one for the team and for the nation. Corbyn hasn’t been smart enough to see that so far, and unless he has this up his sleeve, he doesn’t appear to have figured out Johnson’s play even while everyone else has.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    If the BBC's accounts are to be believed (.. & this following a speech made by Boris just hours ago, following a 'surprise' Cabinet meeting ..) ... the latest thinking is that Boris wants to measure the extent of rebellion still in the Conservative ranks.

    We're in for some very 'lively' moments, imminently, in the Commons. Boris has tried to outflank the way things may go, by warning his people that disloyalty to the Boris line will earn the rebels deselection as Conservative MP's. This he'd follow up with a snap election, which may be settled BEFORE the end of October !!

    Boris, it seems, calculates that betrayers from within the Conservative Party may be enough in number to make his intentions nearly impossible to realise. The calculation would be that Boris has sold himself to the British electorate as THE politician who's listened to their wishes (as expressed in the 2016 Referendum), and so is THE person most willing to represent them.

    So, he'd hope to go into an election, win it, replace the deselected MP's with those loyal to the pro-Brexit Conservative manifesto, and have a properly workable majority comprising properly loyal Party members. Armed with all this, he'd have got rid of meaningful impediments.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49558596

    The government is expected to table a motion to hold a general election on 14 October if it is defeated by MPs opposed to a no-deal Brexit on Tuesday.
    Boris Johnson said he did not want an election, but progress with the EU would be "impossible" if they won.


    Tory rebels are joining forces with Labour to bring a bill designed to stop the UK leaving the EU on 31 October without an agreement.

    It would force the PM to request a delay to 31 January 2020 in that event.

    A senior government official said a motion for an election would be put forward if MPs take the first steps towards passing legislation to block no deal this week.

    The prime minister is confident he would win the required two-thirds majority for the motion to be passed, the official added.

    Speaking outside No 10 earlier, Mr Johnson insisted that with MPs' backing, he would be able to achieve changes to the UK's current Brexit deal - negotiated by Theresa May and rejected three times in the Commons - at an EU summit on 17 October.

    But he said if MPs voted to block no deal they would "plainly chop the legs out from under the UK position".
    Ideally, Corbyn would be wrong-footed, big-time. He'd have to issue a Party manifesto at odds with the preceding one ... and with people knowing that Labour's manifesto pledges aren't necessarily worth a damn. His 'vote of No Confidence' could only lead to a change in the Parliamentary status quo, which a General Election would deliver, anyway ! AND ... Corbyn would have to face all those pro-Brexit constituencies who voted Labour, who'll now feel betrayed.

    The truly amusing thing is that Corbyn is clearly DESPERATE for an election !! His lust for power has been plain to see, for a long time. He's blinded to anything and everything that threatens his dream of acquiring the PM job.

    We live in interesting times ...

    .... chaotic as hell ... !!! ......
    Last edited by Drummond; 09-02-2019 at 05:44 PM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    We’ll know more tomorrow, but I think we’re heading for a general election Mid-October.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Well there you have me stumped.
    I don’t know.
    and Drummond doesn’t care so I guess there’ll be no answer forthcoming from him - But Gove was absolutely clear when asked that suspending parliament was “absolutely not” to do with Brexit.

    I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, from all I've read.

    I think this is a way to deliver to the legitimate voters that elected to leave the EU.


    What say you and I make a wager? On December 1st of this year, we can revisit this and the loser pays Jim $50 for the board.

    Deal?
    Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrain View Post
    I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, from all I've read.

    I think this is a way to deliver to the legitimate voters that elected to leave the EU.
    I think the suspension is about Brexit too, but it all begs the question - why is Gove lying about it?

    What say you and I make a wager? On December 1st of this year, we can revisit this and the loser pays Jim $50 for the board.

    Deal?
    No.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    We’ll know more tomorrow, but I think we’re heading for a general election Mid-October.
    Indeed.

    I'm watching the BBC's output.

    I'm appalled by the total lack of contrition from any of the Conservative rebels who've been interviewed. It's abundantly clear that none of them are at all willing to listen to anybody .. and that they, right along with the Labour opposition, think they're there, in the Commons, just to do what THEY want to do, & to hell with anybody else's views.

