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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    not going to reply point for point here but here's one reply
    I now more understand the pointlessness of this. No rebuttal is too good. If the government says something it's not to be believed. Initial "experts" are discounted in lieu of a few new "experts." There's an industry in fomenting disbelief and it takes minimal investment to keep it rolling. It's this. It's Russian collusion. It's last year's Twitter barrage. It's this year's X barrage. It's cats and dogs being eaten in Springfield. It's the vaccine is going to kill us all. There's an industry in all of it. I can't compete with your information barrage because it will keep coming. Official sources report and move on but the other side does not stop.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    I now more understand the pointlessness of this. No rebuttal is too good. If the government says something it's not to be believed. Initial "experts" are discounted in lieu of a few new "experts." There's an industry in fomenting disbelief and it takes minimal investment to keep it rolling. It's this. It's Russian collusion. It's last year's Twitter barrage. It's this year's X barrage. It's cats and dogs being eaten in Springfield. It's the vaccine is going to kill us all. There's an industry in all of it. I can't compete with your information barrage because it will keep coming. Official sources report and move on but the other side does not stop.

    Fj, it's not a matter of expert v expert, it's a matter of evidence v evidence.

    Look I reluctantly replied to 1 point with valid counter evidence.
    Are we just supposed to BELIEVE all the assertions NIST made without question? And move on.
    NIST said their experts
    "found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse."
    Other experts I posted simply point out that they DID find evidence and they say where and talk about witnesses.

    It's my understanding that this is how you do an investigation.
    If you don't want to deal with the evidence available say so, but son't pretend I'm just making blind contentless denials for no reason.

    Do you want me to address everyone one of the point you posted 1 by one, with any evidence that paints a larger or different picture?
    For this 1 point NIST DID NOT SEE the evidence... for some reason.
    Maybe they saw everything else correctly, should we take their expert word for it, after we've seen that they MISSED at least this one point?

    If you want to give them 100% benny of the doubt fine.
    That's your right.
    But Yes, I'm generally more skeptical of Gov't and Big Corporations pronouncements. Sue me.



    BTW
    Official sources reported Russian collusion
    Official sources said the lab leak was BS
    Official sources said if you get the vaccines you wont get or pass covid on.
    If they had not been under continued questioning we'd still be living under those lies.

    Official sources also say you should get your booster and you still havn't gotten yours have you?
    Why dont you just get it and MOVE ON? Or is it that "If the government says something it's not to be believed?"

    Look just because you dont like the MY degree of questions don't pretend that it's wrong by default.
    That's just ANOTHER way to backhandedly dismiss information you don't want to consider credible.
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-04-2025 at 09:01 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    Fj, it's not a matter of expert v expert, it's a matter of evidence v evidence.

    Look I reluctantly replied to 1 point with valid counter evidence.
    Are we just supposed to BELIEVE all the assertions NIST made without question? And move on.
    NIST said their experts
    "found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse."
    Other experts I posted simply point out that they DID find evidence and they say where and talk about witnesses.

    It's my understanding that this is how you do an investigation.
    If you don't want to deal with the evidence available say so, but son't pretend I'm just making blind contentless denials for no reason.

    Do you want me to address everyone one of the point you posted 1 by one, with any evidence that paints a larger or different picture?
    For this 1 point NIST DID NOT SEE the evidence... for some reason.
    Maybe they saw everything else correctly, should we take their expert word for it, after we've seen that they MISSED at least this one point?

    If you want to give them 100% benny of the doubt fine.
    That's your right.
    But Yes, I'm generally more skeptical of Gov't and Big Corporations pronouncements. Sue me.



    BTW
    Official sources reported Russian collusion
    Official sources said the lab leak was BS
    Official sources said if you get the vaccines you wont get or pass covid on.
    If they had not been under continued questioning we'd still be living under those lies.

    Official sources also say you should get your booster and you still havn't gotten yours have you?
    Why dont you just get it and MOVE ON? Or is it that "If the government says something it's not to be believed?"

    Look just because you dont like the MY degree of questions don't pretend that it's wrong by default.
    That's just ANOTHER way to backhandedly dismiss information you don't want to consider credible.
    Yup, you rebutted one thing about molten steel when they said molten steel didn't take down the towers because it didn't take molten steel to take down the towers because it only took softened steel to take down the towers so now you get into molten this or not molten that and thermite this and not thermite that and it never ends because the industry and its acolytes don't let it end.

