Vaccinations - back and forth

[tailfins]

Toward me? No. You're a passive aggressive coward against naysayers and anyone you can't shout down. You don't want the vaccine then don't get the vaccine. You're very free to ignore all the evidence that you want, good, bad, or otherwise, and inject another mindless rant into the 50th* thread where you can talk as tough as you want. Each time I see it though I chalk it up to another level of ignorant ravings.



*Taking a wild guess.

Señor, you don't seem to know how a true passive-aggressive operates. Mr. Tyr isn't subtle enough to be passive-aggressive. He has the luxury to not worry about the passive part since he is retired. For your viewing pleasure, consider Joshua Fluke's portrayal of passive-aggressive. Those who are successful in such displays get people to do things such as this:




This is REAL passive-aggressive:

[fj1200]

Señor, you don't seem to know how a true passive-aggressive operates. Mr. Tyr isn't subtle enough to be passive-aggressive. He has the luxury to not worry about the passive part since he is retired. For your viewing pleasure, consider Joshua Fluke's portrayal of passive-aggressive. Those who are successful in such displays get people to do things such as this:

He passively aggressively talks about some posters to other posters. Such bravery is astounding.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

He passively aggressively talks about some posters to other posters. Such bravery is astounding.

Idiot. There is not a single thing that I have ever said to you or about you that I would not be more than happppppppppppppppy to say to you face to face.
Your saving grace is -- that will never happen because what is true is that cowardly lying worms like you can never back up their words.
I spent years dealing with worms like you in bars and my time as a bouncer in two different clubs. plus a free service I provided to my dear Owen when he had his tavern years ago in the 90's, before he passed on.
So dont take about courage moron , I did all of that work for free , for almost 6 years. It was fun....--Tyr

[revelarts]

The main argument floating around of course is the vaccine and whether folks should be getting it or not.

Does it help? Does it not help? Is it worth taking? It's a personal choice, IMO, and the statistics seem to be 'missing' - just like when the government said the Vaers database was inaccurate at the moment, of which it was in fact. But I still haven't seen an appropriate update since.

The good news, somewhat, if you will about those taking the vaccination:

164 million folks vaccinated.





Rest - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


But I do not trust the CDC much anymore. I do not trust WHO anymore. I certainly don't trust Anthony Fauci. I definitely don't trust anything coming from this administration. I would never gather my information from any single one of those places.

That said - just as the numbers are really very very low to begin with. and the odds of croaking are also extremely low. The death rate is very low. Now if you're very old, and maybe also in a crappy nursing home, then worry a little maybe. 80 years old and above is still only in the 2% range and literally drops dramatically and then some when you hit 70 and lower and then even more so for 60-50. Myself in the 50 year old range equates to .007%.

You have a better chance of dying from suicide, overdose, falling down, gun crime, choking, sunstroke, radiation poisoning....

Seems like a low chance if vaccinated and a low chance if not vaccinated.

...
...
Rest - https://news.yahoo.com/people-taking...ycsrp_catchall

Exactly right the chances are low no matter what you do.

here's a Chart that the CDC put out that's very misleading in this regard.
CBS news and other have also used it to promote the idea that the vaccinated are doing so much better than those who are not.




When i looked at this chart I realized something.
I used to work at a newspaper, and I've done graphs and charts before.
the CDC's Chart, I have to say, INTENTIONALLY skews the overall picture.

I unartistically recreated the chart with the SAME DATA but so that ALL the data in the chart appears together.

this is what you get.


So if the Data presented is true, when seen All together the most anyone can say about the vaccine is that it seems to prevent infection.
It does nothing significant to prevent hospitalizations or deaths.
Since the GETTING Covid-19 does not seem to put many in the hospital and is NOT that deadly.
(BTW can we honestly attribute the slightly fewer numbers of deaths to the vaccines? correlation causation?)

Why can't the media and politicians and official medical professionals simply be honest about it?
rather than present this low grade propaganda to try to FEAR people into getting experimental vaccines that seems to be barely useful.

It's charts like the one from the CDC and hyped in the media which know better that make me MORE suspicious and LESS likely to believe the hype and less likely to take the vaccine.

