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  1. #1
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    Default Daily Kos: Arkin Was Right, The Military Owes Us

    The mask is off at the Daily Kos, and the Kidz are cheering on William Arkin for his slam at the military: Daily Kos: Arkin Was Right - We Do Have a Mercenary Army and They Do Owe Us! (Hat tip: Killgore Trout.)
    from kos.....
    All hell has broken loose on the right wing Milblogs concerning an article William Arkin wrote at the Washington Post. In this article, Arkin dared to cross the line and say that the Military is out of line when it criticizes the American Public for being against the war. The military’s place is to do the bidding of the United States citizenry .. period! It is not for them to criticize the American population for deciding they no longer want to fund a war.

    This, of course, is a point I have brought up many times and the Milblogs when crazy then. You, the military, are the servants of the people. That is what you signed up for. We send you to war and we bring you home. We tell you when to wake up and when to go to bed. If you do not like that, GET OUT. But, that is the life you chose.

    The next thing the milblog right wingers were upset about was when Arkin called our Military a mercenary force. Well, guess what, it is!! To get people to fight this war we have had to add all sorts of additional benefits, bonuses, insurance etc. The only way to get people to go was to pay them a lot more - the definition of a mercenary. Also, if you count the 100,000 or so “contractors” over there, that is even more evidence of a mercenary force. I called it at this post last year.

    If the military is going to “take on” the American public by saying we have no right to change how we want to deploy them then they have joined the fight. I have said all along, and in the book, The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War the idea that the American military has lost contact with the United States Citizens has been proven. They have. Arkin called it right!
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    The mask is off at the Daily Kos, and the Kidz are cheering on William Arkin for his slam at the military: Daily Kos: Arkin Was Right - We Do Have a Mercenary Army and They Do Owe Us! (Hat tip: Killgore Trout.)
    from kos.....
    All hell has broken loose on the right wing Milblogs concerning an article William Arkin wrote at the Washington Post. In this article, Arkin dared to cross the line and say that the Military is out of line when it criticizes the American Public for being against the war. The military’s place is to do the bidding of the United States citizenry .. period! It is not for them to criticize the American population for deciding they no longer want to fund a war.

    This, of course, is a point I have brought up many times and the Milblogs when crazy then. You, the military, are the servants of the people. That is what you signed up for. We send you to war and we bring you home. We tell you when to wake up and when to go to bed. If you do not like that, GET OUT. But, that is the life you chose.

    The next thing the milblog right wingers were upset about was when Arkin called our Military a mercenary force. Well, guess what, it is!! To get people to fight this war we have had to add all sorts of additional benefits, bonuses, insurance etc. The only way to get people to go was to pay them a lot more - the definition of a mercenary. Also, if you count the 100,000 or so “contractors” over there, that is even more evidence of a mercenary force. I called it at this post last year.

    If the military is going to “take on” the American public by saying we have no right to change how we want to deploy them then they have joined the fight. I have said all along, and in the book, The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War the idea that the American military has lost contact with the United States Citizens has been proven. They have. Arkin called it right!
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
    Is this the same moron from the other thread? He seems to think he has every right to express his opinion; while, attempting to say military personnel do not have the same right. Bullshit.
    GET OFF MY LAWN

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    As usual daily kos is full of shit.

    Edited to ask for a link so I can tell them they are full of shit. Thanks.
    Last edited by pegwinn; 02-04-2007 at 10:18 PM.
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Is this the same moron from the other thread? He seems to think he has every right to express his opinion; while, attempting to say military personnel do not have the same right. Bullshit.
    I'm not sure if it's the same...I didn't go over to see...
    I just got this from Lgf's...
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

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    Personally, If I were a member of the military, I'd be pretty ticked if someone was telling me they could send us into combat and then take away all support to win. Why? Because then the chances of getting killed go up exponentially when you send troops into combat and cut their supplies.

    The people dont want to see the troops dead, they want to see the troops win.

