Chi Com coronavirus T shirt

[Drummond]

I isolated this from the rest of your post, since it doesn't add up to me. Discernment refers to an ability to obtain sharp perceptions, or an ability to judge very well. Perhaps your discernment tool that is based upon lots of life experience can give you a remarkable ability to judge or perceive in the absence of sufficient information, but this tool is more useful if you have more information. If you refuse to sort through what you perceive as extremely biased information (most media sources are) to find the the truth, I dont think your discernment tool will do as much for you as you think. The more info you have, the sharper your perception and judgement. The part of your post that I isolated here sounds more like a garden variety lefty, and I think there is more to you than that.

Taken on its own merits, Evmetro, you make your point very well. It hangs together logically, and so it comes across as persuasive.

But I see a flaw in your argument ... in terms of its application, anyway.

If you could look at Right wing information sources, and then Leftie information sources, and fully and comfortably equivocate between the two, and fairly weigh them by reliably taking as truth points from each, yours would be a highly reasonable approach. This is how it SHOULD be.

It's just not that simple, though.

It's in the nature of Left wing sources to propagandise. To inject bias. To weight facts in favour of their agenda, to pontificate from them and reach conclusions from them, while at the same time completely ignoring information that doesn't favour the bias.

Yesterday I saw an example posted by Kathianne of just that, on another thread. A biased piece, designed to say that the UK response to Covid-19 was shambolic. That piece included certain factual information, and ignored other facts that disproved the contention of the article.

My point is this: as a rule of thumb, you CANNOT take Left wing material on face value. 'Discern' from it what you will, but in doing that, are you being misled ? Is the whole discernment process corrupted, rendered useless, through propagandist deception ?

As I see it, you'd have two options: one, hope that counterbalancing Right wing material is 'on the case', and allows you to pick up on the deception. Or, two, just treat the Left wing material with such suspicion that you think it wiser to disregard it altogether.

Option one only works well if counterbalances to Left wing material will always be there, always read, always a part of achieving the proper balance. ANY failure of this to happen gives the Leftie 'disinformation' its unfair edge.

Option 2 is therefore far better. Discern from using material you feel you can trust, and actively, very deliberately, disregard the rest.

So it is that I don't equivocate myself, and I rely on Right wing sources whenever I can. I do it deliberately, because doing otherwise just isn't reasonable.

I recommend you do the same.

[Evmetro]

Not a garden variety leftie ... You don't know me well enough to make that type of judgement. And you won't until you read everything I've posted so that you can actually discern what type of person I am. And, according to your stated philosophy, you need to use multiple sources to determine what is true. DP will be your only source so you will never have enough info to make that determination.

I just don't choose to inundate myself with extremist views....don't feel it's necessary in order to determine what is true. There are plenty of news sources that present news without sensationalized extremist headlines. I don't avoid opposing views about an issue ... I just choose those that are less biased in their headlines.

The part of your post that I isolated sounds like a garden variety lefty for the reasons that I described. When you interpret my comment about that part I isolated as meaning that I am judging your entire character to be a garden variety lefty, it appears that you are establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your rejection of news that isn't friendly enough made me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty?

[Evmetro]

Taken on its own merits, Evmetro, you make your point very well. It hangs together logically, and so it comes across as persuasive.

But I see a flaw in your argument ... in terms of its application, anyway.

If you could look at Right wing information sources, and then Leftie information sources, and fully and comfortably equivocate between the two, and fairly weigh them by reliably taking as truth points from each, yours would be a highly reasonable approach. This is how it SHOULD be.

It's just not that simple, though.

It's in the nature of Left wing sources to propagandise. To inject bias. To weight facts in favour of their agenda, to pontificate from them and reach conclusions from them, while at the same time completely ignoring information that doesn't favour the bias.

Yesterday I saw an example posted by Kathianne of just that, on another thread. A biased piece, designed to say that the UK response to Covid-19 was shambolic. That piece included certain factual information, and ignored other facts that disproved the contention of the article.

My point is this: as a rule of thumb, you CANNOT take Left wing material on face value. 'Discern' from it what you will, but in doing that, are you being misled ? Is the whole discernment process corrupted, rendered useless, through propagandist deception ?

As I see it, you'd have two options: one, hope that counterbalancing Right wing material is 'on the case', and allows you to pick up on the deception. Or, two, just treat the Left wing material with such suspicion that you think it wiser to disregard it altogether.

