Bloody Civil war

[revelarts]

I think the outrage and calls for something to change should have same intensity. Both should be PEACEFULLY protested.

Like Colin Kapernick did? and many others who knelt over the issue? or those who "blocked the roads" peacefully marching, or
Heck even the using the term "black lives matter" was seen by some as an attack on white people and/or the police.

As i've said before i think rioting is criminal and counter productive but specifically what type of Peaceful protest over this issue would you suggest would be allowable or approved by you Sassy?

Maybe if young, black, stupid, misguided kids saw massive protests over their behavior it would get their attention.

I think it'd get their attention MORE if thuggish corrupt police changed their behavior, as many have done in several cities, then there'd be nothing to react to.

This chart shows more white people are killed by cops. I wonder how many are killed by black cops. And yet the white people don't start riots like this. Why?
Attachment 12657
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

You should tell me. but Ok
Part of it may be because over history most of those killings were clearly justified. and whites had little reason to doubt that if some weren't that the system would properly deal with it. (except in some cities with a an very corrupt police force). Why protest when you've been reasonably assured from childhood that your grievances and complaints will be heard and dealt with decently.

And as far as the stats go they are fine as far as they go
however the raw number of killings is only one aspect to look at.
from your chart
2018 #of whites apx 400 killed. #of blacks apx 200. apx half as many.
Ok what's the number of black and whites in the US?
2018 # of whites in the U.S apx 200 million # of blacks in the U.S. 40 million
I'm no rocket surgeon but the percentage of deaths for the black population is FAR higher.
Why?

[Gunny]

I don't know how this turned into a rev thing, but ...

We're already in a civil war. The writing's on the wall for all to see. You just have to want to see it. It started in 2008 with Obama and his assault on the US Constitution, and the Dems in Congress when in power. Attacking/ignoring/defying the US Constitution is declaring war on the United States of America, Obama annointed himself King and repeatedly ignored the Constitution to carry out his progressive, anti-American agenda.

And not one Democrat (unlike Republican't neocons) said a word. They cheered him on, fomenting the hatred that further polarized the people. The Dems blame Trump, but in fact, this crap started in earnest when GWB was in office and That POS Reid got control of the Senate.

People need to quit thinking in terms of 1860s-style, armies clashing in open fields and pay attention to the left sneaking in the back door while everyone is looking out the front. They're slowly taking over and they don't quit. The right quits and moves on after each skirmish while the left is still waging long-term war.

The President has accomplished a lot. Now consider how much he would have accomplished had he not been under siege, obstructed at every turn by Congress, leftwingnut justices and the MSM.

The war is here and the right is losing. And all this hope of dialogue with the people who are willing to compromise as much as Harry Reid? Pipe dream.

[Abbey Marie]

Problematic in and of itself. As I stated elsewhere, the reason for protest and the victim are overshadowed by the lawlessness. That is partly the fault of the lawless, and partly the media that gives them the attention.

I was wondering yesterday if we could poll these criminals, how many even know the name of the victim and what the crime was. Even more disturbing to me based on various different sources of info (to include posts on this board), it appears we have an undercurrent segment of our society of ALL ethnicities that don't give a second thought to hiding out among actual, peaceful protesters to go out and destroy and steal things they have not earned.

Nothing racist about saying it used to be predominantly blacks that reacted this way and have for half a century. Even though it wasn't and isn't PC to say it and no politician would dare address the truth, we could all SEE who was doing what. ANd yes, this DID start with blacks "doing the usual" when a black gets killed by a white officer. Sad but true, but it's hardly surprising to me anymore.

After this weekend though it appears there a lot more "entitled" criminals out there not worried about their skin color in the crowd as long as they can get a new X-Box

I can’t be the only one here hearing a ton of PC news reports today. Falling over themselves to show “understanding” for the looting and burning. Where can we be headed as a country when the apologizing liberals actually go this far?

[Gunny]

I can’t be the only one here hearing a ton of PC news reports today. Falling over themselves to show “understanding” for the looting and burning. Where can we be headed as a country when the apologizing liberals actually go this far?

They always apologize and show "understanding". It's called playing to the audience, or acting out their script.

There may be some whose feelings are genuine. Unfortunately, they can't wipe away 2 centuries of sensationalism that has led to countless violence and deaths and one all out civil war with "Sorry".

I will tell you straight up: I aon't kissing and making up with left, Dems, nor the MSM. I want them ALL destroyed to last uttered word of their history-proven, failed philosophy.

