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    Default Chinese and Russian militaries link up, but analysts say both sides have differing-


    CNN
    CNN
    Chinese and Russian militaries link up, but analysts say both sides have differing objectives
    Analysis by Brad Lendon, CNN - Yesterday 3:36 AM


    © Savitskiy Vadim/Russian Defense Ministry Press Service/AP

    Jets screamed across the sky and cannons boomed in northern China on Friday, as 10,000 People's Liberation Army and Russian troops gave a live-fire finale to a week of military exercises touted by both countries as a new high in bilateral military relations.

    The joint exercises were the first of their kind to use a joint command and control system, with Russian troops integrated into Chinese formations, according to a statement by China's Defense Ministry.

    The exercises also provided an opportunity for both sides to test new weaponry, and for Russian troops to use Chinese-made equipment, including armored assault vehicles, for the first time.

    The joint drills, which were partially intended to enhance anti-terrorism capabilities, come as the security situation in Afghanistan continues to deteriorate amid the collapse of the US-backed governemnt in Kabul.

    But analysts in the West and in Russia have questioned the real military value of the exercises, suggesting Beijing and Moscow likely had differing objectives, from propaganda to economic.

    Speaking to CNN, Peter Layton, a fellow at the Griffith Asia Institute in Australia, described the exercises as mostly theater, put on for the media.

    Illustrating his point, the exercises, dubbed Zapad Interaction-2021 in Russian or Xibu Unity-2021 in Chinese, dominated Chinese state media last week, with multiple stories, photos and videos from the activities in northern China.

    Layton said the exercises seemed highly choreographed, without much opportunity for what he called "free play," when commanders on the ground have to make crucial decisions in the heat of battle.

    "Free play is what hones military skills, not highly choreographed airshow-like events," Layton said.

    Regional cooperation
    In recent weeks, Western headlines have been filled with stories of military cooperation among US-allied nations in the Pacific, including a British-led aircraft carrier strike group in the South China Sea and intensive exercises in Australia involving American, Japanese and South Korean units.

    But while Beijing doesn't have the number of allies and partners that Washington does, the drills offered the PLA an opportunity to demonstrate its own ability to work coherently with a regional partner.

    However, while both sides have touted their close ties, an actual Russia-China combat alliance doesn't seem to be in the cards, said Alexander Gabuev, chairman of the Russia in the Asia-Pacific Program at the Carnegie Endowment in Moscow.

    "Military cooperation doesn't imply a need for a defense pact with mutual obligation to go to war if the other party is under attack/wants you to participate in a conflict," Gabuev wrote in a Twitter thread.

    A formal alliance would limit each side's autonomy, which both highly value, he said. China doesn't need any obligation to become involved in the Crimea while Russia has no real interest in Taiwan or the South China Sea, Gabuev said.

    In the long term, Russia's motives for enhanced cooperation may be more monetary than military.

    Gabuev said in the Twitter thread that Russia sees a "window of opportunity" to sell more arms to China, which, despite its rapid military modernization, still needs Russian technology.

    And in training alongside Russian forces, China is buying something else, Gabuev notes, battlefield experience.

    For example, the Russian military has been tested in Syria and the Crimea in recent years. Some of that may be imparted to Chinese troops during the joint exercises.

    The last time China went to war was during a border conflict with Vietnam in 1979.

    New equipment
    As the exercise kicked off last Monday, Chinese state media highlighted the appearance of the J-20, the first time the PLA Air Force's decade old, top-of-the-line aircraft engaged in joint exercises.

    The state-run Global Times said the first appearance of the J-20s in joint exercises illustrated enhanced China-Russia military cooperation in the face of security challenges in Asia, as well as "direct threats from the US and its allies."

    The report did not specify the nature of those alleged threats, but the J-20s' appearance at the China-Russia drills comes just a few weeks after the US Air Force put on its biggest-ever display of stealth fighter power in Asia, sending more than two dozen F-22 Raptor jets to an exercise on the Pacific islands of Guam and Tinian.

    When the J-20 first flew a decade ago, China touted it as the answer to American F-22s and F-35s, the world's premier stealth aircraft. And after the PLA declared it combat-ready in 2018, Chinese military expert Song Zongping, in a post on the PLA's English-language website, said the J-20 would "engage with rivals in the future who dare to provoke China in the air."

    While the J-20s may have put on a show last week, they won't be among the warplane contingent China is sending to upcoming International Army Games 2021 in Russia, slated to start August 22.

    The state-run Xinhua news agency reports the PLA's force at those games includes J-10B fighter jets, J-16 fighter jets and Y-20 large transport aircraft, all of which will be making their debut outside of China.

    A Global Times report said H-6K bombers will also be in the fleet of 11 PLA aircraft.

    Illustrating Gabuev's point about real combat experience, the Global Times report, citing unnamed Chinese analysts, said their involvement in the competition will allow Chinese troops to make exchanges with other militaries who "have had experience in real combat, serving to further hone in their capabilities to fight in a real war."
    The truly scary part about this is--
    This comes about while we have the idiot puppet Biden in charge of our nation- in charge of our military...
    Let that soak in a bit and understand--never has this nation been more vulnerable in modern times than it is right now,,,
    So very sad but quite true..
    What is even worse is the dem party has no clue of this being the case, of it being a frightening reality. -Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    The truly scary part about this is--
    This comes about while we have the idiot puppet Biden in charge of our nation- in charge of our military...
    Let that soak in a bit and understand--never has this nation been more vulnerable in modern times than it is right now,,,
    So very sad but quite true..
    What is even worse is the dem party has no clue of this being the case, of it being a frightening reality. -Tyr
    And by the way- the article citing they both have differing objectives is a idiotic omission of what is the reality of this joint exercise.
    As both are publicly telling the USA --- we will cooperate fully to defeat you.....
    And both have nukes , both have trained military, both are communist...
    Question is-- could we defeat that combined force in a war-- without our having to use nukes..
    And do so-- with the idiot that is in charge right now?
    You see timing in battle is everything quite often...
    And the most damning part is the dems love the communists and blinded to reality by their own mad raging search for--absolute dictatorial control of this nation....-Tyr
    Last edited by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot; 08-16-2021 at 06:14 AM.
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    The truly scary part about this is--
    This comes about while we have the idiot puppet Biden in charge of our nation- in charge of our military...
    Let that soak in a bit and understand--never has this nation been more vulnerable in modern times than it is right now,,,
    So very sad but quite true..
    What is even worse is the dem party has no clue of this being the case, of it being a frightening reality. -Tyr
    "...So true...very bad stuff ....Biden "admin" needs to pack up and go back to their basements pointing fingers again...Much safer for America".




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    It's for show. Russia and China have two very different ideologies. Lumping them together as "commies" works only on the largest of scales. Historically, they don't along very well. Once you get past totalitarian regime, they don't have a lot in common. That and Mongol blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    It's for show. Russia and China have two very different ideologies. Lumping them together as "commies" works only on the largest of scales. Historically, they don't along very well. Once you get past totalitarian regime, they don't have a lot in common. That and Mongol blood.
    Most of it is for show-- trying to see how many concessions they can get from it..
    But there is a serious element of truth, of reality to it as well.
    History is a great teacher..
    We must remember how Stalin signed that secret pact with Hitler BEFORE- Hitler later decided to take Russia too (and failed miserably)...
    So Russia is known to do secret deals to advance its territories and power...
    I think very likely has done so again with China-- the old non-aggression pact strategy and the general theme of we both work together to weaken and counter America....
    Which certainly seems far more likely than it is less likely to be the case, imho.---Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    Most of it is for show-- trying to see how many concessions they can get from it..
    But there is a serious element of truth, of reality to it as well.
    History is a great teacher..
    We must remember how Stalin signed that secret pact with Hitler BEFORE- Hitler later decided to take Russia too (and failed miserably)...
    So Russia is known to do secret deals to advance its territories and power...
    I think very likely has done so again with China-- the old non-aggression pact strategy and the general theme of we both work together to weaken and counter America....
    Which certainly seems far more likely than it is less likely to be the case, imho.---Tyr
    I know my history. So does Russia. The Mongol Empire reached as far as the gates of Moscow. They still have a territorial dispute as well.