Option one only works well if counterbalances to Left wing material will always be there, always read, always a part of achieving the proper balance. ANY failure of this to happen gives the Leftie 'disinformation' its unfair edge.

Option 2 is therefore far better. Discern from using material you feel you can trust, and actively, very deliberately, disregard the rest.

So it is that I don't equivocate myself, and I rely on Right wing sources whenever I can. I do it deliberately, because doing otherwise just isn't reasonable.

I recommend you do the same.

Very well put, thanks. I confess to studying a broader range of media than what people typically use, but that is because I am a bit of a news junkie. One of the things that comes with this is that I have had to learn about the nature of each ideology bias, according to what kind if media I am consuming. The inherent corruption that comes with lefty media is very easy to adjust to. Most of the time, one only needs to zoom out a little to see how the context was manipulated. It doesn't take long to get your sea legs when you wade through all that corruption and deception.

[SassyLady]

The part of your post that I isolated sounds like a garden variety lefty for the reasons that I described. When you interpret my comment about that part I isolated as meaning that I am judging your entire character to be a garden variety lefty, it appears that you are establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your rejection of news that isn't friendly enough made me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty?

Do your research and determine for yourself.

The fact that you start categorizing someone right away because they don't adhere to your idea of news gathering seems to be a garden lefty type of tactic. Name calling and shaming. You've now referred to me as a leftie, snowflake and a victim. Are you a garden variety lefty trying to disguise yourself as a conservative?

[Drummond]

Very well put, thanks. I confess to studying a broader range of media than what people typically use, but that is because I am a bit of a news junkie. One of the things that comes with this is that I have had to learn about the nature of each ideology bias, according to what kind if media I am consuming. The inherent corruption that comes with lefty media is very easy to adjust to. Most of the time, one only needs to zoom out a little to see how the context was manipulated. It doesn't take long to get your sea legs when you wade through all that corruption and deception.

Well, if you can do that, I applaud you for it. Brilliant.

I agree. If you're sufficiently aware of what you're dealing with, sufficiently primed, then with proper care you can manage well.

So I concede your argument, with thanks. Happy studying !

Just one belated point, though. Evmetro, Sassylady deserves a break. She's a good and solid Conservative, and she earned my respect for that long ago, and no doubt always will do. If you're willing to listen to my advice, it's to start regarding her with that same respect ... and reflect it in your future posting.

Sassy absolutely deserves no less.

I hope I make myself clear.

[Drummond]

Do your research and determine for yourself.

The fact that you start categorizing someone right away because they don't adhere to your idea of news gathering seems to be a garden lefty type of tactic. Name calling and shaming. You've now referred to me as a leftie, snowflake and a victim. Are you a garden variety lefty trying to disguise yourself as a conservative?

One can't be too careful. I absolutely get that, Sassy. Be forever vigilant.

Even so ... I've just read this:

The inherent corruption that comes with lefty media is very easy to adjust to.

I've never yet had dealings with any Leftie who was willing to characterise their media in that way; they're too loyal to doctrine to bring themselves to reveal such a truth. So, I'm willing to give our newcomer the benefit of the doubt.

If that's wrong, then the truth will eventually surface, Sassy. It always does.

[SassyLady]

One can't be too careful. I absolutely get that, Sassy. Be forever vigilant.

Even so ... I've just read this:



I've never yet had dealings with any Leftie who was willing to characterise their media in that way; they're too loyal to doctrine to bring themselves to reveal such a truth. So, I'm willing to give our newcomer the benefit of the doubt.

If that's wrong, then the truth will eventually surface, Sassy. It always does.

I don't care one way or another if he's a leftie or rightie ..... what I do care about is someone making judgements and trying to shame others with name calling because they don't embrace their particular style of news sites.

I voiced an opinion about one of his news sites and suddenly I'm a leftie, snowflake and victim. He needs to do more of his vast research before he starts calling me names.

[Drummond]

I don't care one way or another if he's a leftie or rightie ..... what I do care about is someone making judgements and trying to shame others with name calling because they don't embrace their particular style of news sites.

I voiced an opinion about one of his news sites and suddenly I'm a leftie, snowflake and victim. He needs to do more of his vast research before he starts calling me names.

Agreed. You're right.

Well, I've given Evmetro my own view, as you'll see, if you haven't already. I'm sorry to see you misjudged, ever.