    And that's the real debate here in my opinion and I don't have the bandwidth to go down every rabbit hole of all those "but whatabouts..." And yeah, I'm backhandedly dismissing information because I don't consider it credible. I've looked in some of those rabbit holes and I know where they go because the circles are there. You don't like my high horse do you? You don't because it's the same high horse you're on and your self-appointed air of I look at all the evidence because I don't just buy the government's line yada yada yada... It gets rather insufferable at times.

    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  5. #49
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    Steel loses its integrity at a much lower temperature than its melting point

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  7. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Yup, you rebutted one thing about molten steel when they said molten steel didn't take down the towers because it didn't take molten steel to take down the towers because it only took softened steel to take down the towers so now you get into molten this or not molten that and thermite this and not thermite that and it never ends because the industry and its acolytes don't let it end...
    never end?
    the NIST report is over 10,000 pages. that's a never ending report.
    But ok how many of those pages is anyone allowed to question FJ?
    Is it allowed at all in your mind? Can someone make an overall set of points that demonstrates an alternative?
    Even if YOU dont think it's credible... even-though you'll never look at much of it? & will assume the worse of it? Calling it rabbit holes & other crap because you think you know better already?
    That's insufferable FJ.

    Especially after you post 4 websites worth of links you LIKE and then 6 points/paragraphs worth of information that ONLY addresses one side of the POV. As if all debate has been settled.
    But look, Fj , If it has been settled for you, cool.
    Just be honest and say 'based on what i've looked at at this point MY OPINION IS...XYZ about 911'.
    Rather than acting as if others are out of line for having a different POV in general.
    If you dont want to DEBATE the evidence, or think it's more details than you want to deal with, thats fine.
    But dont think you can post any BS smokescreen replies when evidence is presented and think I'm going to just let it slide.

    MY opinion based on the evidence I've seen is that there's A LOT of Merit to criticism of the official story.
    And that various alternative accounts fit the evidence better.

    We can agree to disagree, I've got no hard feelings and no need to question your character, motives, inner life, sources, bandwidth, or the horse you ride on.

    But if you want to post evidence for your preferred POV, dont be shocked or frustrated that someone post info that contradicts what you've posted on a site name DEBATE POLICY.
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-05-2025 at 12:21 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  8. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Steel loses its integrity at a much lower temperature than its melting point
    that's a rabbit hole of details to open up.

    But it's my understanding that in general, it weakens & sags but it doesn't snap or collapse from the heat of office fires.
    + most of the jet fuel burned up during the explosions on impact.
    In one of the videos a former engineer from UL talks about the testing for the columns for the TwinTowers. That the steel had passed and exceeded code in heat testing.

    Also No other steel frame office buildings in the world have collapse from fires before or since. And some burned longer & hotter.
    Also Building 7 was never hit by a plane so there's not even the possibility of jet fuel only office fires there.
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-05-2025 at 12:25 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  9. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    never end?
    the NIST report is over 10,000 pages. that's a never ending report.
    But ok how many of those pages is anyone allowed to question FJ?
    Is it allowed at all in your mind? Can someone make an overall set of points that demonstrates an alternative?
    Even if YOU dont think it's credible... even-though you'll never look at much of it? & will assume the worse of it? Calling it rabbit holes & other crap because you think you know better already?
    That's insufferable FJ.

    Especially after you post 4 websites worth of links you LIKE and then 6 points/paragraphs worth of information that ONLY addresses one side of the POV. As if all debate has been settled.
    But look, Fj , If it has been settled for you, cool.
    Just be honest and say 'based on what i've looked at at this point MY OPINION IS...XYZ about 911'.
    Rather than acting as if others are out of line for having a different POV in general.
    If you dont want to DEBATE the evidence, or think it's more details than you want to deal with, thats fine.
    But dont think you can post any BS smokescreen replies when evidence is presented and think I'm going to just let it slide.

    MY opinion based on the evidence I've seen is that there's A LOT of Merit to criticism of the official story.
    And that various alternative accounts fit the evidence better.

    We can agree to disagree, I've got no hard feelings and no need to question your character, motives, inner life, sources, bandwidth, or the horse you ride on.

    But if you want to post evidence for your preferred POV, dont be shocked or frustrated that someone post info that contradicts what you've posted on a site name DEBATE POLICY.
    The attitude is insufferable. You're the only one who looks at other sites and you're the only one who ties it all together. You don't know what I look and you constantly pass judgement.

    Whatever... It takes much more belief in the fantastical to go with the truther argument than the official story.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  10. #53
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    A question for the Conspiracy Industrial Complex: So the alternate theory is the US government piggybacked on a terror plot by AQ to fly planes into the WTC and placed demolition explosives to take down WTC 1, 2, & 7 which was used as a pretext for the WOT?Iraq invasion? And that much of the argument relies on the assumption that because no fire has ever taken down a skyscraper, allegedly, even though WTC 1 & 2 were structurally damaged when a plane flew into them and WTC 7 had a 100 story skyscraper fall on or near it?

