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  1. #31
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    Next step: FDA approval.

    Next next step: Get over the fetal tissue testing roadblock.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Next step: FDA approval.

    Next next step: Get over the fetal tissue testing roadblock.
    FDA has been approved for other uses 40 years ago.
    And no fetal tissue used in production or testing with Ivermectin.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    FDA has been approved for other uses 40 years ago.
    And no fetal tissue used in production or testing with Ivermectin.
    AFAIK the FDA would approve a drug for a particular use especially if included in a new patented cocktail.

    And Ivermectin and Hydroq... has the same fetal testing background as the Modern/Pfizer vaccines as I linked to in the other thread on this subject.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    AFAIK the FDA would approve a drug for a particular use especially if included in a new patented cocktail.

    And Ivermectin and Hydroq... has the same fetal testing background as the Modern/Pfizer vaccines as I linked to in the other thread on this subject.
    specifically addressing ivermectin. It's not a vaccine so I'm confused about your assertion.

    Also, not all covid vaccine use aborted fetal tissue.

    https://lozierinstitute.org/update-c...ed-cell-lines/
    Last edited by SassyLady; 10-10-2021 at 02:49 PM.
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    Ethical treatments for covid

    Math+ is an ethically uncompromised early onset treatment protocol, most effective if started as soon as symptoms emerge. iMASK+ is both a preventative and outpatient treatment, also ethically uncompromised, that uses Ivermectin along with Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, Quercetin, Zinc, Melatonin and Aspirin (for outpatient treatment). Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug that has been in use for over forty years, with billions of doses prescribed, and has been shown to enhance the immune system’s ability to resist viral infections and, in this specific application, inhibiting replication of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
    https://cogforlife.org/2021/03/25/an...t-to-consider/
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    specifically addressing ivermectin. It's not a vaccine so I'm confused about your assertion.

    Also, not all covid vaccine use aborted fetal tissue.

    https://lozierinstitute.org/update-c...ed-cell-lines/
    I linked in another thread. My assertion is if you have a religious objection to the vaccine based on fetal cells then you would have the same religious objection to Ivermectin and many other commonly used drugs.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I linked in another thread. My assertion is if you have a religious objection to the vaccine based on fetal cells then you would have the same religious objection to Ivermectin and many other commonly used drugs.
    Your assertion is incorrect unless you can show direct evidence that aborted fetal tissue is used in the development and production of ivermectin specifically. Especially since you made the direct implication that it is used in ivermectin.

    I don't believe it is. The link I posted from COG, Children of God, feels it meets the ethical criteria of being uncompromised for religious proposes.

    You also failed to recognize there are other vaccines for covid not using fetal cells.
    Last edited by SassyLady; 10-10-2021 at 05:14 PM.
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    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    specifically addressing ivermectin. It's not a vaccine so I'm confused about your assertion.

    Also, not all covid vaccine use aborted fetal tissue.

    https://lozierinstitute.org/update-c...ed-cell-lines/
    Sadly, in this case, I think FJ may be right.

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throug...dern-medicine/
    Last edited by revelarts; 10-10-2021 at 07:46 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Sadly, in this case, I think FJ may be right.

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throug...dern-medicine/
    Isn't "tested on" different than "grown on"?

    I guess either way aborted fetal cells are used. I concede that it is more common than I thought. And should cause more controversy than it has. If the general public knew this perhaps there would be even more hesitancy about use of drugs.
    Last edited by SassyLady; 10-10-2021 at 08:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Your assertion is incorrect unless you can show direct evidence that aborted fetal tissue is used in the development and production of ivermectin specifically. Especially since you made the direct implication that it is used in ivermectin.

    I don't believe it is. The link I posted from COG, Children of God, feels it meets the ethical criteria of being uncompromised for religious proposes.