They may win a "civil war", but history shows it will be only to bring about their own destruction.

[Abbey Marie]

And Rev, regarding your point that we seem more upset at the reaction to the murder, than to the murder itself, consider this:

I’m sure you recall the Bobbit case. Lorena Bobbit’s husband John physically abused her repeatedly. One night, when she’d had enough, she got a knife and cut off his penis. I think the nation collectively was horrified by her “reaction” to his ongoing abuse. People felt the “reaction” didn’t make sense, and was well, too much.

That didn’t mean that anyone condoned or minimized or justified the husband’s abuse. Far from it. But in reacting as she did, Lorena managed to make herself look as bad as her husband, and I’d say, worse. So instead of using the legal system to have him prosecuted for his crimes, or leaving him, and gaining the compassion and sympathy of others, her actions shifted the focus to us looking at her with horror. And this was a crime that hurt only one person, not a video’ed one that affected hundreds of business owners and cities.

It may not be 100% analogous, but I think the point is illustrated.

Finally, I say this on here regularly, but I’ll say it again- you can care about two different things at the same time. There is room in hearts and minds.

[revelarts]

If you are wondering why, go back and read some of your posts. Even from yesteryear that someone was kind enough to necro up. You always start off accusing "cops" -- a blanket, one-size-fits-all -- of being the worst of the worst instead of just accusing the one or two or however many bad actor(s) in a given situation of what they have done.

You may not intend that, but your intent means nothing if others are perceiving otherwise. Just my opinion based on observation.

Ok, so How many times to do i have to say It's NOT all cops before people DON"T take it that way? or believe it.
My observation is that if you criticize any cops or part of a police force ,or any specific cities, or certain aspects of police training or lack thereof its BAD,
then you're tarred with the label that you "HATE cops"

it seems like knee jerk reaction. of some folks.


but ill try to make it clear, I've used this analogy before.

It's like being a Roman Catholic that's lived in a parish were pedo priest have been a problem for generations. it's not as bad as it was but sometime it still happens and the church does not handle it well.
the members still believe in God and want the church to work but some of them ALWAYS bring up the problems and want that CRAP FIXED.
Do they HATE the church? or think that ALL priest ore pedos? NO. Are they leery of NEW priest? yes.
Do they TRUST ALL priest without reservation? no. should they? Do they still call on the priest for weddings, funerals, advise, prayer, etc? yes that's what priest are supposed to do.
Should they NEVER mention the problems? Of course burning the churches down doesn't help and is a crime. (but can you understand why some victims would do it, can you understand why some might even hate the church?) But most of the members still want the church to operate but are not going to pretend that the problems of the past weren't real, or that those of the present will just be solved if they sit back silently and wait for the Bishops to deal with it.

If that doesn't help make my position clear... again.
Well Hey, whatever , I and all black people just hate all cop for no reason and we want to see cities burn down... to fix the problem.

If that idea is the only way people can understand any deep criticisms of policing in the U.S. then there's not much room for conversation

[Black Diamond]

And Rev, regarding your point that we seem more upset at the reaction to the murder, than to the murder itself, consider this:

I’m sure you recall the Bobbit case. Lorena Bobbit’s husband John physically abused her repeatedly. One night, when she’d had enough, she got a knife and cut off his penis. I think the nation collectively was horrified by her “reaction” to his ongoing abuse. People felt the “reaction” didn’t make sense, and was well, too much.

That didn’t mean that anyone condoned or minimized or justified the husband’s abuse. Far from it. But in reacting as she did, Lorena managed to make herself look as bad as her husband, and I’d say, worse. So instead of using the legal system to have him prosecuted for his crimes, or leaving him, and gaining the compassion and sympathy of others, her actions shifted the focus to us looking at her with horror. And this was a crime that hurt only one person, not a video’ed one that affected hundreds of business owners and cities.

It may not be 100% analogous, but I think the point is illustrated.

Finally, I say this on here regularly, but I’ll say it again- you can care about two different things at the same time. There is room in hearts and minds.

Well said (crossing my legs)

Back then too.. I remember women saying it's ok to do that if the woman is being abused.

[Gunny]

Ok, so How many times to do i have to say It's NOT all cops before people DON"T take it that way? or believe it.
My observation is that if you criticize any cops or part of a police force ,or any specific cities, or certain aspects of police training or lack thereof its BAD,
then you're tarred with the label that you "HATE cops"

it seems like knee jerk reaction. of some folks.


but ill try to make it clear, I've used this analogy before.

