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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    The answer to all of this, ultimately, is remarkably simple. Yet, you're seemingly determined not to recognise it ... and I have to wonder 'why'.

    Trust and relationships have indeed formed. Of course they have, and from a good and solid basis.

    You recognise the process. You studiously ignore and dismiss its value. Why is that ?

    Sassy is known here not from just a couple of posts in one thread, but from a great many posts in many threads. I suggest to you that they all count for something.

    You are new here. But you're also showing us - if I may be blunt - unsupportable arrogance. Trust and long-standing, detailed proof of the basis for it, easily outweigh (& massively so) the case which you still persist in trying to build.

    Speaking for myself, I'll only say that the more determined your effort, the more questionable your true motivations become.

    I'm saying no more on this.
    You didn't actually say anything here, considering that I already stated that I recognized that relationships had already been formed. I also stated that I respected those. Loyalty to your friendship with sassy can certainly be worth more than the posts of a newcomer, regardless of the actual truth. I respect your decision to steer clear of being objective, and of the way sassy misused the quote in post 25. Some of your earlier posts suggested that you had some interest in objective discussion, but I certainly respect that the loyalty of your friendship with her is more important.

    I may not be a fit for this small community, especially if objective discussion and debate are not welcome. There is much for a newcomer to learn about the social ins and outs of such a small community, but I will hang on a little longer. It would be strange for me to have to drop my position on this thread without seeing an objective agreement of everything that has been said, but it really is fascinating to see such a notion in play.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    You didn't actually say anything here, considering that I already stated that I recognized that relationships had already been formed. I also stated that I respected those. Loyalty to your friendship with sassy can certainly be worth more than the posts of a newcomer, regardless of the actual truth. I respect your decision to steer clear of being objective, and of the way sassy misused the quote in post 25. Some of your earlier posts suggested that you had some interest in objective discussion, but I certainly respect that the loyalty of your friendship with her is more important.

    I may not be a fit for this small community, especially if objective discussion and debate are not welcome. There is much for a newcomer to learn about the social ins and outs of such a small community, but I will hang on a little longer. It would be strange for me to have to drop my position on this thread without seeing an objective agreement of everything that has been said, but it really is fascinating to see such a notion in play.
    Manipulative, aren't you ?

    I haven't 'steered clear of being objective'. I say this because objectivity comes from certain knowledge and its recognition.

    I recognise the truth of Sassy. I have told you what it is. It is your subjectivity (based on what motivation ?) which governs your rejection of that certain knowledge. Knowledge built from years of experience.

    You are cherrypicking what you want to consider, and arrogance continues to motivate you. You can arrogantly, lacking all objectivity, dismiss all you're told. Or, you can accept known truth for what it is.

    Tell me why you're doing this.

    Or, stop.
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Manipulative, aren't you ?

    I haven't 'steered clear of being objective'. I say this because objectivity comes from certain knowledge and its recognition.

    I recognise the truth of Sassy. I have told you what it is. It is your subjectivity (based on what motivation ?) which governs your rejection of that certain knowledge. Knowledge built from years of experience.

    You are cherrypicking what you want to consider, and arrogance continues to motivate you. You can arrogantly, lacking all objectivity, dismiss all you're told. Or, you can accept known truth for what it is.

    Tell me why you're doing this.

    Or, stop.
    Part of the problem here is that I never called your friend a lefty. Your loyalty to your friend is a nice thing and all, but it feels like I am stuck defending a position that I do not even hold.

    There is a mess a few posts back where your friend took my words from a different post out of context to falsely quote me saying something I didn't say. That post will remain there as evidence to anybody who comes along, evidence that my words were deceptively taken out of their full and correct context, just like the MSM does to create fake news.
    Last edited by Evmetro; 04-28-2020 at 12:20 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    I don't understand why you are taking my words out of their correct context like this, it is what the msm does to get a headline. To the newcomer perspective, it feels like some kind of newcomer hazing or initiation to test my ability to trust that a righty posting like a lefty is really a righty. Hopefully, this will sharpen my discernment tool, and that we can make peace.

    Regardless of what you and I are posting, I do see that a fellow member says you are not a lefty. Your taking offense to the notion that I am calling you a lefty suggests that you are not a lefty as well. Your posts on this particular thread are all reading lefty to my newcomer perspective, and I doubt we will ever get the debate between us on this thread straight. All I can do is assure you that I mean you no harm, especially if your perception that I am calling you a lefty hurts you.
    Here's what I said after you alluded to my rejection of yours news site for using extremist headline language as an indication of me being a garden variety leftist. Perhaps you don't understand that conservatives can be conservative without subjecting themselves to extremist language. Might be a new perspective for you to consider.

    Not a garden variety leftie ... You don't know me well enough to make that type of judgement. And you won't until you read everything I've posted so that you can actually discern what type of person I am. And, according to your stated philosophy, you need to use multiple sources to determine what is true. DP will be your only source so you will never have enough info to make that determination.