    You also failed to recognize there are other vaccines for covid not using fetal cells.
    There's more than 1 way to get fetal tissues. Apparently 1 line comes from the Netherlands and is likely from a miscarriage in 1973; abortions were illegal there at the time. Another line apparently came from CA in the 80's so possibly more likely to be an abortion. Almost all drugs are tested against fetal tissues so we know it's safe for humans and Moderna/Pfizer fit this bill but the J&J is more closely linked to fetal cells; details in the other thread where I posted a video. Erick Erickson spelled it all out last week. I don't really think that there are valid religious concerns, on this front anyway, that are more onerous than if you're already using the multitude of other drugs that were developed in the same manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Isn't "tested on" different than "grown on"?

    I guess either way aborted fetal cells are used. I concede that it is more common than I thought. And should cause more controversy than it has. If the general public knew this perhaps there would be even more hesitancy about use of drugs.
    I can only guess that cells can be obtained in more ethical manner.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    Agreed!

    See Bachman Turner Overdrive --- You ain't seen nothing yet .

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    A Judge Stands up to a Hospital: "Step Aside" and Give a Dying Man Ivermectin
    A Chicago-area judge saved a grandfather's life with the single question that exposes hospitals blocking doctors from using a safe, FDA-approved drug: Why?

    https://rescue.substack.com/p/a-judg...-hospital-step
    Sun Ng, a retired contractor from Hong Kong, traveled to Illinois to celebrate his only granddaughter’s first birthday. He got covid and was near death in a Chicago-area hospital. All other options were exhausted, but the hospital refused to give Mr. Ng a generic, FDA-approved drug with an extraordinary safety record that a doctor believed could safe his life.

    Finally, a judge asked the right question about ivermectin.
    “What’s the downside?”

    Put another way: If a man is dying of covid in an ICU and all else has been tried, why not order a hospital to give a safe, last-ditch drug?

    Edward Hospital, located near Chicago, offered three arguments as to why Sun Ng, seventy-one, should not be given ivermectin:
    •There could be side effects.
    •Ordering ivermectin would violate its policies.
    •Forcing the issue would be “extraordinary” judicial overreach.
    On each argument, DuPage County Circuit Court Judge Paul Fullerton firmly disagreed.

    “I can’t think of a more extraordinary situation than when we are talking about a man’s life,” he said in a November 5 decision that is a model of rational decision-making in an irrational era.
    “I am not forcing this hospital to do anything other than to step aside,” he continued in a Zoom hearing. “I am just asking—or not asking—I am ordering through the Court’s power to allow Dr. Bain to have the emergency privileges and administer this medicine.”

    The hospital ultimately stepped aside. Dr. Alan Bain, an internist, administered a five-day course of 24 milligrams of ivermectin, from November 8 through November 12.
    Ng, who with his wife, Ying, had come from Hong Kong to celebrate their granddaughter’s birthday, was able to breathe without a ventilator within five days—he, in fact, removed the endotracheal himself. He left the ICU Tuesday, November 16, and, although confused and weak, was breathing Sunday without supplemental oxygen on a regular hospital floor.
    “Every day after ivermectin, there was accelerated and stable improvement,” said Dr. Bain, who administered the drug in two previous court cases after hospitals refused. “Three times we’ve shown something,” he told me. “There’s a signal of benefit for ventilator patients.”
    Ng’s remarkable progress stands in sharp relief to the repeated attempts by Edward-Elmhurst Health, the hospital’s managing system, to thwart the use of ivermectin. It succeeded in having the court’s initial November 1 order dismissed by claiming Ng was in better health than his lawsuit contended (he wasn’t). It then defied the November 5 order, saying Dr. Bain was not vaccinated (a negative test resolved the issue).