It's like being a Roman Catholic that's lived in a parish were pedo priest have been a problem for generations. it's not as bad as it was but sometime it still happens and the church does not handle it well.
the members still believe in God and want the church to work but some of them ALWAYS bring up the problems and want that CRAP FIXED.
Do they HATE the church? or think that ALL priest ore pedos? NO. Are they leery of NEW priest? yes.
Do they TRUST ALL priest without reservation? no. should they? Do they still call on the priest for weddings, funerals, advise, prayer, etc? yes that's what priest are supposed to do.
Should they NEVER mention the problems? Of course burning the churches down doesn't help and is a crime. (but can you understand why some victims would do it, can you understand why some might even hate the church?) But most of the members still want the church to operate but are not going to pretend that the problems of the past weren't real, or that those of the present will just be solved if they sit back silently and wait for the Bishops to deal with it.

If that doesn't help make my position clear... again.
Well Hey, whatever , I and all black people just hate all cop for no reason and we want to see cities burn down... to fix the problem.

If that idea is the only way people can understand any deep criticisms of policing in the U.S. then there's not much room for conversation

You are taking a topic that has done EXACTLY what Abbey posted above: you're stuck on the initial wrongdoing while the rest of the World has moved on to the more horrific reaction to it. You also tend to paint with a broad brush that would lead most readers to believe that nothing matters except the initial wrongdoing by the cop.

Straight up: Keeping the agreements in the family , I have to agree with Russ's assessment that there no comprehending what was going through that cop's head but air to hold a handcuffed and not resisting suspect down with his knee on his neck which among other things as I previously explained is not even the proper way to pin a prisoner with your knee. He would have to be unhandcuffed and the cop fighting off another suspect/assailant to even come close to justifying that.

What you want is a perfect World and it's not there. Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman were both Marines. So is it the Marine Corps' fault one flipped out and the other was so delusional he probably didn't really know his own name? It's going to happen. The Marine Corps didn't teach them to be criminals.

The cop is charged with second degree murder and the others are under investigation. Same as any other murder case in the courts in the US.

Making it a black thing is stupid. The stupidest cops I've run into were white and Hispanic. I didn't see skin color. I saw badges and guns on the wrong people. When you have a VIABLE solution, I'm all ears.

Solution or no, people capitalizing on alleged racism to create chaos sound a LOT like the left to me. Fix that too while you're at it

[icansayit]

Ok, so How many times to do i have to say It's NOT all cops before people DON"T take it that way? or believe it.
My observation is that if you criticize any cops or part of a police force ,or any specific cities, or certain aspects of police training or lack thereof its BAD,
then you're tarred with the label that you "HATE cops"

it seems like knee jerk reaction. of some folks.


but ill try to make it clear, I've used this analogy before.

It's like being a Roman Catholic that's lived in a parish were pedo priest have been a problem for generations. it's not as bad as it was but sometime it still happens and the church does not handle it well.
the members still believe in God and want the church to work but some of them ALWAYS bring up the problems and want that CRAP FIXED.
Do they HATE the church? or think that ALL priest ore pedos? NO. Are they leery of NEW priest? yes.
Do they TRUST ALL priest without reservation? no. should they? Do they still call on the priest for weddings, funerals, advise, prayer, etc? yes that's what priest are supposed to do.
Should they NEVER mention the problems? Of course burning the churches down doesn't help and is a crime. (but can you understand why some victims would do it, can you understand why some might even hate the church?) But most of the members still want the church to operate but are not going to pretend that the problems of the past weren't real, or that those of the present will just be solved if they sit back silently and wait for the Bishops to deal with it.

If that doesn't help make my position clear... again.
Well Hey, whatever , I and all black people just hate all cop for no reason and we want to see cities burn down... to fix the problem.

If that idea is the only way people can understand any deep criticisms of policing in the U.S. then there's not much room for conversation

How many cities have had riots, burnings, lootings after a White person/cop has been murdered by someone...no matter what the skin color?
If the opposite happens (and we know it does). Where is all of the SCREAMING and DEMANDS for reparations to the people and families of the White victims?

If you want the shoe to fit...it has to fit both feet. Does it not?

HATRED is a Taught and Learned aspect of life for all humans.

[Abbey Marie]

And the media is fanning the flames:



21F28075-E8B3-4B67-9021-ECECA2C1A199.jpeg

[jimnyc]

Trump needs to take action. He should have already. Here's the problem - Trump is acting politically... The right thing to do, regarding the violent people and the destruction - is get enough people out there to overpower these folks and subdue them. Many are standing back mostly and allowing for much of this to take place. Not enough police or guard out there. No direct orders of what to do, or so it seems. People are getting to the point that some are fighting back with these authorities. The destruction and looting has grown but the response to stopping them doesn't seem to be happening much.