    This is a show for the West. Not especially us. For those Western Nations still banking on us as an ally.

    I agree about Russia. Any decision Putin makes will be based on self-interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I know my history. So does Russia. The Mongol Empire reached as far as the gates of Moscow. They still have a territorial dispute as well.

    This is a show for the West. Not especially us. For those Western Nations still banking on us as an ally.

    I agree about Russia. Any decision Putin makes will be based on self-interest.


    I agree about Russia. Any decision Putin makes will be based on self-interest.
    Exactly- the old we work against a common enemy strategy.
    With America being the common enemy.
    And that woooooorks soooo welllll -with the dems in charge.
    They did not dare try that back when Trump( "the dastardly rude man") held the reins..--Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    Exactly- the old we work against a common enemy strategy.
    With America being the common enemy.
    And that woooooorks soooo welllll -with the dems in charge.
    They did not dare try that back when Trump( "the dastardly rude man") held the reins..--Tyr
    I don't see them seeing us as a common enemy as far as a military threat. If the left doesn't get its heads out of its asses, we aren't going to be even an economic threat to China.

    China is not dumb. They are going after the money. Everywhere they can. Big enough market and they can isolate us from the rest of the World. Russia is just Russia. Always have been a bunch of thugs with a thug mentality.

    Both started talking shit about the US and Biden as soon as he took office. Mostly China. China's definitely flexing muscle. Who's going to do anything about it?

    Something else to think about: I'm betting right now that, minus the usual 10% of knuckleheads, the entire US military hates Biden and the Dems more than usual. Been there, done that. You think they're going to trust HIM as CinC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    I don't see them seeing us as a common enemy as far as a military threat. If the left doesn't get its heads out of its asses, we aren't going to be even an economic threat to China.

    China is not dumb. They are going after the money. Everywhere they can. Big enough market and they can isolate us from the rest of the World. Russia is just Russia. Always have been a bunch of thugs with a thug mentality.

    Both started talking shit about the US and Biden as soon as he took office. Mostly China. China's definitely flexing muscle. Who's going to do anything about it?

    Something else to think about: I'm betting right now that, minus the usual 10% of knuckleheads, the entire US military hates Biden and the Dems more than usual. Been there, done that. You think they're going to trust HIM as CinC?

    Right now China depends on us for its trillions to build its military.
    As it produces our goods then ships them to us at an exorbitant profit using its citizenry as slave labor.
    What is doing now, seems to be setting up threats -knowing the dems with idiot Biden will cave.
    And they can wrangle certain concessions-- one may be for them to take territory....
    Maybe Taiwan, Spratley Islands, the Phillippines-- or else who knows where.
    ONE THING IS FOR SURE --THEY SEE US AS THEIR FUTURE GREAT ENEMY- OUR ELSE WHY DID THEY BUILD THOSE HYPERSONIC INTERCONTINENTAL "CARRIER DESTROYING MISSILES"- DESIGNED TO DESTROY-- AMERICAN CARRIERS?--Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    ---------
    What is even worse is the dem party has no clue of this being the case, of it being a frightening reality. -Tyr

    Even more scary is the distinct likelihood that the real drivers behind this failing party appreciate exactly what is going on , approve and are happy to be part of the planned power shift .
    For whatever reason --- idealogical or simply being obligated from greed ( sex , money etc ) .

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