Originally Posted by
SassyLady
That is one, seriously skewed, one-sided version of (not) history.
The Rus existed in what is now Ukraine and Belarus when what is now Russia was the land of the original Bulgars. Novgorod was the only Rus city state that existed at all during the Mongol reign. Moscow was burnt to the ground. Novgorod was spared because it was smart enough to just surrender to the Mongols, given the fact the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was on its back door with a convert or die to latin Christianity message. The Mongols didn't care who they worshipped nor how they ran their internal affairs so long as they paid up.
Ivan the Terrible invaded and subjugated Novgorod and incorporated it into Russia. Ivan was a Muscovite who were as much Mongol as anything else. The Rus are of Fin/Swede/Slavic/Norwegian origin. They are two distinct ethnicities.
On a good day (meaning before Putin picked up where Stalin left off in the ethnic cleansing and rusification of Ukraine), and argument could be made that those parts of Ukraine closest to Russia are more Russian than Ukrainian. They've had ample time to move.
How'd that work out in the US, btw, when half the country didn't want to be part of the US?
Soviet Russia recognized Ukrainian independence (such that it was) in 1923. Kruschev ceded Crimea to Ukraine in the 50s. Ukrainian independence was recognized by Russia in 1993. End of that story.
Russia doesn't get to cherry pick actual history and fact anymore than the author of this article does. While I realize the main goal is to confuse the issue, it's a lie.
As far as whatever anyone in this country thinks of Ukraine's corruptness or whatever, I'm more than willing to accept that accusation/scrutiny just as soon as our shit don't stink here. Otherwise it's pot n kettle. If Ukraine is modeled after the West/Europe/US, no doubt there's corruption at every level. That's how we roll.
They damned sure didn't learn to "fight" from the West. They haven't surrendered.
Last edited by Gunny; 10-08-2022 at 12:55 PM.
“When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke