Ukraine war: The Russian ships accused of North Sea sabotage

[Gunny]

Amazing. Russia is at war with the West and the West is sitting on its hands. The US most of all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687

[revelarts]

Gunny,
Question for ya.
Who do you think blew up the northstream pipeline?

[Gunny]

Gunny,
Question for ya.
Who do you think blew up the northstream pipeline?

I don't know, nor do I pretend to.

[revelarts]

Here's what President Biden said.

President Biden:
"If Russia invades ...Ukraine...
then there will be NO LONGER a NorthStream2.
WE will bring and END to it."

Reporter:
But how will you do that... exactly...?

President Biden:
"I Promise you we will be able to do that."


http://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM


Act of War?
Russia sit on their hands?
Germany sit on their hands?

[Gunny]

Here's what President Biden said.

President Biden:
"If Russia invades ...Ukraine...
then there will be NO LONGER a NorthStream2.
WE will bring and END to it."

Reporter:
But how will you do that... exactly...?

President Biden:
"I Promise you we will be able to do that."


http://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM


Act of War?
Russia sit on their hands?
Germany sit on their hands?

That says nothing. The US is infamous for using bullying politics to get its way. Biden and Trump especially have been rather infamous for talking stupid shit and making threats by innuendo. Everything Trump says is prefaced by "really, REALLY ...." Obviously, its destruction would not really benefit Russia but would benefit the goals of Ukraine and other Eastern European nations.

Russia had already invaded Ukraine when the pipeline was sabotaged. As an act of war, I wouldn't blame Ukraine one bit for doing it. Guess you'd have to be able to at least imagine fighting for your very existence to get it.

[revelarts]

That says nothing. The USis infamous for using bullying politics to get its way. Biden and Trump especially have been rather infamous for talking stupid shit and making threats by innuendo. Everything Trump says is prefaced by "really, REALLY ...." Obviously, its destruction would not really benefit Russia but would benefit the goals of Ukraine and other Eastern European nations.

Russia had already invaded Ukraine when the pipeline was sabotaged. As an act of war, I wouldn't blame Ukraine one bit for doing it. Guess you'd have to be able to at least imagine fighting for your very existence to get it.

Gunny 'cmon man.

If the president of the U.S. says
"We will End it"
and it happens it doesn't help to to pretend anyone else did it.


Add to that that it just wasn't Biden. Other officials and neo-cons have talked about getting rid of that pipeline for a longtime.
(for freedom!)

Dept of state spokesmen Ned Price said "Nord Stream 2 will not move forward"
Dept of State Under Secretary Vitoria Nuland said "One way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward
Mike Pompeo said "the U.S. will do everything to stop the Nord Stream 2 project."
Tom Cotton Repuplican Congressmen "If the president wishes to take the reins of international leadership, this is his opportunity. Kill Nord Stream 2 now, and let it rust beneath the waves of the Baltic."
MArcy Kaptur Congresswoman "put an end to it"
Adam Kinzinger Congressmen "end it once and for all"
Ted Cruz "Use all the tools available"
Marsha Blackburn Congresswoman "stop nord strem 2"
Former U.S. Ukrainian ambassador "taking out Nord Stream 2 to forever"

Jake Sullivan U.S. National security advisor"we have made it clear to the Russians that that pipeline is at risk if they move further into Ukraine



President Biden
“When it come to Nord Stream 2, a pipeline that will bring natural gas to Germany , It will not happen”

[Gunny]

Gunny 'cmon man.

If the president of the U.S. says
"We will End it"
and it happens it doesn't help to to pretend anyone else did it.


Add to that that it just wasn't Biden. Other officials and neo-cons have talked about getting rid of that pipeline for a longtime.
(for freedom!)

