A Michigan Barbershop Used Armed Militia To Stop Police From Shutting Them Down

[STTAB]

So you took this stance when the clerk refused to hand out marriage licenses to gay couples?

I did, she should have resigned her job if she couldn't follow the damn law.

[Abbey Marie]

The customers are there by choice. No one is forcing them to be there.

I don’t think I can say this more clearly. Anyone they potentially infect outside the salon due to exercising their “freedom” has no choice. Anyone they interact with in the grocery store, the home improvement store, post office, Walmart, on line anywhere, etc., etc. Once the numbers go down for 14 days, we can all get those super-important haircuts. Believe me, I’m looking pretty raggedy right now.

[Black Diamond]

You have literally told us how you see these things.

Or am I wrong and you're pro sanctuary cities and against employers opening up against the orders of Governors?

Of course I'm not wrong.

I told you how these pissed off people in MI are seeing things. I don't think the militia should stand in front of the barber shop and challenge the cops. That's what it was. A challenge.

[STTAB]

I told you how these pissed off people in MI are seeing things. I don't think the militia should stand in front of the barber shop and challenge the cops. That's what it was. A challenge.

If you don't think they should have done so, then why are you defending them? If you're just playing devil's advocate, fine.

[Abbey Marie]

So you took this stance when the clerk refused to hand out marriage licenses to gay couples?

I don’t recall if I took any stance, but I will say that you need to follow your employer’s rules, and if you cannot, you need to find another job. Same way I felt about all that kneeling during NFL games. Go protest on your own dime and time. But this is getting tangential, now.

[Black Diamond]

If you don't think they should have done so, then why are you defending them? If you're just playing devil's advocate, fine.

Devils advocate. Yes.

[STTAB]

Devils advocate. Yes.

I can dig that.

[Black Diamond]

I did, she should have resigned her job if she couldn't follow the damn law.

I am sure you did.

[Abbey Marie]

And this, ladies and germs, is how you debate well and without getting personal.

[STTAB]

I am sure you did.

I did, I don't remember if I was posting here then or not, but my principles are of utmost importance to me.

[Black Diamond]

Very good convo y'all.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

If you can guarantee that your haircut, and everyone else’s, won’t result in further spreading a deadly virus, I’m with you. But once your “freedom to do what you want” endangers others’ life, it’s not so clear cut, is it?

As I’ve mentioned here before, we use that argument against abortion all the time- it’s not just the mother’s life (read:freedom) in play. There is a baby whose life is about to be snuffed out. The left argues back that regardless, a woman should have complete autonomy over her body, and that it is a Constitutional right at that. And that her freedom trumps the baby’s life.

I say at the very least, if we are going to argue that we must be able to behave as we wish, on the bases of freedom and the Constitution, we need to do so consistently.

If you can guarantee that your haircut, and everyone else’s, won’t result in further spreading a deadly virus, I’m with you.

hmmmm, wouldn't that be an impossibility my friend? A guarantee?

Can you guarantee that it would infect other people?
I mean how so- if neither I or the barber were infected..
Everything in life is a gamble-as life is itself a gamble.

A strict adherence to the hiding away from others and stopping the world does not give a 100% guarantee unless one ---never-- stops taking that action.

Questions seems to be how just deep are we to hide and just how long?

If the world--must-- continue to function--then who gets to answer those two main questions?

Should it be each governor--or should it be the President, or should it be each town, each city, each county?

I go back to either declare Martial Law for the entire nation and force every citizen to obey these varying/arbitrary decrees or else admit the first break down came from not following the Constitution and the authority it gives the leader of this nation- the President.

That militia did an exercise in civil disobedience. They functioned without violence, the cops came and functioned without violence.

These arbitrary decrees by these governor are and will face judicial scrutiny in the coming days/weeks.months/years.

Problem is once we become conditioned to bowing down to the whims of local officials that assume powers their offices do not have- we are on the road towards breaking up as a nation.

To me that militia did almost exactly as did the militia's that opposed the British before ever the first shot was fired..

I have the right as a citizen to think that, give that opinion just as you have the same right to disagree.
And neither one of us can give any guarantees we are 100% correct in the opinions/judgments we have made on this very highly controversial issue,correct?