"pandemic of the unvaccinated"
really?

[revelarts]

And Looks like Faucii and the head of CDC were lying about the % of deaths are in the vaccinated.
CDC's Own Data Shows 15% of In-Hospital CV Deaths in May Were Among Vaccinated Patients, Not 'Under 1%' As Officials Claimed

Quote:


FAUCI: "99.5 percent of the deaths, in the United States, are among unvaccinated people, and 0.5 percent are among vaccinated people. Boy, if there ever was a statistic that would stimulate someone to get vaccinated, I think this one is it."
— Ryan Struyk (@ryanstruyk) July 28, 2021


"Murthy said 99.5 percent of the deaths from COVID-19 right now in the U.S. are individuals who are not inoculated."

Be smart people - get vaccinated!
Surgeon general: 'I am worried about what is to come' - https://t.co/wEUC95UKLL
— Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) July 18, 2021


Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC "said that in states with low vaccination rates more than 99 percent of covid-19 deaths over the past six months were among unvaccinated people."


Opinion | The two numbers that could get people to take the vaccine https://t.co/LL5mWfX5iU
— Rodger A. Payne (@RodgerPayne) July 28, 2021


1/ THOSE LYING LIARS. While @cdcgov @Surgeon_General and Fauci all said 99% of #COVID deaths were happening in the unvaccinated THEIR OWN DATA FROM HOSPITALS SHOWED THAT IN MAY 15% OF DEATHS WERE IN VACCINATED PEOPLE.

This is a CDC document @washingtonpost has published… pic.twitter.com/6D636zabHR
— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) July 30, 2021


2/ But wait, it gets WORSE.

May's rate was five times (yes, 5x!) April's. The slide no has no June number, but the public state data suggests June was even higher.

Further, Delta was not a significant issue in May - suggesting the problem has nothing to do with Delta.
— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) July 30, 2021


3/ Further, yet another slide suggests efficacy in nursing homes is in the 65-75% range (this is what the Danish study suggested).

SOURCE: https://t.co/ip68CSQIf0
— Alex Berenson (@AlexBerenson) July 30, 2021


Israel, Iceland and other highly-vaxxed nations are all rushing to lock down a second time and rush out boosters but our public health "authorities" and Biden himself have spent the last two weeks claiming the "vaccines" are 99.5% to 100% effective.

.@POTUS: “We have a pandemic for those who haven’t gotten a vaccination…If you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized…you're not going to die. So, it's gigantically important we all act like Americans who care about our fellow Americans.”pic.twitter.com/cpsvzfXENn

https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=62420

And these are lies that folks catch them in.
Faucii is worse than a used car salesman.

[tailfins]

Idiot. There is not a single thing that I have ever said to you or about you that I would not be more than happppppppppppppppy to say to you face to face.
Your saving grace is -- that will never happen because what is true is that cowardly lying worms like you can never back up their words.
I spent years dealing with worms like you in bars and my time as a bouncer in two different clubs. plus a free service I provided to my dear Owen when he had his tavern years ago in the 90's, before he passed on.
So dont take about courage moron , I did all of that work for free , for almost 6 years. It was fun....--Tyr

Generally, working for free is simping unless it's done post-retirement to mitigate boredom.

[fj1200]

Idiot. There is not a single thing that I have ever said to you or about you that I would not be more than happppppppppppppppy to say to you face to face.
Your saving grace is -- that will never happen because what is true is that cowardly lying worms like you can never back up their words.
I spent years dealing with worms like you in bars and my time as a bouncer in two different clubs. plus a free service I provided to my dear Owen when he had his tavern years ago in the 90's, before he passed on.
So dont take about courage moron , I did all of that work for free , for almost 6 years. It was fun....--Tyr

You don't apparently understand the words being used. You're not even typing in response to me, your typing to others in response; hence passive aggressive. Besides, your nice little story above only confirms what I already know, that you can't handle anything you can't shout down.

As an afterthought, I haven't lied about anything yet you're being led around by your active imagination. I also am not sure what words I need to back up, this is a debate site and I don't get into threatening little hissy fits like you do. So if you want to back up your own lying words you can tell me what I've lied about. Be specific please or more likely slink away like your absent pal when asked to justify his bluster.