    Moreover, after Ng’s treatment was complete, the hospital system filed notice that it would appeal the order that had already been carried out. It did this even though Sun Ng seemed to have benefited greatly.
    The patient’s improvement, or condition generally, did not seem to matter.
    At the outset, the hospital argued against court intervention, saying, “Mr. Ng is not terminal at this point.” But it was forced to admit that he had for days teetered on the brink of death after Ng’s daughter and only child, Man Kwan Ng, spoke to a hospital doctor November 3—and took copious notes that were submitted to the court.
    The doctor told Dr. Ng, who holds a PhD in mechanical engineering, “He has been in the same state for many, many days…critically ill,” according to a court affidavit. A nurse, meantime, suggested that Dr. Ng “stop all this aggressive care and let [her father] die naturally.”
    The hospital doctor estimated that “someone in his condition being on a ventilator like that has a 10 or 15 percent chance of survival,” the judge recounted in his decision.
    That bleak prediction wasn’t an option for Ng’s wife of forty years or the daughter fighting on his behalf. “We love him dearly,” Dr. Ng said in court papers. “He is our world…I cannot give up on him, even if the Defendants have.”

    The judge’s finest moment may have been when he dashed the most glaring myth about ivermectin—that it is not safe, despite decades of use that shows otherwise. Noting that all drugs have side effects, Judge Fullerton listed ivermectin’s effects from a government website.
    “(N)umber one, generally well tolerated; number two, dizziness; number three, pruritus; number four, nausea/diarrhea. These are the side effects for the dosage that's being asked to be administered,” he said.
    “The risks of these side effects are so minimal that Mr. Ng’s current situation outweighs that risk by one-hundredfold.”

    Dr. Alan Bain, having been first duly sworn, deposes and says as follows:
    link to big image of document https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch..._2034x1542.png

    Dr. Alan Bain gave a supplemental affidavit testifying to his successful use of ivermectin to treat covid-19 in gravely ill patients. Judge Fullerton ordered the hospital to “step aside” and allow him to give the drug that saved Mr. Ng’s life.
    If he hadn’t yet made his position clear, the judge then addressed the statement by a hospital doctor who, the judge said, “testified that the risk is that there is no benefit.”

    On the contrary, the judge said, “The possible benefit this Court sees is helping save Mr. Ng’s life with this drug.”

    Ralph Lorigo is a Buffalo, New York, attorney who represented Ng and has received inquiries on behalf of fifty more patients since September. He said the Ng case was by far the costliest so far with three decisions, four court appearances, and now an appeal that is certainly moot.
    “That’s a terrible set of circumstances that people have to hire a lawyer to save a loved one’s life,” Lorigo told me. “That is a crime.”
    Lorigo battled another hospital in the Edward-Elmhurst Health system last spring in a similarly drawn-out case to get ivermectin for Nurije Fype, sixty-eight. Her case inspired Dr. Ng to file suit—for good reason.
    Desareda Fype, who was a fierce advocate on her mother’s behalf, texted me last week: “Mom is doing sooo good, thank God! It’s been 4.5 months. Mom is home from the hospital and getting stronger each day!”

    In an interview Sunday, Dr. Ng said her father is not out of the woods yet. But ivermectin made a clear difference, she said. Before given the medication, every attempt to wean her father even briefly from the respirator failed. Within eight hours on the medication, he was able to undergo a one-hour breathing trial. “I am positive,” she told me when I asked if she credits ivermectin.
    While Dr. Bain was well aware of ivemectin’s ability to fight the covid virus in early infection, even he was surprised to discover its late-stage effectiveness. “It quells the fire of the inflammatory storm and also helps to lower the progression of stiffened lungs—aka pulmonary fibrosis,” he said. “That’s the beauty of this drug. I’m not saying it’s a cure. It’s just amazing.”
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyLady View Post
    specifically addressing ivermectin. It's not a vaccine so I'm confused about your assertion.

    Also, not all covid vaccine use aborted fetal tissue.

    https://lozierinstitute.org/update-c...ed-cell-lines/

    But they use synthetic Spike Proteins and Graphene Oxide -- both toxic pathogens and therefore killers .And they work beautifully .

    But hey ho , a few million fewer people (could only be couple of billion if the Stupids refuse boosters ) will solve the Carbon emissions problem, even though that is in itself

    another load of spurious pseudo scientific garbage .

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    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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