[Evmetro]

I don't care one way or another if he's a leftie or rightie ..... what I do care about is someone making judgements and trying to shame others with name calling because they don't embrace their particular style of news sites.

I voiced an opinion about one of his news sites and suddenly I'm a leftie, snowflake and victim. He needs to do more of his vast research before he starts calling me names.

Can you quote me calling you a lefty snowflake, or victim? Why not actually show where my comments are flawed or inaccurate? Claiming to have been called any of these things is yet ANOTHER reply that builds your role as a victim. I've had no reason to suspect that you are a lefty before this thread, but every one of your posts on this thread reads like it was posted by a lefty. Thanks for the link to the AllSides website, I'm very happy to have yet another source of information to study in my objective search for the truth. AllSides obviously isn't all sides if it doesn't include sides that snowflakes can't handle, but it is still a valuable part of my objective search for the truth.

[SassyLady]

Can you quote me calling you a lefty snowflake, or victim? Why not actually show where my comments are flawed or inaccurate? Claiming to have been called any of these things is yet ANOTHER reply that builds your role as a victim. I've had no reason to suspect that you are a lefty before this thread, but every one of your posts on this thread reads like it was posted by a lefty. Thanks for the link to the AllSides website, I'm very happy to have yet another source of information to study in my objective search for the truth. AllSides obviously isn't all sides if it doesn't include sides that snowflakes can't handle, but it is still a valuable part of my objective search for the truth.

Here ...

I am judging your entire character to be a garden variety lefty, it appears that you are establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your rejection of news that isn't friendly enough made me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty?

We are done with this conversation because you continue to try and use lefty shaming language because I don't agree with you instead of debating whether or not your website uses extreme language in their headlines. Typical leftist tactic to attack poster instead of debating facts.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I read the same stories that the site linked to without wading through disgusting extremist language headlines. Referring to the virus as chi com virus isn't needed to introduce a news link .....unless, of course, that type of language excites one enough to follow the link.

AllSides is a great place to see same info presented from three different aspects .... right, middle and left. Read the headlines for each story and you can see such obvious bias.

As for forcing myself to read extremely biased info to get to the truth ... not necessary. Discernment is great tool. That little tool is telling me that your website is not something I need to add to my info sources to get the truth of the matter.

AllSides
https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

Sassylady, thanks-- I bookmarked the Allsides site.
Going to check it out this week.--Tyr

[Drummond]

Can you quote me calling you a lefty snowflake, or victim? Why not actually show where my comments are flawed or inaccurate? Claiming to have been called any of these things is yet ANOTHER reply that builds your role as a victim. I've had no reason to suspect that you are a lefty before this thread, but every one of your posts on this thread reads like it was posted by a lefty. Thanks for the link to the AllSides website, I'm very happy to have yet another source of information to study in my objective search for the truth. AllSides obviously isn't all sides if it doesn't include sides that snowflakes can't handle, but it is still a valuable part of my objective search for the truth.

No, Evmetro. Sassy is right.

You're a newcomer here, and in principle it made sense to suppose that your unjust mischaracterisation of Sassylady could be a product of ignorance. But .. you've been corrected. So, why aren't you heeding that correction ?

Do you understand that, as well as your accusations / 'suspicions' being wrong-headed in the extreme, you've also no hope of gaining traction with them ? Sassy has been here for years. So have I. So have most of us. We KNOW her. We will know with unshakeable certainty that Sassy is no brand of 'Leftie', nor, I'm sure, ever could be.

But here you are, a newcomer, seemingly oblivious to all of that. You continue as you do. Logically, you can only be resisting correction because you choose to, and for no other reason.

That speaks of a certain wilfulness ... an agenda ? Which lends credence to the thought that, in truth, YES, you are most probably a Leftie yourself, agenda and purpose-driven, as one.

We know Sassy. You do not. Nothing of that weights your case in your favour. You illogically persist, nonetheless.

Seeing what you want to see, and nothing else, is a Leftie trait.

.... anyway, time will tell. From my perspective, you've made a deservedly bad start here. By all means, even if you are a Leftie yourself, represent that from a position of honesty, and advance your views, as one. Be HONESTLY what you ARE. Then, of course, your beliefs can be properly tested ... then, of course, comprehensively trounced. As they will be.

I promise you that.

[Evmetro]

No, Evmetro. Sassy is right.