As my father and grandfather used to say often, , "wait-time will tell"..--Tyr

edit - below is my comment made on the recent Wisconsin verdict handed down-

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...-at-home-order

The novel coronavirus, first detected at the end of 2019, has caused a global pandemic.
Coronavirus Live Updates
THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS
Wisconsin Supreme Court Overturns The State's Stay-At-Home Orders

Tyr-Ziu Saxnot's AvatarTyr-Ziu Saxnot Tyr-Ziu Saxnot is online now
I've just begun to fight!

Join Date
May 2012
Location
USA, Southern
Posts
24,728
Thanks (Given)
27997
Thanks (Received)
15987
Likes (Given)
1937
Likes (Received)
1674
Mentioned
53 Post(s)
Rep Power
21475180
Default
I have said all along- they were issuing edicts that are allowed only once Martial Law has been declared.
I never saw Martial Law declared. Governors had no such such Constitutional authority. A fact.
Under the guise of protecting citizens, some of them blatantly and illegally engaged in actions assuming dictatorial powers.
Closing businesses, arresting and fining citizens, etc... A fact..-Tyr

There the court rendered a verdict pretty much backed my views about unconstitutional grabs by these governors...-Tyr

[Russ]

To throw my two cents in, I think it crazy for a shop-owner to bring a militia to barbershop. The essential idea is that if police show up they will start shooting, or at least threaten to.

Its actually CRAZIER, though, that a Governor would hear about this and send in the National Guard with guns. She is almost begging for a tragic incident by doing that. She should have waited a while for things to cool down. She is dam lucky that no National Guard, militia, or barbershop customers got killed or crippled by her orders. And I have to wonder if politics played a part in this. Gov Whitmer is an avid liberal and is on the short list of possible VP picks for Biden. Maybe getting to the top of that short list was a major factor in her decision?

I also agree with Tyr, that Governors probably don't have the authority to make some of these proclamations, at least not without their state legislature, or a declaration of emergency.

[Kathianne]

I've come to a point where I don't think that closing up everything is a great idea. Both economic and social needs are being impacted for too many that are not at risk. What is missing is respect for the other point of view-on both sides.

Those that are most vulnerable, need to keep taking the extreme measures that were advocated, though not done, by all. They must protect themselves, the government is not going to do it for them. Realistically, it may well continue until/IF there is a vaccine. It sucks.

Those that have been so strongly advocating for 'opening up', need to take a look at how irresponsible people are being and have been. From 'civil disobedience' groups, without masks, social distancing, etc. In MI and WI both, there clusters of breakout from those that gathered again without any precautions, spending lots of time yelling, (spitting) to be heard. In MI they also entered the capital and en masse tramped up a staircase. Brilliant. I was pleased yesterday to see the WI Supreme Ct ruled the stay home order unconstitutional. 45 minutes later, bars were jammed with young adults crammed together.

Adults-real adults-need to shame those that aren't doing what is right to protect each other, including keeping down the viral load that will trickle down to the most vulnerable in one method or another.

We need to keep space between each other-masks or not, your choice. Respect each others choices. Personally, I wish that businesses would require everyone to wear mouth/nose coverings, but I will do so. At least give others space, that does nothing to your rights.

I won't have government telling everyone that they must stay home, it's wrong at this point. At the same time, there is no way that I'm going to gatherings, flying on a plane, etc. I'll take risks, but not stupid risks.

[Abbey Marie]

I suspect that if I tried to shame folks for taking risks, they’d just call me a Karen.

Interesting that there have been outbreaks where folks are gathering again. That’s just what I knew would happen, and it will just get worse. Delaware’s governor is reopening the pools and the beaches on May22nd, though our cases are not decreasing, and of the 13 deaths we had yesterday, half of them had no underlying conditions.

What sucks for me is, once things reopen, my own family will be forced to take risks just to go back to work. When they shop, get gas, etc., there will be a lot more people rubbing elbows. We all know it’s true, it’s already happening. And what they bring home to me as a result is anyone’s guess. But hey, that’s ok, I’ll be staying home myself, and that’s good enough for me, according to the “open up now” crowd.

I am not advocating for total closure forever. Just can we please wait until the numbers go down for two weeks? Is that really too much to ask?