Dept of state spokesmen Ned Price said "Nord Stream 2 will not move forward"
Dept of State Under Secretary Vitoria Nuland said "One way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward
Mike Pompeo said "the U.S. will do everything to stop the Nord Stream 2 project."
Tom Cotton Repuplican Congressmen "If the president wishes to take the reins of international leadership, this is his opportunity. Kill Nord Stream 2 now, and let it rust beneath the waves of the Baltic."
MArcy Kaptur Congresswoman "put an end to it"
Adam Kinzinger Congressmen "end it once and for all"
Ted Cruz "Use all the tools available"
Marsha Blackburn Congresswoman "stop nord strem 2"
Former U.S. Ukrainian ambassador "taking out Nord Stream 2 to forever"

Jake Sullivan U.S. National security advisor"we have made it clear to the Russians that that pipeline is at risk if they move further into Ukraine



President Biden
“When it come to Nord Stream 2, a pipeline that will bring natural gas to Germany , It will not happen”

Nothing you posted is evidence of anything except a lot of politicians were against it. As a stand alone, the pipeline was stupid and Russia's invasion of Ukraine proved just how stupid it was for all those European countries to make themselves dependent on Russian oil. The only thing dumber would be making one's self dependent on US oil with our revolving door foreign affairs policies.

I wouldn't be surprised that any former Soviet slave nation did it. May not be to their energy benefit, but it is their security.

And how about Germany? The ardent, pro-pipeline fans? Blowing up the pipeline ends a heated political position and discussion for Germany and makes the decision for a bunch of weak-kneed limp wrist politicians.

[revelarts]

Amazing. Russia is at war with the West and the West is sitting on its hands. The US most of all.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687

So a bunch of U.S. politicians , including the C&C SAID they would/will END the Nord Stream Pipeline ("trust me") (and it does get blown up) but you don't believe them.
That's just talk.

But you believe Russia, who never said they'd "sabotage wind farms and communication cables in the North Sea", DID DO that... "according to new allegations."
And the U.S. is sitting on it's hands by not retaliating?

Just so i understanding you here.

[Gunny]

So a bunch of U.S. politicians , including the C&C SAID they would/will END the Nord Stream Pipeline ("trust me") (and it does get blown up) but you don't believe them.
That's just talk.

But you believe Russia, who never said they'd "sabotage wind farms and communication cables in the North Sea", DID DO that... "according to new allegations."
And the U.S. is sitting on it's hands by not retaliating?

Just so i understanding you here.

I still see no evidence beyond your assumption that the US had anything more to do with it than spewing political rhetoric.

What you don't understand is that I don't default assume the US guilty at every turn.

Again, there is no evidence to accuse any specific party or it would have been done. Guessing with no supporting evidence as you are? I would guess that any country in Eastern Europe that rightfully fears Russian aggression could have done it. Finland, Sweden, Latvia, Estonia, Poland -- all share borders with Russia.

Germany, on the other hand, is as wishy washy as the US. As a tactical and strategic action, it makes perfect sense to remove an option for some weak link to flip flop as soon as it gets cold. So long as the pipeline exists and is operational, it is a threat to the unity of NATO.

They already have a couple Eastern European countries (Hungary is one) refusing to embargo Russian oil and gas. I'd blow their shit up too.

As it stands, it's rather irrelevant at this point what with Biden talking all his shit to Saudi Arabia and India believing its above it all, as usual. They're buying Russian oil and reselling it in Europe.

This is a stupid war. Not for the reasons you believe. For the simple fact that all involved think they can conduct a war without inconveniencing themselves. Only Ukraine and a few of the aforementioned Eastern European border countries are in this for real. It's a f-ing video game to the rest of these jerk offs.

[revelarts]

"Security Council Rejects Draft Resolution Establishing Commission to Investigate Sabotage of Nord Stream Pipeline"

the headline could more honestly read,
the US, UK and their toady nations of the west voted against Investigating the Sabotage of Nord Stream Pipeline.
Only Russian and China voted for an investigation.

Why wouldn't the US & UK want an investigation into this criminal terrorist act of sabotagee in sovereign waters against NATO allies?
What possible reason might there be?

claims of ,"Most of the Security Council members who abstained on Monday said they did so because the national investigations should be allowed to conclude before considering whether any action at the United Nations was needed."
Sounds kinda thin to me when the UN is always sending in investigators everywhere else in the world.
You know like the investigation that showed that Syria did NOT use gas on it's own people... after the investigators full reports and confessions were allowed to surface that is.

https://apnews.com/article/politics-...f9d18dc5561626
https://theintercept.com/2023/03/25/...seymour-hersh/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ry-2023-03-27/




(Kinda Like the US Govt still refuses to release the JFK assassination information 60+ years after -cough-someone-cough- assassinated our own President.
...And had to be forced to investigate the attacks of 9/11 and then limited it, kept certain testimony secret, no one was fired & NYers were told 'the air is safe to breath'.)