[fj1200]

Exactly right the chances are low no matter what you do.

here's a Chart that the CDC put out that's very misleading in this regard.
CBS news and other have also used it to promote the idea that the vaccinated are doing so much better than those who are not.




When i looked at this chart I realized something.
I used to work at a newspaper, and I've done graphs and charts before.
the CDC's Chart, I have to say, INTENTIONALLY skews the overall picture.

I unartistically recreated the chart with the SAME DATA but so that ALL the data in the chart appears together.

this is what you get.


So if the Data presented is true, when seen All together the most anyone can say about the vaccine is that it seems to prevent infection.
It does nothing significant to prevent hospitalizations or deaths.
Since the GETTING Covid-19 does not seem to put many in the hospital and is NOT that deadly.
(BTW can we honestly attribute the slightly fewer numbers of deaths to the vaccines? correlation causation?)

Why can't the media and politicians and official medical professionals simply be honest about it?
rather than present this low grade propaganda to try to FEAR people into getting experimental vaccines that seems to be barely useful.

It's charts like the one from the CDC and hyped in the media which know better that make me MORE suspicious and LESS likely to believe the hype and less likely to take the vaccine.

"pandemic of the unvaccinated"
really?

I'm not sure reworking the graphs tells the story that you want to tell. If you're trying to say the vaccine is ineffective I don't think that follows. If you're trying to say it's not effective enough to be worth it then I'm still not sure that follows from the data. If you're trying to say the messaging from the government is awful... Well I won't disagree with that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Señor, you don't seem to know how a true passive-aggressive operates. Mr. Tyr isn't subtle enough to be passive-aggressive. He has the luxury to not worry about the passive part since he is retired. For your viewing pleasure, consider Joshua Fluke's portrayal of passive-aggressive. Those who are successful in such displays get people to do things such as this:




This is REAL passive-aggressive:

I make a pleasant habit of not being subtle, some worms hate that about me, And I have rarely ever been called --"passive" what a joke some idiots dream up.
Since my standard stage is --sword sharpened to a razor sharp, keen edge and always ready to quite happily see it polished with that bright and flowing red liquid dripping.
I've been that way since age 15, that is 52 do or die years and still counting.
Some fools are proud of distance and the very, very comforting ability to hide away.
All that pride melts away like a lightening strike when they ever meet face to face.
Tis why the internet is plagued with so damn many of the ffing lying vermin, imho..-Tyr

[fj1200]

Collectively and individually building the best immune system is the best thing for everyone.
I'm not sure how anyone could make a case otherwise.
If grandma's immune system is at it's best, and she's not overweight, and her blood pressure etc is great. That's great for EVERYONE, her family and her neighbors... and the Health Scare system
All infections are met with robust natural defense and often quashed early and quickly and she has natural antibodies to deal with it going forward for years.
win win for everyone.

vaccines might be seen as a collective short cut, or end run, around the fact that to many people are in poor health immunity wise. But it's false to say that a population that collectively improves it's immune system is less of a benefit. It's A FAR MORE well rounded and collectively impactful approach to deal the issue. ALL diseases and ailments will be impacted by a healthier population.

BTW studies in Europe show that it's likely that the reason a few of the northern European countries have had less problems with covid than other nations (even without lockdowns) is it's high intake of vitamin D. Many studies show that people with high levels of Vitamin D in their systems who catch covid recover more often and faster. AND other studies show that OVERALL, the demographics that are medically well known to have LOW vitamin D levels are the most prone to hospitalization and death.

so YES COLLECTIVELY everyone is better off building up/promoting the communities immune system health. It's cheaper and safer and has multiple medical benefits. short and long term.
It's frankly malpractice that the officials haven't been promoting it more.

I think that goes without saying but we've many fat and/or old people in this country who are not in any way going to be able to build up their immune system to be able to fight it.

I'm merely saying this is an option, a seemingly effective option, that doesn't stand up to all the conspiracy driven paranoia surrounding it.

[SassyLady]

I think that goes without saying but we've many fat and/or old people in this country who are not in any way going to be able to build up their immune system to be able to fight it.