You're a newcomer here, and in principle it made sense to suppose that your unjust mischaracterisation of Sassylady could be a product of ignorance. But .. you've been corrected. So, why aren't you heeding that correction ?

Do you understand that, as well as your accusations / 'suspicions' being wrong-headed in the extreme, you've also no hope of gaining traction with them ? Sassy has been here for years. So have I. So have most of us. We KNOW her. We will know with unshakeable certainty that Sassy is no brand of 'Leftie', nor, I'm sure, ever could be.

But here you are, a newcomer, seemingly oblivious to all of that. You continue as you do. Logically, you can only be resisting correction because you choose to, and for no other reason.

That speaks of a certain wilfulness ... an agenda ? Which lends credence to the thought that, in truth, YES, you are most probably a Leftie yourself, agenda and purpose-driven, as one.

We know Sassy. You do not. Nothing of that weights your case in your favour. You illogically persist, nonetheless.

Seeing what you want to see, and nothing else, is a Leftie trait.

.... anyway, time will tell. From my perspective, you've made a deservedly bad start here. By all means, even if you are a Leftie yourself, represent that from a position of honesty, and advance your views, as one. Be HONESTLY what you ARE. Then, of course, your beliefs can be properly tested ... then, of course, comprehensively trounced. As they will be.

I promise you that.

I respect that many of you have been here awhile and that trust and relationships have been formed. All I have to go by is objective questioning. On that note, are YOU able to objectively zoom out on the context of post 25 to see the truth behind her quote of me? What do you see if you OBJECTIVELY look at the full and correct context of my post that she isolated her information from? Are you still comfortable with the context she used it in to quote me calling something that I did not? For that matter can YOU quote me using calling her a lefty?

Your long term knowledge of her ideology is certainly something that I respect and have no reason to doubt, but as a newcomer I do not have anything to go by other than what she has posted. She may be the furthest thing from a lefty, but from a newcomer perspective, her posts in this specific thread are reading pure lefty. Post 25 with the deceptive misuse of my quote is the most lefty like post so far.

[Evmetro]

Here ...


We are done with this conversation because you continue to try and use lefty shaming language because I don't agree with you instead of debating whether or not your website uses extreme language in their headlines. Typical leftist tactic to attack poster instead of debating facts.

I don't understand why you are taking my words out of their correct context like this, it is what the msm does to get a headline. To the newcomer perspective, it feels like some kind of newcomer hazing or initiation to test my ability to trust that a righty posting like a lefty is really a righty. Hopefully, this will sharpen my discernment tool, and that we can make peace.

Regardless of what you and I are posting, I do see that a fellow member says you are not a lefty. Your taking offense to the notion that I am calling you a lefty suggests that you are not a lefty as well. Your posts on this particular thread are all reading lefty to my newcomer perspective, and I doubt we will ever get the debate between us on this thread straight. All I can do is assure you that I mean you no harm, especially if your perception that I am calling you a lefty hurts you.

[Drummond]

I respect that many of you have been here awhile and that trust and relationships have been formed. All I have to go by is objective questioning. On that note, are YOU able to objectively zoom out on the context of post 25 to see the truth behind her quote of me? What do you see if you OBJECTIVELY look at the full and correct context of my post that she isolated her information from? Are you still comfortable with the context she used it in to quote me calling something that I did not? For that matter can YOU quote me using calling her a lefty?

Your long term knowledge of her ideology is certainly something that I respect and have no reason to doubt, but as a newcomer I do not have anything to go by other than what she has posted. She may be the furthest thing from a lefty, but from a newcomer perspective, her posts in this specific thread are reading pure lefty. Post 25 with the deceptive misuse of my quote is the most lefty like post so far.

The answer to all of this, ultimately, is remarkably simple. Yet, you're seemingly determined not to recognise it ... and I have to wonder 'why'.

Trust and relationships have indeed formed. Of course they have, and from a good and solid basis.

You recognise the process. You studiously ignore and dismiss its value. Why is that ?

Sassy is known here not from just a couple of posts in one thread, but from a great many posts in many threads. I suggest to you that they all count for something.

You are new here. But you're also showing us - if I may be blunt - unsupportable arrogance. Trust and long-standing, detailed proof of the basis for it, easily outweigh (& massively so) the case which you still persist in trying to build.

Speaking for myself, I'll only say that the more determined your effort, the more questionable your true motivations become.

I'm saying no more on this.