    So I think that Boris's strategy, as 'high risk' as it is, is the right one. He just cannot have his task of dealing seriously and decisively with the EU forever undermined by rebellious factions !! The only reasonable thing he CAN do is to bring this all to a head, I think ... have a clear-out of the rebels, whoever they are, test matters in a General Election .. and, with his victory from that (?), get the numbers of LOYAL MP's behind him for a workable majority to then properly govern !!

    It's no exaggeration to say that the future of democracy in the UK is now at stake. A perception that MP's are willfully deaf and blind to anything the general public want, is the one that's coming across. Boris's approach should prove to a great many that integrity and receptiveness to the public Will still counts for something ... we badly need this !!

    [I'm annoyed, though. Much of all of this comes as a product of Theresa May's chronic, myopic weakness. If she'd only stood up to the EU, and not fought tooth and nail to get a BAD deal through the Commons (something she always pledged she'd never do: 'No deal is better than a bad deal', she CLAIMED) ... she'd still be PM, and we'd have left the EU by now !!!]
    Last edited by Drummond; 09-03-2019 at 05:06 AM.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    I think the suspension is about Brexit too, but it all begs the question - why is Gove lying about it?
    I think it's only a partial untruth, Noir. This is a new Session of Parliament, and Boris's intentions as PM are very markedly different to Mrs May's. The policy directions his Government will follow need to be thought out in great detail, then all stated clearly in a forthcoming Queen's Speech.

    All this takes time, in the normal course of events ... but now, we've got Brexit consuming all the available time, instead. What better way to deal with all this than through a 'reset', where Parliament doesn't take up all available time by employing its wrecking actions ??
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Here's a very optimistic commentary on what Johnson has unleashed:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...nto_place.html


    September 2, 2019
    As Boris Johnson amasses strength, strange things start to fall into place
    By Monica Showalter


    U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has shown some phenomenal political nerve in first shutting down parliament, and then insisting on party discipline on penalty of expulsion from the wets and wobblies in his Tory Party who'd rather drag the Brexit farce out to keep Britain caged within the EU just a little longer. He's got his eyes on the prize, knowing that it's his job to ensure that Britain can leave the European Union as British voters demanded. Like President Trump, he means to keep his promises.


    What's vivid now is that a whole lot of things he probably didn't expect -- and had nothing to do with -- are starting to fall into place for him from the outside.


    One we know about is that Johnson's Tories have started to soar in the polls. I wrote about that a few days ago here.


    But there's more, way more.


    How's this for 'betcha didn't see this coming?'


    The lefty Archbishop of Canterbury, who's the highest prelate in the Church of England (the head of the church is actually the queen), who of course opposed Brexit, has now had a weird change of heart. Here's the report from the U.K. Sun:


    The Archbishop of Canterbury has urged Remainers to “stop whingeing” and accept the result of the Brexit referendum.


    Most Rev Justin Welby said those who voted to stay in the EU must now “take seriously the fact that the majority voted Leave”, stating: “We may not like it, but that is democracy.”


    Wow. Just wow. Can you imagine one of our Catholic archbishops saying something comparable about the voters' will on the border wall and their right to having a nation ruled by law? That's pretty much what this lefty archbishop's change of heart amounts to.


    Here's another one, from the U.K. Express:


    Bern is hoping to ramp up research with London as its relationship with Brussels starts to disintegrate after their failed talks to strike up a permanent economic deal. Swiss leaders don’t believe “dogmatic” eurocrats are willing budge on their final three demands, making a deal being reached this year highly unlikely. The deadlocked talks have left relationships with Brussels, who blocked EU-based investors from trading on Swiss exchanges, strained over the summer.

    Failure to strike a permanent treaty could also see Swiss researchers blocked from the single market.

    Economy minister Guy Parmelin said this could lead the country’s top scientists to turn to new markets, including Britain after Brexit.


    He said: “I think the EU would weaken itself, it no longer cooperated with Switzerland on research.


    “We are then forced to seek alternatives, perhaps along with Britain, if the EU remains dogmatic.”


    So Switzerland has had it up to here with the European Union same as Britain did, and now it's making itself an ally of Britain. Britain can use these kinds of non-supplicant, totally out-of-the-blue, not even asked-for, yet totally welcome, allies against the arrogant monster in Brussels.

    The forces are amassing, and if Switzerland does this very publicly, you can bet a lot of them inside the EU and unhappy are thinking about it, too.