Then on the other hand, if he does the right thing and overpowers and puts a stop to things, likely there will be deaths as a result. Destruction as it happens. Businesses and buildings and much more may be saved - and I believe it will hurt him politically. Between the democrats and MSM and Soros types, if he should get too tough on this, they will hold him directly responsible for anything negative that takes place. And many of them already blaming him for things. So I think he gets a shitload of heat if he leaves this to governors and it continues too long. He also gets a shitload of heat if he takes tough action and negativity comes from it.

Much different than covid-19? They blame him for actions, and in-actions, and everything in between. They are literally blaming him for everything and anything and any decision. The MSM is the worst I have ever seen them. Between the internet and TV, that's all that people hear and see non-stop.

So since they will do what they do regardless, Trump should solely be thinking about doing the right thing by America and the right thing by business owners and innocent people. Put a STOP to the madness ASAP.

BUT - the peaceful protesters should be allowed to do just that. But others are ruining it for them. So it's really impossible to allow the crowds and separate the peaceful and non-peaceful, IMO. They should be allowed though and that should be acknowledged. How to allow for it in these major cities and stop all the violence at the same time? I don't have that answer nor do I think it has a chance right now.

"No justice, no peace" is still a major chant and demand. And I believe it should apply now to an extent - but no one is acknowledging just yet the firing of the officers and the unheard of so quick murder charges against the officer. I think many should let this take its course. I do think he will be found guilty and spend years in prison. THAT is justice. But with many of this over a few short years, and I think the feeling is that justice for just one person isn't enough, and that it's long past due & that changes need to be made as well. I can agree with all of that, and do. And everyone I know that is pissed at this, is also pissed at the violence and destruction. I don't even think those folks give a shit about George Floyd or police violence. They are taking advantage and come to destroy and steal. I've seen white people, black people, spanish people....

Answer won't happen overnight. The destruction and stealing can hopefully be stopped. But ultimately folks must be allowed to express themselves peacefully. Good luck accomplishing that.

--

Also will be unpopular, but just painting the appropriate picture. The police have killed a lot of people over the years, of all races. Many are unwarranted IMO. And I'm sure the overwhelming majority are good shootings. But the percentage of black folks shot, and considering their population as well, seems more blacks have a better chance of getting shot, a much better chance in fact. One can argue that those folks simply committed such and such a crime and the numbers are what they are. And some could argue that some are unnecessary and the police are a little more trigger sensitive when it comes to black folks. That debate can go on for a long time, so I'm only touching on the subject and numbers, not creating a new debate within another.

--

Another aside on all of this ---- with the virus, the left took both sides. First Trump was racist and a xenophobe and others need to get back out there and even go to Chinese areas and such. Then in the other breath, they turn around and claim Trump didn't do this and didn't do that quick enough. They are going to blame him and run with it no matter what. And now they are thrilled with this, another opportunity to run 24x7 and blame Trump for everything. They may not like violence and destruction, but they do if it would help remove Trump from office. And make no doubt about it, if he were to have folks go in and end this overnight - they would find fault with the 'dictator' and anyone hurt fighting back would be his fault somehow. 2 horrible events - capitalized on by the left and MSM, and even agitated by them.

[Black Diamond]

This keeps up, "law and order" candidate will win in 2020. Biden ain't that. So it be behoove trump to be strong and act.
Also I could see hillary coming out of her hole looking tough, reinventing her image, saying only she can clean up this mess.

[Gunny]

All that's REALLY needed is for the MSM to get another dead horse to beat. Everyone will move on, nothing will change, and it will happen again next time a black gets killed.

Used to know this guy when I first started in the electrical trade who told me he hoped he got into an accident with a company truck (meaning someone else's company truck). Then he could sue and would be set. There ARE people like that out there.

I wonder how many of these "looters" just sit around praying for an excuse?

In the meantime, this just plays into the AOC-types' hands. Anarchy. The virus lockdown and government handouts. They couldn't dream this shit up any better.

[jimnyc]

And the media is fanning the flames:

Was that legit? Did the NY Post really do that? How many times they gonna get busted lying?

[Black Diamond]

Was that legit? Did the NY Post really do that? How many times they gonna get busted lying?

Until they are stopped.