To Jimnyc and Sertes Debate

[-Cp]

First off Sertes is a complete tool if he really believes 9/11 was an inside job. Also - if he believes that, then he's yet another reason for folks to know and understand why it's sad when cousins marry.

Secondly, Jim - all one needs to do is point him to the Popular Mechanics 9/11report which provides unshakable proof that 9/11 was in fact carried out by our enemy:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=5

Right there - end of story, no need to drag it out in the other thread...

[hjmick]

Hell, even Bill Maher thinks the 9/11 conspiracy crowd are out of touch.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ONERilOpjQ&mode=related&search=[/YOUTUBE]

If Bill won't blame Bush, well, enough said.

[JackDaniels]

My own beliefs border on loony conspiracy theories, borderline anarchism, and militant atheism, and even I think the 9/11 truthers are full of shit!

[Gaffer]

My one question to the conspiracy crowd is why would the government go to all this trouble involving thousands of people to pull off such a hoax? What would they benefit that they couldn't just do?

[mrg666]

My one question to the conspiracy crowd is why would the government go to all this trouble involving thousands of people to pull off such a hoax? What would they benefit that they couldn't just do?

statisicly the chance of getting caught out in this sort of thing far outweighs any benefits (wich are ? )

[diuretic]

Ockham's Razor tells me that 9/11 was far too complex for a government to plot and carry out. It's the sort of operation that can only be done by a small, determined group. Also it requires fanatics. A bunch of nutters might commit suicide for a god but would you commit suicide for your government?

[Sertes]

My one question to the conspiracy crowd is why would the government go to all this trouble involving thousands of people to pull off such a hoax? What would they benefit that they couldn't just do?

Invading other countries in plain defiance of UN resolutions (the Cheney doctrine)

The 'Wolfowitz doctrine' - which should really be called the 'Cheney doctrine' as it was prepared for Cheney, and Wolfowitz was merely the technician, the Eichmann if you will, who prepared the documents - is described as follows:

"As the New York Times explained it, the Wolfowitz Doctrine argues that America's political and military mission should be to 'ensure that no rival superpower is allowed to emerge. With its focus on this concept of benevolent domination by one power, the Pentagon document articulates the clearest rejection to date of collective internationalism.' Its core thesis, described by Ben Wattenberg in the April 12, Washington Times, is 'to guard against the emergence of hostile regional superpowers, for example, Iraq or China. America is No. 1. We stand for something decent and important. That's good for us and good for the world. That's the way we want to keep it.'"

The doctrine arose out of the post-Cold War giddiness that fell over Washington in the early 1990's, when it appeared that all obstacles to a New American Empire had suddenly fallen away. When it leaked out, it caused such a stir in Washington that Bush Senior had it buried away, and Cheney had to wait to the end of the Clinton interregnum to bring it back to life under Bush Senior's stupid son. The key to American rule of the world is a huge series of military bases encircling Russia and China, and providing American control over strategic assets, most notably oil. The Bush Administration economic plan, such as it is, seems to consist entirely of blackmailing the rest of the world into continuing to support the unsupportable American indebtedness by threatening to withhold access to oil. To that end, the series of bases (part of 'Baseworld') being built in Iraq is an absolutely necessary part of the Cheney plan. These multi-billion dollar bases - which aren't exactly a secret but are being covered up by the disgusting American media in its normal way, i. e., it simply doesn't mention them - are required to create effective American ownership of all Middle Eastern oil fields. They are the only tangible asset obtained from spending hundreds of billions of dollars on the Iraq debacle. The United States will not give them up.


And therein lies the rub. The rest of the world, through the UN, isn't going to be keen to bail the Americans out from the results of their neo-colonial folly and their blatant breach of international law. However, to save the people of Iraq from the violence of the continued American occupation, and to stop an Iraqi civil war, it might be possible to work something out. The American concession would have to be the total withdrawal of Americans from Iraq, as the world would hardly allow the bases, the main weapon of American blackmail through control of the oil fields, to remain. Since the Americans won't agree to that kind of withdrawal, UN rescue of the United States is impossible. When Condi Rice says the American commitment to Iraq is generational, she ain't kidding. The long-term effects of Cheney's mad ideas for world domination will result in the decline of American power, as the over-extension of the American Empire becomes more and more economically and politically expensive.

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/06...-and-iraq.html

[Sir Evil]

Invading other countries in plain defiance of UN resolutions (the Cheney doctrine)



http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/06...-and-iraq.html

what a tool...

[Sertes]

Ockham's Razor tells me that 9/11 was far too complex for a government to plot and carry out. It's the sort of operation that can only be done by a small, determined group. Also it requires fanatics. A bunch of nutters might commit suicide for a god but would you commit suicide for your government?

No one is claiming the US gov did it.
The claim is some elements from the top of the US governative, military, and media complex did it.
That includes Planning, Executing and Covering it up.

[Sir Evil]

No one is claiming the US gov did it.
The claim is some elements from the top of the US governative, military, and media complex did it.
That includes Planning, Executing and Covering it up.

Could we get some more of this solid evidence you provide perhaps on something like the roswell incident? I understand they are currently renting apartments in area 51 if interested.

[Gaffer]

Invading other countries in plain defiance of UN resolutions (the Cheney doctrine)



http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/06...-and-iraq.html

The WTC attack was not necessary to go into iraq. iraq would have been invaded without the WTC attack. In fact WTC probably delayed plans to deal with saddam sooner than we did.

[Sertes]

Could we get some more of this solid evidence you provide perhaps on something like the roswell incident? I understand they are currently renting apartments in area 51 if interested.

I just posted the recap here http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...2&postcount=20

And no, I won't insult you back.

[Gaffer]

No one is claiming the US gov did it.
The claim is some elements from the top of the US governative, military, and media complex did it.
That includes Planning, Executing and Covering it up.

The mission impossible team....right. Pulling off something like this would have taken the cooperation of thousands. There's no way it could be done.

[Sir Evil]

I just posted the recap here http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost...2&postcount=20

And no, I won't insult you back.

Sorry Sertes, could help myself on that one but just can't buy into conspiracy theories.

[Sertes]

Sorry Sertes, could help myself on that one but just can't buy into conspiracy theories.

Too bad, because even the governative version is a conspiracy theory, it's only the official one. That is, Osama Bin Laden conspirated and planned with aides, then 19 hijackers were sent to hit the U.S. for the execution of the plan.

You too are welcome to tell me where was Dick Cheney on 9/11/2001 at 9:30

One simple question, that even Jimnyc wasn't able to answer and had to dodge