Peace In Our Time?

[NightTrain]

Does anyone else look at this Ukrainian situation and see the Western world led by a bunch of Neville Chamberlain wannabes from 1939?

I realize that things aren't quite the same as then, with the advent of nuclear weapons, but the end result is the same. Utter annihilation of whole nations was always on the table.

Russia has demonstrated a woeful lack of military cohesion, strategy and execution as they try to conquer a much smaller Ukraine. As we discussed before, their lack of logistics resupplying their offensive is a show of monumental incompetence. What few trucks they have are being mauled because of their rush to reach Kyiv, bypassing cities and expecting the Ukrainians to ignore mostly undefended convoys of trucks rolling in single file up the highway to bring fuel, ammo, parts and food to the troops.

This inability to process the war led inevitably to the Russians resorting to indiscriminately shelling and bombing of whole cities, which was largely ignored in Syria and Afghanistan by the rest of the world, but is illegal and certainly constitutes war crimes.

So, as thousands of civilians are subjected to indiscriminate shelling, Zelensky is pleading for NATO to enforce a No-Fly Zone over Ukraine. This would largely level the playing field, given the impossible Russian ground resupply situation.

A few countries in Europe - Poland and a few others, were going to give Ukraine a few MiG Fighters & attack Fighters, but Biden nixed that idea because of his fear of pissing off Putin. NATO cancelled the transfer.

Anyone else remember Korea and Vietnam? Russia gave literally thousands of MiGs, along with Soviet 'advisors', combat instructors and even Soviet pilots flying MiGs against us in Korean & Vietnamese marked aircraft.

They had nukes back then. So did we. It didn't escalate to nukes flying - the only time that was discussed was MacArthur advocating for that when he was pushed out of South Korea by that Chinese led offensive. He was summarily dismissed, mostly because of his insistence of using nukes.

Anyway, there is a strong precedent for both Russia and China engaging in active air combat against NATO in at least two wars prior.

Today all of the Western leaders are wringing their hands at the thought of opposing a nuclear armed dictator in the air as he clearly commits heinous war crimes.

They are afraid of him and instead send Zelensky supplies and let what little military he has left to fight, along with largely untrained citizenry haphazardly firing off MANPADS & anti-tank missiles at a professional army - such as it is.

In my mind, we have a bunch of Neville Chamberlains running the show, led by our sad feckless idiot who historically has been on the wrong side of every scenario his entire life.

NATO needs to intervene, at the very least in the air. We could easily establish air superiority within 24 hours.

Historical precedent allows us to, and pointing that out prior initializing it would make Putin accept it.

Yes, he's got nukes. But so does the rest of the world.

Allowing this psychopath to continue his slaughter as we cower from the sidelines is madness. He won't be satisfied with Ukraine, just as Hitler wasn't with Poland.

The Baltic States are next on the menu after Ukraine is defeated.

But our spineless leaders are still clinging to the hope that he'll stop once he has Ukraine.

Peace in our time, right. Neville?

[Gunny]

Does anyone else look at this Ukrainian situation and see the Western world led by a bunch of Neville Chamberlain wannabes from 1939?

I realize that things aren't quite the same as then, with the advent of nuclear weapons, but the end result is the same. Utter annihilation of whole nations was always on the table.

Russia has demonstrated a woeful lack of military cohesion, strategy and execution as they try to conquer a much smaller Ukraine. As we discussed before, their lack of logistics resupplying their offensive is a show of monumental incompetence. What few trucks they have are being mauled because of their rush to reach Kyiv, bypassing cities and expecting the Ukrainians to ignore mostly undefended convoys of trucks rolling in single file up the highway to bring fuel, ammo, parts and food to the troops.

This inability to process the war led inevitably to the Russians resorting to indiscriminately shelling and bombing of whole cities, which was largely ignored in Syria and Afghanistan by the rest of the world, but is illegal and certainly constitutes war crimes.

So, as thousands of civilians are subjected to indiscriminate shelling, Zelensky is pleading for NATO to enforce a No-Fly Zone over Ukraine. This would largely level the playing field, given the impossible Russian ground resupply situation.

A few countries in Europe - Poland and a few others, were going to give Ukraine a few MiG Fighters & attack Fighters, but Biden nixed that idea because of his fear of pissing off Putin. NATO cancelled the transfer.

Anyone else remember Korea and Vietnam? Russia gave literally thousands of MiGs, along with Soviet 'advisors', combat instructors and even Soviet pilots flying MiGs against us in Korean & Vietnamese marked aircraft.

They had nukes back then. So did we. It didn't escalate to nukes flying - the only time that was discussed was MacArthur advocating for that when he was pushed out of South Korea by that Chinese led offensive. He was summarily dismissed, mostly because of his insistence of using nukes.

Anyway, there is a strong precedent for both Russia and China engaging in active air combat against NATO in at least two wars prior.

Today all of the Western leaders are wringing their hands at the thought of opposing a nuclear armed dictator in the air as he clearly commits heinous war crimes.

They are afraid of him and instead send Zelensky supplies and let what little military he has left to fight, along with largely untrained citizenry haphazardly firing off MANPADS & anti-tank missiles at a professional army - such as it is.

In my mind, we have a bunch of Neville Chamberlains running the show, led by our sad feckless idiot who historically has been on the wrong side of every scenario his entire life.

NATO needs to intervene, at the very least in the air. We could easily establish air superiority within 24 hours.

Historical precedent allows us to, and pointing that out prior initializing it would make Putin accept it.

Yes, he's got nukes. But so does the rest of the world.

Allowing this psychopath to continue his slaughter as we cower from the sidelines is madness. He won't be satisfied with Ukraine, just as Hitler wasn't with Poland.

The Baltic States are next on the menu after Ukraine is defeated.

But our spineless leaders are still clinging to the hope that he'll stop once he has Ukraine.

Peace in our time, right. Neville?

I clicked on this fully expecting a pic of John Kerry.

Someone needs to inform Poland this doesn't look like 1939.

[NightTrain]

I clicked on this fully expecting a pic of John Kerry.

That bloviating idiot needs to be assigned to Antarctica to study penguins. With zero comm.

[NightTrain]

Someone needs to inform Poland this doesn't look like 1939.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it looks a LOT like 1939.

I don't think Poland is on the menu due to their membership in NATO, but there's a lot of small, non-NATO countries that should be very alarmed right about now.

[Gunny]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it looks a LOT like 1939.

I don't think Poland is on the menu due to their membership in NATO, but there's a lot of small, non-NATO countries that should be very alarmed right about now.

Depends. NATO draws a line in the sand and says don't cross this line and Putin crosses it. NATO draws another line in the sand and says don't cross this line ... What's he got to fear?

I say Poland 1939 because that was the next country on Hitler's list after he signed the nonaggression agreement Chamberlain was waving around declaring "Peace in our time". Doesn't really matter which country it is. I would suspect Moldova and the Baltic States have the most to worry about.

Gen Douglas MacArthur was relieved of command not for wanting to nuke China, but for going to the media with his case after Truman said no. At that time, China did not have nukes. The Japanese and Filipinos revered MacArthur and he was an American hero. His downfall was believe the hype. he thought he was above the law because he was MacArthur. In American public opinion at the time (how times have changed) he was a serious threat to Truman.

Bottom line: it is a violation of the UCMJ to publicly question the Chain of command. It is unlawful to make a public statement without permission from proper authority. He was relieved oc command for that and because much of public opinion agreed with Truman, which was the aforementioned threat MacArthur posed.

[NightTrain]

Depends. NATO draws a line in the sand and says don't cross this line and Putin crosses it. NATO draws another line in the sand and says don't cross this line ... What's he got to fear?

I say Poland 1939 because that was the next country on Hitler's list after he signed the nonaggression agreement Chamberlain was waving around declaring "Peace in our time". Doesn't really matter which country it is. I would suspect Moldova and the Baltic States have the most to worry

Right. Draw the line now, give Putin an immediate demand to completely withdraw from Ukraine or face a full NATO enforced air superiority mission, complete with air attacks on all Russian forces until none remains in Ukraine.

I don't know what, if anything can be done about Crimea, but the BS with creating two new 'independent' nations is not accepted nor recognized.

If he's not stopped here, it will be down the road soon in another country, or the one after that. It's best to confront him now and our weak leadership has only emboldened him - not to mention China.

[NightTrain]

Agree on MacArthur... great military man, but he definitely overstepped himself.

[Kathianne]

Germany outgunned Europe in1939, as we've seen Russia doesn't in any CONVENTIONAL sense. With that said, if Putin releases 1 tactical nuke, he'll will rain down on him. IF they cause a meltdown at nuke site, not sure reaction.

Poland and another country have the Green Light to give those old planes to Ukraine. Their pilots are familiar with them. US will give/sell replacement planes for those donated.