    I just don't choose to inundate myself with extremist views....don't feel it's necessary in order to determine what is true. There are plenty of news sources that present news without sensationalized extremist headlines. I don't avoid opposing views about an issue ... I just choose those that are less biased in their headlines.
    Your full and total response to my post ...

    The part of your post that I isolated sounds like a garden variety lefty for the reasons that I described. When you interpret my comment about that part I isolated as meaning that I am judging your entire character to be a garden variety lefty, it appears that you are establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your rejection of news that isn't friendly enough made me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty?
    Because I rejected your notion of me being a garden variety leftist you then accused me of "establishing a victim" role in the debate. That in itself indicates a leftist tactic. When a premise is rejected move on to accuse the individual of being a victim.

    Then, also because I rejected your news site you allude to me being a snowflake. You have no clue.

    So, my conclusion regarding your posting in this thread is you do not welcome honest opinion about what you post and then in response to a dissenting view you resort to making allusions as to who I am rather than debating the merits of my opinion. If you don't think your news site uses extremist language then make that statement and hope it stands alone on the facts. No need to try and use shaming language.

    BTW, it doesn't "hurt" to be called a leftie ... the fact that you think so just means you're not as fully informed regarding me as you like to think you are. For someone who prides himself on being fully informed about a subject I think you need to do more research about who I am.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Here's what I said after you alluded to my rejection of yours news site for using extremist headline language as an indication of me being a garden variety leftist. Perhaps you don't understand that conservatives can be conservative without subjecting themselves to extremist language. Might be a new perspective for you to consider.



    Your full and total response to my post ...



    Because I rejected your notion of me being a garden variety leftist you then accused me of "establishing a victim" role in the debate. That in itself indicates a leftist tactic. When a premise is rejected move on to accuse the individual of being a victim.

    Then, also because I rejected your news site you allude to me being a snowflake. You have no clue.

    So, my conclusion regarding your posting in this thread is you do not welcome honest opinion about what you post and then in response to a dissenting view you resort to making allusions as to who I am rather than debating the merits of my opinion. If you don't think your news site uses extremist language then make that statement and hope it stands alone on the facts. No need to try and use shaming language.

    BTW, it doesn't "hurt" to be called a leftie ... the fact that you think so just means you're not as fully informed regarding me as you like to think you are. For someone who prides himself on being fully informed about a subject I think you need to do more research about who I am.
    The bold that you added shows a very different context than the way it really reads. Have a look at some other key words:

    The part of your post that I isolated sounds like a garden variety lefty for the reasons that I described. When you interpret my comment about that part I isolated as meaning that I am judging your entire character to be a garden variety lefty, it appears that you are establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your rejection of news that isn't friendly enough made me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty?


    Can you quote me calling you a lefty? What about the mess you left in post 25? Are you really good with taking my words out of context to create a narrative like the lefty media does?
    Last edited by Evmetro; 04-27-2020 at 09:55 PM.

  7. #36
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    evmetro ... it appears that you are the one now establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your continued allusions make me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty snowflake?

    Thanks for showing me how that's done.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    evmetro ... it appears that you are the one now establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your continued allusions make me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty snowflake?

    Thanks for showing me how that's done.
    Nicely said.

    You've done something I'd never do, though. Asking any Leftie 'how it's done', i.e how they operate, has horrific potential.

    Their methods are as disreputable as their motivations and goals. The world .. even the world of today, despite how it's changing .. has better experiences to offer !

    One might say .. 'Life's too short' ... '
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    evmetro ... it appears that you are the one now establishing a victim role in our debate, kinda like a garden variety lefty does. I do not know much about you, but your continued allusions make me suspicious that you might be a snowflake. Are you a lefty snowflake?

    Thanks for showing me how that's done.
    Lol, hijacking my rhetoric is a lefty thing too. I am sorry that we are in conflict. From what I have read of your posts before and during our heated debate on this thread, we shouldn't be in conflict. The written word is not always the most effective means of communication.

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    Nicely said.

    You've done something I'd never do, though. Asking any Leftie 'how it's done', i.e how they operate, has horrific potential.

    Their methods are as disreputable as their motivations and goals. The world .. even the world of today, despite how it's changing .. has better experiences to offer !

    One might say .. 'Life's too short' ... '
    I admire your loyalty to your friend throughout my debate with her, but I am not all that great with social politics. Logic and reason dont seem to mix well with social politics in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    Lol, hijacking my rhetoric is a lefty thing too. I am sorry that we are in conflict. From what I have read of your posts before and during our heated debate on this thread, we shouldn't be in conflict. The written word is not always the most effective means of communication.
    Yes ... it is a leftie thing to do, using their own rhetoric, but seems to be the only way to stop a leftie from continuing on and on in circles.