[Gunny]

"Security Council Rejects Draft Resolution Establishing Commission to Investigate Sabotage of Nord Stream Pipeline"

the headline could more honestly read,
the US, UK and their toady nations of the west voted against Investigating the Sabotage of Nord Stream Pipeline.
Only Russian and China voted for an investigation.

Why wouldn't the US & UK want an investigation into this criminal terrorist act of sabotagee in sovereign waters against NATO allies?
What possible reason might there be?

claims of ,"Most of the Security Council members who abstained on Monday said they did so because the national investigations should be allowed to conclude before considering whether any action at the United Nations was needed."
Sounds kinda thin to me when the UN is always sending in investigators everywhere else in the world.
You know like the investigation that showed that Syria did NOT use gas on it's own people... after the investigators full reports and confessions were allowed to surface that is.

https://apnews.com/article/politics-...f9d18dc5561626
https://theintercept.com/2023/03/25/...seymour-hersh/
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ry-2023-03-27/




(Kinda Like the US Govt still refuses to release the JFK assassination information 60+ years after -cough-someone-cough- assassinated our own President.
...And had to be forced to investigate the attacks of 9/11 and then limited it, kept certain testimony secret, no one was fired & NYers were told 'the air is safe to breath'.)

I'm missing something here. What point are you trying to make?

One, using the UN as some sort of justification is desperation indeed. They UN is a bunch of do-nothing "diplomats" who couldn't agree to save themselves instead of political posturing. A UN investigation is about the one thing I think would be even more of a farce to accomplish nothing than a House investigation. The fact that Russia and China, our enemies, are for it says as much as anything else. Both are for naked aggression in grabbing territory from others and don't care who they have to kill to get what they want. Not sure I'd use any of the aforementioned as references in any argument regarding right and wrong.

Two, I have already stated it was perfectly sound strategic move on the part of Ukraine or anyone supporting Ukraine and opposing Russia. The last being noteworthy of mention since this whole support for Ukraine is as much or more about opposing Russia as it is helping anyone. From that POV, I don't care who did it and applaud whoever did.

The fact that we don't know who did ought to tell you the US didn't. The running joke for years that no one in the US can keep a secret has come to light lately as far more than any joke.

[revelarts]

nothing to see here.. move along

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...96#post1005396

[Gunny]

nothing to see here.. move along

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthre...96#post1005396

Still not getting what point you are trying to make. Ukraine is at war with Russia. It is in Ukraine's best interest the pipeline was destroyed the way Germany was initially vacillating on the Russian energy. Makes perfect sense. Ukraine needed Germany and whoever else off the fence.

Pales by comparison to Russia's unprovoked military invasion of another country and the war that has ensued.

Bad guys are running amok all over the World right now because nobody's stopping them.

[revelarts]

Still not getting what point you are trying to make. Ukraine is at war with Russia. It is in Ukraine's best interest the pipeline was destroyed the way Germany was initially vacillating on the Russian energy. Makes perfect sense. Ukraine needed Germany and whoever else off the fence.

Pales by comparison to Russia's unprovoked military invasion of another country and the war that has ensued.

Bad guys are running amok all over the World right now because nobody's stopping them.

So it's America's job to stop the all the "bad guys" running amok around the world?

no, is the right answer.

[Gunny]

So it's America's job to stop the all the "bad guys" running amok around the world?

no, is the right answer.

Wrong answer. We took on the role of leadership. It's not all fine and dandy only when everything's going our way. You can't just dump allies where lives and entire Nations are stake, threatened by aggressors because succeeding, spoiled-ass generations can't fathom where we came from and what got is here.

THAT is EVERYTHING wrong with this country right now at most every level.