    Follow up: Bush planned it in his 8 months? or the CIA was planning it since 1993? Clinton was in the know? Nobody who set the explosives at WTC has talked? Why take down WTC 7?

    Curious minds...
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  11. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    Though I am curious as to the rationale of the operation, the logistics involved, the people involved, what all needs to occur with exacting timing, the outcome expected, the outcome desired... so many questions with likely unspecific answers which I'm sure will be chalked to up to not wanting to see.
    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    A question for the Conspiracy Industrial Complex: So the alternate theory is the US government piggybacked on a terror plot by AQ to fly planes into the WTC and placed demolition explosives to take down WTC 1, 2, & 7 which was used as a pretext for the WOT?Iraq invasion? And that much of the argument relies on the assumption that because no fire has ever taken down a skyscraper, allegedly, even though WTC 1 & 2 were structurally damaged when a plane flew into them and WTC 7 had a 100 story skyscraper fall on or near it?

    Follow up: Bush planned it in his 8 months? or the CIA was planning it since 1993? Clinton was in the know? Nobody who set the explosives at WTC has talked? Why take down WTC 7?

    Curious minds...

    I might be inclined to reply but last time you told me:
    "The attitude is insufferable. You're the only one who looks at other sites and you're the only one who ties it all together. You don't know what I look and you constantly pass judgement.
    Whatever... It takes much more belief in the fantastical to go with the truther argument than the official story."

    So, for some reason, I don't think your statement/questions are rooted in sincere curiosity. At least not curious enough to get a reply from insufferable, judgement passing Revelarts.
    Plenty of books & websites out there, a few linked here, if you're truly curious.
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-29-2025 at 03:18 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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  13. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    I might be inclined to reply but last time you told me:
    "The attitude is insufferable. You're the only one who looks at other sites and you're the only one who ties it all together. You don't know what I look and you constantly pass judgement.
    Whatever... It takes much more belief in the fantastical to go with the truther argument than the official story."

    So, for some reason, I don't think your statement/questions are rooted in sincere curiosity.
    Plenty of books & websites out there, a few linked here, if you're truly curious.
    And it was. But I'm not interested in this link and that link and this hour long video/podcast and that hour long video/podcast. I'm also not interested in this evidence vs that evidence because that is a never ending rabbit hole.

    I'm interested in the alternate theory and the logical questions that arise from that.
    "when socialism fails, blame capitalism and demand more socialism." - A friend
    "You know the difference between libs and right-wingers? Libs STFU when evidence refutes their false beliefs." - Another friend
    “Don't waste your time with explanations: people only hear what they want to hear.” - Paulo Coelho


  14. #56
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    If what we were told was a farce, and that no building would ever go down as the WTC towers did, and that only explosives could do so, and all the other things (of which I've seen nearly everything debunked in over 20 years).... I ask - did we not see 2 airplanes strike these towers? Do we not have complete evidence of hijackings and crashes? Is the government behind these as well? Have we been lied to about the hijackings or the crashes?

    The only thing I ever see being questioned is the buildings falling and why. Are we to believe that islamic fanatics did indeed hijack airplanes. That indeed their plans were suicidal and to hit various targets. That they achieved these goals. -- but that this is where the terror attacks stopped - and the damage inflicted was controlled somehow by the government? How did the government, or whomever, know when to take down the buildings? Was it a mere coincidence that the government was there to take down the buildings at the identical time terrorists hit the buildings with airplanes?

    And the buildings were brought down to send us into war? The hijackings and deaths of all on board the involved airplanes was enough on it's own IMO. Then hitting and the massive damage to the 3 towers & Pentagon would have been more than enough. But someone somehow was prepared and waiting, and took down the towers by control somehow, but after airplanes have hit them already?

    There has been more than enough evidence shown to explain why the towers collapsed. More than enough evidence to show who planned and carried out the attacks. I don't think there were any nefarious characters or actions involved, other than the actions of 19 terrorists that day.
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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  16. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fj1200 View Post
    And it was. But I'm not interested in this link and that link and this hour long video/podcast and that hour long video/podcast. I'm also not interested in this evidence vs that evidence because that is a never ending rabbit hole.

    I'm interested in the alternate theory and the logical questions that arise from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    If what we were told was a farce, and that no building would ever go down as the WTC towers did, and that only explosives could do so, and all the other things (of which I've seen nearly everything debunked in over 20 years).... I ask - did we not see 2 airplanes strike these towers? Do we not have complete evidence of hijackings and crashes? Is the government behind these as well? Have we been lied to about the hijackings or the crashes?

