Vietnam

[Abbey Marie]

Saw this image of a lighter from Vietnam, and wondered what our veterans think about the sentiments on it. @Gunny ?

6E14AAA5-897A-48AD-8725-31A66802E417.jpeg

[Kathianne]

Saw this image of a lighter from Vietnam, and wondered what our veterans think about the sentiments on it. @Gunny ?

6E14AAA5-897A-48AD-8725-31A66802E417.jpeg

My impression is that someone had figured out the truth.

[Gunny]

Saw this image of a lighter from Vietnam, and wondered what our veterans think about the sentiments on it. @Gunny ?

6E14AAA5-897A-48AD-8725-31A66802E417.jpeg

Seen THAT before a time or "two"

It is (was) a sentiment of the time, and the Vietnam War. It's dated 72. There was no glamour by any means at that point in the war. The US was drawing down as a prelude to abandon the place. The "mission" was to stay alive and go home. Nobody wanted to risk jack to die for a war we gave up on and only the formalities of leaving remained. Last "guy/girl" out beats "last body bag out".

The "unwilling" would be the draftees who didn't want to be there to begin with, and the professional corps that didn't want to die for nothing.

The "unqualified" could refer to anyone from LBJ on down the chain.

What I WILL agree with that I consider current is "the ungrateful". If people acted even during my time in like they do now, I'd have probably done one hitch and got out. Sorry, but about half this Nation is not worth saving, IMO. Minimum had I stayed in longer I'd have dropped my papers effective the day BEFORE Obama was sworn in. No way would I have served under him and he DEFINITELY fits in the Top 5 of "unqualified".

The saying on the lighter at least while I was in was just given to the "a bitchin' Marine is a happy Marine" line of thought. If you were happy something was wrong and a Gunny was sure to come along and fix that for you

[CSM]

Pretty good synopsis by Gunny.

[Elessar]

Seen THAT before a time or "two"

It is (was) a sentiment of the time, and the Vietnam War. It's dated 72. There was no glamour by any means at that point in the war. The US was drawing down as a prelude to abandon the place. The "mission" was to stay alive and go home. Nobody wanted to risk jack to die for a war we gave up on and only the formalities of leaving remained. Last "guy/girl" out beats "last body bag out".

<snipped for brevity>

Dad was in 'Nam then. He got word from Mom that my draft pre-induction physical was scheduled.

He got in touch with me via the MARS network and told me if I got the induction notice, to pack up and head
North until I got to Quebec. He said no son of his deserved being in that shithole that was wrecked by politicians.
This coming from a decorated WWII and Korean War Vet.

All for naught, though. Army medic at my physical declared me unfit because of flat feet!
I thought that ironic because I had just lettered in college track and was one of the fastest guys
on the football team - plus 20 mile hikes with the Boy Scouts twice a year.

What the hell! I would have never driven to Canada, though.

[icansayit]

At that time. During Nam. "That inscription actually applied to EVERY AMERICAN THERE."

Nobody, and I do mean...Nobody at sea, on land, or in the air during all of those years...WANTED TO BE THERE!

Until you've personally witnessed (as I have...many times) the piles, and piles of Silver Caskets on pallets, sitting on a pier, waiting to be loaded aboard ships. You might not understand WHY that lighter spoke for everyone.

[STTAB]

Seen THAT before a time or "two"

It is (was) a sentiment of the time, and the Vietnam War. It's dated 72. There was no glamour by any means at that point in the war. The US was drawing down as a prelude to abandon the place. The "mission" was to stay alive and go home. Nobody wanted to risk jack to die for a war we gave up on and only the formalities of leaving remained. Last "guy/girl" out beats "last body bag out".

The "unwilling" would be the draftees who didn't want to be there to begin with, and the professional corps that didn't want to die for nothing.

The "unqualified" could refer to anyone from LBJ on down the chain.

What I WILL agree with that I consider current is "the ungrateful". If people acted even during my time in like they do now, I'd have probably done one hitch and got out. Sorry, but about half this Nation is not worth saving, IMO. Minimum had I stayed in longer I'd have dropped my papers effective the day BEFORE Obama was sworn in. No way would I have served under him and he DEFINITELY fits in the Top 5 of "unqualified".

The saying on the lighter at least while I was in was just given to the "a bitchin' Marine is a happy Marine" line of thought. If you were happy something was wrong and a Gunny was sure to come along and fix that for you

I took the unqualified to mean the seemingly unending line of 2nd LTs who streamed through Vietnam LOL. I mean 2LT's are almost always useless lumps of dogshit anyway, but stories I heard about Nam they were even worse. My uncle once told me the that the stories of fragging their own were not entirley made up.

[Gunny]

I took the unqualified to mean the seemingly unending line of 2nd LTs who streamed through Vietnam LOL. I mean 2LT's are almost always useless lumps of dogshit anyway, but stories I heard about Nam they were even worse. My uncle once told me the that the stories of fragging their own were not entirley made up.

I didn't want to go into the "90 Day Wonders". College-educated draftees qualified for leadership only by a piece of paper that says they majored in Business Administration. Punk-asses with licenses to kill. Then you got your ring-knockers (service academy grads for those who don't know). They know what's going on and how to fix it before they every get on the flight to go overseas because the academy said so Got your battlefield commissions/Mustangers/LDOs who were awesome enlisted men and should have stayed such because it was what they were best qualified to do. Off topic but never can resist taking the shot when it's there, John Kerry is a PERFECT example of all of the above.

As you state, 2ndLts are a menace to the military without any of the above. They "streamed through" because they kept dying.

One of the big issues was also Vietnam for the most part was a low-intensity conflict with troops spread out all over the place and command often fell to Lt's and Sgt's because command and control was at the squad/plt/Company level.

Then Walter announces the war unwinnable, support for getting out is a 68 Presidential campaign issue which means "somebody" is delivering no matter the circumstances, and you have the makings of a major disaster in the field. You tell me out on the line that "hey, we're just marking time awaiting the order to pull out and I'm thinking I don't care a whole bunch of Charlie is hiding a nuke in the bush over there. I'm not going to go see.

The leftwingnut US populace/MSM are THE biggest moral-killers the military ever faces. We ALL trusted Walter and if he declared the war unwinnable, by God, it was so. Even though he declared it amidst one of the most resounding US military victories of the whole damned war -- Tet 68. The North had sacrificed the VC and we gladly destroyed them, never to be a force to be reckoned with again, and committed the NVA to conventional warfare which the US sent back tot he Stone Age, It took them until 75 to attack the S Vietnam because it took them that long to recover from Tet.

Yet, we couldn't win Instant morale killer among a bunch of draftees with marginal morale to begin with. Brilliant, that.

[STTAB]

I didn't want to go into the "90 Day Wonders". College-educated draftees qualified for leadership only by a piece of paper that says they majored in Business Administration. Punk-asses with licenses to kill. Then you got your ring-knockers (service academy grads for those who don't know). They know what's going on and how to fix it before they every get on the flight to go overseas because the academy said so Got your battlefield commissions/Mustangers/LDOs who were awesome enlisted men and should have stayed such because it was what they were best qualified to do. Off topic but never can resist taking the shot when it's there, John Kerry is a PERFECT example of all of the above.

As you state, 2ndLts are a menace to the military without any of the above. They "streamed through" because they kept dying.

One of the big issues was also Vietnam for the most part was a low-intensity conflict with troops spread out all over the place and command often fell to Lt's and Sgt's because command and control was at the squad/plt/Company level.

Then Walter announces the war unwinnable, support for getting out is a 68 Presidential campaign issue which means "somebody" is delivering no matter the circumstances, and you have the makings of a major disaster in the field. You tell me out on the line that "hey, we're just marking time awaiting the order to pull out and I'm thinking I don't care a whole bunch of Charlie is hiding a nuke in the bush over there. I'm not going to go see.

The leftwingnut US populace/MSM are THE biggest moral-killers the military ever faces. We ALL trusted Walter and if he declared the war unwinnable, by God, it was so. Even though he declared it amidst one of the most resounding US military victories of the whole damned war -- Tet 68. The North had sacrificed the VC and we gladly destroyed them, never to be a force to be reckoned with again, and committed the NVA to conventional warfare which the US sent back tot he Stone Age, It took them until 75 to attack the S Vietnam because it took them that long to recover from Tet.

Yet, we couldn't win Instant morale killer among a bunch of draftees with marginal morale to begin with. Brilliant, that.

Best lesson I learned as a 2LT was that I only looked as smart as I let my NCO's make me look , and that's just the truth. NCO's are by design experienced soldiers and very few 2LTs have any experience (a few like me who Mustanged in , but that's sort of rare and anyway I still didn't have the experience of a Master Sargent or such) Later when I reached higher rank and had 2LTs under my command I always told them that "remember if you don't want to look like an asshole let your senior NCO advise you and by advise I mean tell you what orders to give" LOL

Too many dipshits come in thinking "fuck you I'm an officer, you're not YOU WILL OBEY ME" and from stories I've heard from Vietnam vets in every branch that was pretty much the way junior officers acted then.

Things have changed plenty now, even when I retired now been 9 years we had NCOs with college degrees so it isn't a case any more of "I'm better than you I've been to college"

[Gunny]

Best lesson I learned as a 2LT was that I only looked as smart as I let my NCO's make me look , and that's just the truth. NCO's are by design experienced soldiers and very few 2LTs have any experience (a few like me who Mustanged in , but that's sort of rare and anyway I still didn't have the experience of a Master Sargent or such) Later when I reached higher rank and had 2LTs under my command I always told them that "remember if you don't want to look like an asshole let your senior NCO advise you and by advise I mean tell you what orders to give" LOL

Too many dipshits come in thinking "fuck you I'm an officer, you're not YOU WILL OBEY ME" and from stories I've heard from Vietnam vets in every branch that was pretty much the way junior officers acted then.

Things have changed plenty now, even when I retired now been 9 years we had NCOs with college degrees so it isn't a case any more of "I'm better than you I've been to college"

I took officers as they came. I'm not knocking the education itself. I knock it when certain people think that it makes them an instant expert on everything.

I have no problem with those who chose to become officers. Same as any other choice, I guess. Just when it devolves into all the BS previously mentioned. Some of the best Marines i knew were officers, as were some of the worst. When you have a "factory" system set up to replace them under battlefield commissions you're just asking for it.

I can't even imagine being in a unit like Capt Medina/William Calley's. I would have walked out of the field and reported their asses if I hadn't just turned my weapon on Calley and threatened him at gunpoint. Murder was not okay at any point in time I was in. I don't care how smart or dumb you are.
.

[icansayit]

Though I served during Nam. I will never forget the SIX names on a Wall in D.C. with guys I knew then, from Pennsylvania, and a few others. Because of those terrible times. I still cannot go to the Wall anymore. Emotional is an understatement.

Probably will help everyone know why I Will Never Forgive John (the phony war hero) and his Hanoi Jane (notsofonda) Fonda.

For those who may not know. I joined the Navy in May of 1964. Retired in August, 1995.