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    Well I just joined daily kos so I could post a comment. But since I have to wait 24 hours...... here's the sneak peek.

    http://the--realist.blogspot.com/200...-rebuttal.html
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegwinn View Post
    Well I just joined daily kos so I could post a comment. But since I have to wait 24 hours...... here's the sneak peek.

    http://the--realist.blogspot.com/200...-rebuttal.html
    Is that your own blog pegwinn?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    The mask is off at the Daily Kos, and the Kidz are cheering on William Arkin for his slam at the military: Daily Kos: Arkin Was Right - We Do Have a Mercenary Army and They Do Owe Us! (Hat tip: Killgore Trout.)
    from kos.....
    All hell has broken loose on the right wing Milblogs concerning an article William Arkin wrote at the Washington Post. In this article, Arkin dared to cross the line and say that the Military is out of line when it criticizes the American Public for being against the war. The military’s place is to do the bidding of the United States citizenry .. period! It is not for them to criticize the American population for deciding they no longer want to fund a war.

    This, of course, is a point I have brought up many times and the Milblogs when crazy then. You, the military, are the servants of the people. That is what you signed up for. We send you to war and we bring you home. We tell you when to wake up and when to go to bed. If you do not like that, GET OUT. But, that is the life you chose.
    Wow - things sure change fast in the liberal world! Wasn't it only yesterday that our brave fighting men and women were poor, innocent victims of George Bush's misguided policies - more to be pitied than scorned? Now, all of a sudden, they're goldbricking plantation hands, who'd better be getting their asses back to work!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie
    The next thing the milblog right wingers were upset about was when Arkin called our Military a mercenary force. Well, guess what, it is!! To get people to fight this war we have had to add all sorts of additional benefits, bonuses, insurance etc. The only way to get people to go was to pay them a lot more - the definition of a mercenary.
    Wow again - not a "nothing's too good for our brave armed forces" to be heard - NOW. Political expediency can sure be a cruel and fickle master.

    You called it right, stephanie - the mask is off. The true face of modern American liberalism is the contorted glare of contemptuous hatred for the U.S. military implicit in its radical sixties birth. What a relief it must be for these bastards - to finally be able to drop the charade. How it must have chafed at them!
    Last edited by musicman; 02-04-2007 at 11:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    Is that your own blog pegwinn?
    Yep. Like it?
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegwinn View Post
    Yep. Like it?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself."
    Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephanie View Post
    I'm not sure if it's the same...I didn't go over to see...
    I just got this from Lgf's...
    I found the Arkin article to be disrespectful and a slap in the face. Soldier-err, Mercenaries???? Give me a fucking break. KOS is a piece of shit and I'm not surprised that they support this other piece of shit.

    The Arkin article is here:
    William M. Arkin on National and Homeland Security

    The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

    I've been mulling over an NBC Nightly News report from Iraq last Friday in which a number of soldiers expressed frustration with opposition to war in the United States.

    I'm sure the soldiers were expressing a majority opinion common amongst the ranks - that's why it is news - and I'm also sure no one in the military leadership or the administration put the soldiers up to expressing their views, nor steered NBC reporter Richard Engel to the story.

    I'm all for everyone expressing their opinion, even those who wear the uniform of the United States Army. But I also hope that military commanders took the soldiers aside after the story and explained to them why it wasn't for them to disapprove of the American people.

    Friday's NBC Nightly News included a story from my colleague and friend Richard Engel, who was embedded with an active duty Army infantry battalion from Fort Lewis, Washington.

    Engel relayed how "troops here say they are increasingly frustrated by American criticism of the war. Many take it personally, believing it is also criticism of what they've been fighting for."

    First up was 21 year old junior enlisted man Tyler Johnson, whom Engel said was frustrated about war skepticism and thinks that critics "should come over and see what it's like firsthand before criticizing."

    "You may support or say we support the troops, but, so you're not supporting what they do, what they're here sweating for, what we bleed for, what we die for. It just don't make sense to me," Johnson said.

    Next up was Staff Sergeant Manuel Sahagun, who is on his second tour in Iraq. He complained that "one thing I don't like is when people back home say they support the troops, but they don't support the war. If they're going to support us, support us all the way."

    Next was Specialist Peter Manna: "If they don't think we're doing a good job, everything that we've done here is all in vain," he said.

    These soldiers should be grateful that the American public, which by all polls overwhelmingly disapproves of the Iraq war and the President's handling of it, do still offer their support to them, and their respect.

    Through every Abu Ghraib and Haditha, through every rape and murder, the American public has indulged those in uniform, accepting that the incidents were the product of bad apples or even of some administration or command order.

    Sure, it is the junior enlisted men who go to jail. But even at anti-war protests, the focus is firmly on the White House and the policy. We don't see very many "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.

    So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?

    I can imagine some post-9/11 moment, when the American people say enough already with the wars against terrorism and those in the national security establishment feel these same frustrations. In my little parable, those in leadership positions shake their heads that the people don't get it, that they don't understand that the threat from terrorism, while difficult to defeat, demands commitment and sacrifice and is very real because it is so shadowy, that the very survival of the United States is at stake. Those Hoovers and Nixons will use these kids in uniform as their soldiers. If it weren't about the United States, I'd say the story would end with a military coup where those in the know, and those with fire in their bellies, would save the nation from the people.

    But it is the United States, and the recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.

    The notion of dirty work is that, like laundry, it is something that has to be done but no one else wants to do it. But Iraq is not dirty work: it is not some necessary endeavor; the people just don't believe that anymore.

    I'll accept that the soldiers, in order to soldier on, have to believe that they are manning the parapet, and that's where their frustrations come in. I'll accept as well that they are young and naïve and are frustrated with their own lack of progress and the never changing situation in Iraq. Cut off from society and constantly told that everyone supports them, no wonder the debate back home confuses them.

    America needs to ponder what it is we really owe those in uniform. I don't believe America needs a draft though I imagine we'd be having a different discussion if we had one.

    By William M. Arkin | January 30, 2007; 8:51 AM ET | Category: Domestic Role of the Military , Iraq
    Previous: A Feather of Force for Iraq | Next: New Middle East Commander Correctly Stays in His Lane

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    I read arkins column last week and his response to the thousands of posts and emails he recieved telling him he's a piece of shit. He is the consumate liberal. Self centered holier than thou turd. And kos is another one. The left has never been supportive of the military no matter how much they claim too.

    Personnally I think columnists like arkin are over paid and need to have their pay cut by 50%. After all, all they do is sit in a chair and type. What's that take. It's not like they ever get up and do anything.

    The iraq war is nothing like the Vietnam war. But the media war is the same one. The left is still fighting the same way they did then. Attack the administration and attack the military.
    When I die I'm sure to go to heaven, cause I spent my time in hell.

    You get more with a kind word and a two by four, than you do with just a kind word.

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    Well, here is where we see if I get banned from daily kos

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/4/94215/72624
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

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    I have been saying for some time now that the libs/Dems are lying through their teeth when they say "we support the troops..." I guess they just can't keep the charade up any longer.

    I have to wonder just what the libs will do when the day comes they actually NEED the military ... oh yeah, they never will need to defend themselves or this country... they will just surrender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSM View Post
    I have been saying for some time now that the libs/Dems are lying through their teeth when they say "we support the troops..." I guess they just can't keep the charade up any longer.

    I have to wonder just what the libs will do when the day comes they actually NEED the military ... oh yeah, they never will need to defend themselves or this country... they will just surrender.
    Oh, they'd fight.......

    to be first in line to kiss someones ass.
    I'm Phil -- 40 something heterosexual white male, fairly self sufficient, great with my kids, wed 29 years to the same woman, and I firmly believe that ones actions have logical consequences. How much more out the box can you get nowadays? -- MSgt of Marines (ret)

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