    The only thing I ever see being questioned is the buildings falling and why. Are we to believe that islamic fanatics did indeed hijack airplanes. That indeed their plans were suicidal and to hit various targets. That they achieved these goals. -- but that this is where the terror attacks stopped - and the damage inflicted was controlled somehow by the government? How did the government, or whomever, know when to take down the buildings? Was it a mere coincidence that the government was there to take down the buildings at the identical time terrorists hit the buildings with airplanes?

    And the buildings were brought down to send us into war? The hijackings and deaths of all on board the involved airplanes was enough on it's own IMO. Then hitting and the massive damage to the 3 towers & Pentagon would have been more than enough. But someone somehow was prepared and waiting, and took down the towers by control somehow, but after airplanes have hit them already?

    There has been more than enough evidence shown to explain why the towers collapsed. More than enough evidence to show who planned and carried out the attacks. I don't think there were any nefarious characters or actions involved, other than the actions of 19 terrorists that day.
    I started the thread with the post below.
    the 2700 vets want a new investigation to get some the questions you ask answered.
    I suspect some of the info you're looking for is at the site.

    But concerning evidence,
    Jim, I've seen the debunks Debunked.
    FJ, If you're "not interested in this evidence vs that evidence".
    Then there's nothing to talk about.



    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    https://www.ae911truth.org/news/790-...-investigation
    Twenty years after 9/11, more than 2,700 U.S. veterans call for a new investigation
    ...Those of us who have served in our country’s military forces have a unique perspective on the events of 9/11. We know beyond the shadow of a doubt that the attacks on New York City and the Pentagon led directly to war and to the killing and maiming of our comrades-in-arms as well as millions of others in the Middle East. The chaos unleashed by this tragedy has reached into the lives of almost every one on the planet in the years that have gone by since the fateful day that divided history into before 9/11 and after 9/11. This knowledge weighs heavily on our conscience and requires us to act upon what we understand to be the truth of what lay at the cause of that war, which continues to this day.

    Based on the forensic evidence amassed by AE911Truth and others in the 9/11 Truth movement, the military veterans who have signed our petition are convinced that the true cause of the collapse of the three WTC skyscrapers was not the fires fed by jet fuel or office furnishings but, rather, planted explosives and incendiaries. Indeed, the evidence for controlled demolition is so convincing that we veterans are compelled to join together to seek the full truth of how those demolitions were carried out — no matter where that truth might lead us.

    In return for our sacrifice, we are demanding an accounting from our government. We swore to defend our Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and we will not foreswear that commitment. Our government owes us the truth, and we will not surrender our right to that truth, no matter what the consequences. To do any less would be a betrayal of our duty....
    ...Every branch of our military — the U.S. Army, the U.S. Navy, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Marines, the U.S. Coast Guard — and hundreds of military occupations are represented by our petition signers. They have served in every conflict from World War II to the present day.
    Here are the words of just a few of our courageous signatories:

    “Tower 1 and tower 2 were professionally demolished. . . . Building 7 was, without contest, a controlled demolition. . . . Material evidence from 9/11 should not have been destroyed. . . . Any emergency response plan following a suspected terrorist attack must take into account evidence storage. . . . I am mystified why . . . this was not done.”
    — Kevin Bourgault, background in military explosives in Somalia and in training at the U.S. Military Academy, West Point

    “The event has been used to justify . . . the gutting of Constitutional rights in America.”
    — Peter Brand, former firing officer, Naval Weapons Laboratory, Virginia

    “We need to fully investigate. In the words of Gen. George S. Patton, ‘Do not take counsel of your fears.’”
    — Robert Eloi, U.S. Corps of Engineers (Ret.)

    “Those responsible will be held accountable for their actions.”
    — Derek Evans, Operation Iraqi Freedom II veteran

    “With every possible question . . . the gaping holes in the official story that was fed to the public by NIST become dreadfully clear. . . . A new investigation must be conducted in the face of such overwhelming evidence of controlled demolition.”
    — John Keidel, U.S. Army 13F-Fire Support Specialist (1999–2003), deployed to Iraq in 2003

    “The visual evidence of the center core columns leaves no doubt those were shear charges that brought the buildings down.”
    — Robert Kepka, 84-year-old WWII veteran (at the time of signing the petition)

    “How is it possible that a plane could destroy one of the world’s largest buildings, ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE GROUND? That defies physics.”
    — Neil Lattz, post-9/11 Iraq War veteran