    Here's another one Boris didn't ask for, a voice of reason -- and encouragement -- from a market bigfoot:


    Here's a tweet crowing about it - can't tell if it ran in a tabloid or the person was just happy about it and expressing himself:



    But the content speaks for itself. Deutsche Bank represents big money and the chief economist says Brexit is foreseen as a good thing for Britain, not the screaming crash the left, the European Union, and its allied doomsayers are howling about. The headline claims that Germany and France are afraid of this (something the economist did not say) but an inference that is likely correct. This kind of talk can only serve as wind at Boris Johnson's back. The video link is here.


    Which brings up a fourth thing that is probably helpful to Boris. The tabloids seem to be on his side, exuberantly reporting all of these good developments. It's not the main press, of course, but having the popular press in one's tree again amounts to an unasked-for gift.


    Funny how Johnson's show of strength has this unintended consequence -- of a cascading chain reaction of 'events' (as Churchill once said) all moving to support Boris Johnson's direction.


    Image credit: Monica Showalter via IMGUR meme generator





    Last edited by Kathianne; 09-03-2019 at 05:17 AM.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    I think it's only a partial untruth, Noir.
    How very generous of you.

    Everyone *knows* this suspension of parliament is because of Brexit.

    But the government can’t just say that because they know exactly how bad it is to admit it. So they’re lying about it. And we all know they’re lying, but they figure enough people, like yourself, won’t care about being lied to.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Here's a very optimistic commentary on what Johnson has unleashed:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog...nto_place.html
    This all sounds great. I'm especially surprised by The Archbishop of Canterbury's 'rethink' ... presumably he's had protests made to him about his former stance ?

    ... still. In all of this, we're dealing with monumental egos. Conservative MP's who rebel against their Leader, and their Party. Labour, who have reneged on their manifesto pledges from the last election, defied pro-Brexit Constituencies who voted their MP's into the Commons, for ... what ? To have their wishes ignored or defied ??

    I've seen no sign of contrition from any rebel MP. I think that Boris Johnson is going to undergo the 'May effect', where Theresa May couldn't get anything of what she wanted past those Commons rebellions. Boris will find himself outvoted, I think, later on today; in which case, he'll have to hold an election if he's any hope of getting anything done in the Commons.

    What makes this especially annoying (quite apart from the insult to democratic process being perpetrated, where the Referendum result is being openly defied) .. is that, in a recent Conservative Party Leadership election, Boris won that very decisively .. and Boris made his intentions, as 'Leader-hopeful' extremely clear to everyone at the time. The rebels REALLY need to reflect on that .. not that they will ....
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    We’ll know more tomorrow, but I think we’re heading for a general election Mid-October.
    Chief labour whip Nick Brown has told the PLP that the Labour Party would not support the Prime Minster calling a general election, so Boris can quote “stew in his own juices” and be made to “own” his mess.

    A conservative also defected away from the Conservative party while Boris was making a speech to the house, reducing the governments majority in the house to zero.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    95CB35C8-2A16-4E79-8154-26DCD181C7DE.jpeg

    One wonders what kind of message someone like Mogg is trying to give when he knows this image is going to end up everywhere - how he “sat” during tonight’s debate.

    As described by one MP “The physical embodiment of arrogance, entitlement, disrespect and contempt for our parliament.”

    The house is currently voting to try and take control of parliamentary business tomorrow. - Boris loses the vote by 26 (Which is a very large loss given it was made clear to Conservative MPs that voting against the executive would result in them being removed from future ballots, essentially ending their political career), Parliament will be in control of tomorrow’s business. In response Boris states that he his going to start the process for an election 17th October, which he says he doesn’t want...
    Last edited by Noir; 09-03-2019 at 04:22 PM.
    If you also agree that an animals suffering should be avoided rather than encouraged, consider what steps you can take.

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    One has to wonder about people like you hoping like Hell for failure of something good. Sure you aren't an American Democrat?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    One has to wonder about people like you hoping like Hell for failure of something good. Sure you aren't an American Democrat?
    Same thing, living in a different country.

    Brainwashed, and anti anything nationalist or individualistic. All they've ever been taught is the leftist collective and group think.
    Last edited by High_Plains_Drifter; 09-03-2019 at 07:47 PM.

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