I'm merely saying this is an option, a seemingly effective option, that doesn't stand up to all the conspiracy driven paranoia surrounding it.

So, you want people with a healthy immune system get a shot because other people don't have a good immune system?

Not my responsibility and I will not be shamed into believing that.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

So, you want people with a healthy immune system get a shot because other people don't have a good immune system?

Not my responsibility and I will not be shamed into believing that.

I suspect he like so many others wants to follow the dem agenda whenever he can slip it in and still keep his false flag going. Tyr

[fj1200]

So, you want people with a healthy immune system get a shot because other people don't have a good immune system?

Not my responsibility and I will not be shamed into believing that.

Golly, not what I said at all.

[fj1200]

I suspect he like so many others wants to follow the dem agenda whenever he can slip it in and still keep his false flag going. Tyr

You've pretty much proven what I've said and failed to point out any of my lies. Thanks for the affirmation.

[revelarts]

I'm not sure reworking the graphs tells the story that you want to tell. If you're trying to say the vaccine is ineffective I don't think that follows.

Hmm. OK. does it follow... based on the data... that the vaccine is SO effective that it will make HUGE ... or even a 25% or 25 FOLD... reduction in hospitalizations and deaths?
seems clear to me that it does not.
And deaths and hospitalizations are what everyone is really concerned about. We don't want people dying or extremely sick.
And the honest version of the chart seems to make it CLEAR that the vaccines are NOT doing that.
And scientifically speaking the chart does not make it clear that what's makes the small difference in deaths per hundred thousand is IN FACT the vaccine.

The actually numbers of people work out to 40 people dying out of 100,000 who got the vaccine, compared to 960 people out of the 100,000 who were not vaccinated.
And looking at the rate of infection it seems VERY clear that having VERY large numbers of infected does NOT translate into large numbers of deaths. Even without the vaccine.

Completely ineffective? maybe not. Very effective? no. Marginally effective? maybe.

If you're trying to say it's not effective enough to be worth it then I'm still not sure that follows from the data.

people can make their own determination HOW MUCH risk they are willing to take. Some people like to play it super safe and will gladly take the short term apparent .92% less chance of death by individual/mass vaccinations. And along with that ASSUME the various vaccines will carry ZERO serious long term negatives or deaths.

But when i compare potential risk of covid-19 death to the unknown risk of experimental vaccine issues I don't see the .92% bump shown in this chart as significant enough. Especially since 98+% of all people who get covid recover... with natural antibodies that likely last a lifetime.

Bottom line the vaccine promoters seem to be OVER SELLING the product by a HUGE margin FJ.
If it were a stock would you put all your money into it? And tell your family to do the same? It's a New product/stock launch, unknown long term gains or losses, other similar stocks have crashed and burned.
And alternatives are available that seem similar in returns, safer buys, been bringing in revenue for 40 and 100 years?

If you're trying to say the messaging from the government is awful... Well I won't disagree with that.

Awful is one thing.
But deliberately misleading is another. At a glance the CDC chart makes looks like the vaccine has saved hundreds of thousands of lives. It's a FALSE impression. Then it put's a misleading point on it by saying that vaccine causes a "25 FOLD reduction" in deaths etc.. It's a falsehood.
This is the same kind of BS double speak the gov't uses when it talks about "Budget CUTS" when it really means it was RAISED LESS than some previous version of the budget. With politicians and U.S. budget office sadly we've come to expect this kind of BSery, this type of deception, but this is the CDC. They are supposedly trying to help keep us healthy and honestly informed. But they are frankly lying FJ.

As stated earlier the real numbers of deaths are 40 compared to 960... out of 100,000. In what world is that a "25 FOLD" reduction FJ?
The people are real and each death is a tragic horror show, but factually and statistically speaking are CDC are lying (and the MSM repeaters who have staff that can see through the BS just as well as I) and the vaccine is no where near as effective as advertised.

That's what the chart tells me.
Am i misreading it in some way. Can you honestly say that the vaccines look EXTREMELY effective in saving lives and preventing hospitalizations? So much so that they deserve the hype they've been given?