    “The real conspiracy theory is that the laws of physics ceased to exist in New York City on September 11, 2001.”
    — Lt. William Lawler (Ret.), 12-year veteran of the Military Intelligence Corps

    “As an attorney, trained to gather and evaluate evidence, I know the official 9/11 government reports are impossible to believe.”
    — Robert Orr, U.S. Navy F-4 Phantom fighter pilot (1964–1970)

    “As a citizen of the United States, I demand that the government which I pay taxes to reopen a professional investigation of the events on 9/11/01.”
    — Cameron Smith, U.S. Army, Iraqi Freedom

    “I join with many, many others who do not believe the obviously flawed 9/11 Commission Report in DEMANDING an independent, non-government investigation, with subpoena power, into the events and causes of the 9-11-01 disaster.”
    — James Uhl, Col. (Ret.), U.S. Army, served in Viet Nam, Desert Storm, and Iraq
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-29-2025 at 03:51 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  17. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    I started the thread with the post below.
    the 27000 vets want a new investigation to get some the questions you ask answered.
    I suspect some of the info you're looking for is at the site.

    But concerning evidence,
    Jim, I've seen the debunks Debunked.
    FJ, If you're "not interested in this evidence vs that evidence".
    Then there's nothing to talk about.
    It's nothing personal against you Rev! I guess I just wore myself out debating this one over the years, and it's a subject deserving of it. But after awhile I have so much information in my head but little recollection of where it all came from. So a lot of it blurs together for me now. But that's to be expected if you have posted on the subject like you and I have over the years. But what I do know - is that I really haven't seen anything "new" to change my opinion gained over time. I am just one guy who believes the entire pancaking theory, along with the deficiencies within the way the buildings were designed. Add in over 6,000 gallons of jet fuel, let it simmer for 30-60 minutes, and it easily broke away the bolts holding things together for the most part. Then multiply the force of each floor as they pancaked.

    But that's just my own formed opinion. And I know myself well, so I know the value of that opinion is about $.06 cents. And you read it for free!!
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnyc View Post
    It's nothing personal against you Rev! I guess I just wore myself out debating this one over the years, and it's a subject deserving of it. But after awhile I have so much information in my head but little recollection of where it all came from. So a lot of it blurs together for me now. But that's to be expected if you have posted on the subject like you and I have over the years. But what I do know - is that I really haven't seen anything "new" to change my opinion gained over time. I am just one guy who believes the entire pancaking theory, along with the deficiencies within the way the buildings were designed. Add in over 6,000 gallons of jet fuel, let it simmer for 30-60 minutes, and it easily broke away the bolts holding things together for the most part. Then multiply the force of each floor as they pancaked.

    But that's just my own formed opinion. And I know myself well, so I know the value of that opinion is about $.06 cents. And you read it for free!!
    No offense taken Jim.

    I will say this, that the even the final official report rejected it's own initial "pancake theory" and replaced it with something else. Something that many engineers still questioned. And about 4 years ago a university engineering dept tried to recreate/simulate the collapse based on the details of official report and could not make the buildings fall as seen.
    So there's that.
    Beyond that opinions rule the day.
    Stuff like that is why the vets, engineers & architects want a new investigation.
    Last edited by revelarts; 01-29-2025 at 04:56 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    No offense taken Jim.

    I will say this, that the even the final official report rejected it's own initial "pancake theory" and replaced it with something else. Something that many engineers still questioned. And about 4 years ago a university engineering dept tried to recreate/simulate the collapse based on the details of official report and could not make the buildings fall as seen.
    So there's that.
    Beyond that opinions rule the day.
    Stuff like that is why the vets, engineers & architects want a new investigation.
    What about the report from Purdue, the report and animation showing the failures of the bolts and tresses and explaining the weakening of the metal alone could cause it to collapse? And did the university you speak of, I wonder if their simulation include the bad engineering in the tower, with lack of proper fire retardant and all the other things that contributed to the failure.

    I think even architects and engineers are more or less just like you and I. Most have no intimate knowledge from on the ground, but such a massive failure and collapse leave many simply questioning what the hell happened, and many simply disagree with whatever reports they may have read. IMO, whatever questions remain, if unanswered, may never be answered to satisfaction. Sometimes every detail can't be explained to satisfaction. I personally think more was answered satisfactorily and little left me wondering. And to date I have never seen any evidence at all to even think that perhaps something else happened. None, in my opinion. But then we're back to that $.06 cents again
    “You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to war, and the three most powerful men in America are named "Bush", "Dick", and "Colin." Need I say more?” - Chris Rock

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