    Perhaps we won't be in conflict in future if you debate the issue (in this thread it is a news website and headline language) without allusions to my character. We'll see if you can debate without doing that.

    Have a good day.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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  15. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Yes ... it is a leftie thing to do, using their own rhetoric, but seems to be the only way to stop a leftie from continuing on and on in circles.

    Perhaps we won't be in conflict in future if you debate the issue (in this thread it is a news website and headline language) without allusions to my character. We'll see if you can debate without doing that.

    Have a good day.
    I still have questions about how a righty can be be a snowflake about The Liberty Daily and I still have questions about how you took my words out of context in post 25, but I was trying to steer the conflict to a draw. When I step back from our conflict and look at it objectively, i can see that it is plausible for a conservative patriot on my side of the political war to not appreciate TLD, and I can see how such a patriot could interpret my posts as actual accusations, even though they are not. I don't expect you to see things my way, and I probably won't see things your way, but I do offer to call this a draw.

  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    I still have questions about how a righty can be be a snowflake about The Liberty Daily and I still have questions about how you took my words out of context in post 25, but I was trying to steer the conflict to a draw. When I step back from our conflict and look at it objectively, i can see that it is plausible for a conservative patriot on my side of the political war to not appreciate TLD, and I can see how such a patriot could interpret my posts as actual accusations, even though they are not. I don't expect you to see things my way, and I probably won't see things your way, but I do offer to call this a draw.
    For what it's worth .. and whether or not Sassy accepts your 'generous offer', which isn't my business ... can I just point out that conceding defeat is a worthwhile choice ? If defeated outright, acknowledging it has honour attached to the gesture.

    I very rarely admit defeat myself, but that's only because I'm rarely defeated ! If / when bested, I acknowledge the fact.

    Just sayin' ......
    It's That Bloody Foreigner Again !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummond View Post
    For what it's worth .. and whether or not Sassy accepts your 'generous offer', which isn't my business ... can I just point out that conceding defeat is a worthwhile choice ? If defeated outright, acknowledging it has honour attached to the gesture.

    I very rarely admit defeat myself, but that's only because I'm rarely defeated ! If / when bested, I acknowledge the fact.

    Just sayin' ......
    I do not see defeat at all, and I can see that sass is not prepared to concede either. I offered her a draw because nobody has to win, and nobody has to lose. Apparently, we are both conservative Patriots fighting for the same cause, so I see no need to continue the conflict.

    If you see a path to victory with the debate that I was having with sassy, I would be honored to debate you on any or all of the items I was debating with her about on this thread. If you can beat me on any of the items, I will indeed acknowledge defeat. I am impressed with your posts and ideas, and I cannot be offended if you want to play.

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  19. #44
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    Drummond, if you are interested in giving the debate a shot, the items that would be debated would be pretty simple.

    1. It is snowflake behavior to avoid news sources because they don't sound nice.
    2. It is lefty behavior to establish the role of a victim.
    3. It is lefty behavior to take my words out of context in order to create fake news, as seen in post 25 of this thread.

    The debate is only that these items are lefty behavior, and NOT about labeling either you or your friend lefties, and the debate is only meant as internet recreation. It would be assumed that one could be a conservative patriot while posting like a lefty, and no bad feelings toward anybody.

  20. #45
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    I hope I can intervene for a moment and address these few things. Sassy is more than able to handle herself, but wanted to speak up anyway to offer an opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evmetro View Post
    1. It is snowflake behavior to avoid news sources because they don't sound nice.
    I don't believe so. I think some prefer "even" news, more factual and less sensationalism and rhetoric. CAN some lefties avoid? Of course, but so can righties on certain sites.

    2. It is lefty behavior to establish the role of a victim.
    Absolutely. Until they are not. But the victim card is used way too much. But I don't think they own it, seen some on the right, just not nearly as much.

    3. It is lefty behavior to take my words out of context in order to create fake news, as seen in post 25 of this thread.
    Been doing this for nearly 20 years. Both sides will do as they please when replying. Lefty behavior is best known as lying and hypocrisy. 2 larger traits anyway.

    Quite frankly, I don't see anything of the sort from Sassy. She doesn't deal in the fake news crap and is as honest as they come and shoots straight. You did 'judge' her to be a lefty based on extremely little, because you didn't like her reply. It may appear to you that she was seeking to be a victim, but she's also as tough as they come and without even looking I can tell you she didn't do such (but I did read). And again implied she was a lefty. Understood, folks ask questions, especially when not knowing one another very well. But then implied the snowflake thing, which is no more than an insult, IMO. And Sassy is FAR FAR FAR from a snowflake. Not many liberal cuckoo leftie snowflake women I know out there popping out the pistol to take out the smaller enemies.

    I've known Sassy aka MKP for quite a few years now. Just thought I would clear that up. Initially posting with people and judging by a post or 2-3, folks can misjudge.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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