I would only need current proof of these forces existing to disprove them.Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet
Senior Member
I would only need current proof of these forces existing to disprove them.
A chance for a new beginning, like a dawn of reconciliation.
Transplanted Yankee
How would a "natural" explanation for a supposed "supernatural" event lend creedence to the validity of religion?
USAF
Because...
Which would be a great concern, if not for the fact alright pointed out: that supernatural forces can allegedly over-ride the natural forces you mention.The most basic of physics understanding should allow you to comprehend gravity and molecular pull. If you need more than that to understand I can not help you.
"Let me at least not die without a struggle, inglorious, but having done some big thing first, for men to come to know of." - Hector
Senior Member
Reason precludes supernatural. If it is of this universe there are given parameters for forces. Nothing occurs outside of them.
A chance for a new beginning, like a dawn of reconciliation.
USAF
Without assuming what you wish to prove, prove it.
"Let me at least not die without a struggle, inglorious, but having done some big thing first, for men to come to know of." - Hector
Senior Member
that wouldn't prove your claim.....you assert the supernatural does not exist, you would need to prove a negative, which is impossible......
...full immersion.....
.
no fart is purple
Senior Member
please don't tell me you have witnessed every fart.....
...full immersion.....
left coast isolationist
what color does methane burn.....
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
Banned
Yellow.
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left coast isolationist
per mythbusters high speed camera it is a reddish color....saw them the other night.....either way it isn't purple....
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is."
~Albert Camus
.
brain fart?you walked into that one
Banned
Regardless of what color a fart burns... have you heard a good reason why people reject religion yet?
Senior Member
not at all....we're talking about the supernatural here.....I have no idea what an seraphim's fart would be like.....brain fart?
...full immersion.....
Member
Just happen to be involved in a bible study that is covering the New Testament book of Matthew.
Within the book of Matthew, there are many direct quotes by Jesus concerning the "human condition" or the "condition of man" from His perspective. He extensively speaks about man's unbelief, and belief. "He who has ears, or eyes, let him hear or see." That about sums it up from Matthew.
Matthew was a former tax collector for the Romans, and was despised by the Jews as a "turn coat" as he and most tax collectors at that time didn't collect taxes in an ethical way, but gouged folks, over and above what was fair. The Romans looked the other way, as the bottom line was getting the wealth out of the subjugated people, and quibbling over their hired tax collector's methods was a non-issue.
Upon Matthew's being invited to follow Jesus, by Jesus Himself, he/Matthew literally walked away from his very lucrative job of wealth, and followed Christ. He also gave back to the many that he cheated. Ever wonder why he did?
Anyway, thought that little bit of background of this author from the N.T. of the bible would be helpful.
Matthew's book was basically written for Matthew's fellow Jews, rather than the Gentiles, but it indeed is a wealth of first hand, eye-witness information about Jesus, and does indeed have application for gentiles or non-Jews then and now. Thats the beauty and mystery of the bible.
I've copy-pasted a snippet from the 13 chapter of the book of Matthew, where Jesus is telling a parable to the people/crowds and His disciples as well. In my opinion, if this parable and Jesus's explanation isn't succinct enough, what is? I think that DMP's question is a fair one, and deserves a fair, respectful answer as well.
I'm not one that generally likes to drop numerous bible verses into these types of discussions, and if I do, I feel that it is my responsibility to connect them to the discussion concisely.
Just remember that a parable is not an allegory. It is fiction in most cases, but it has a central theme, or message. Jesus used parables for very specific reasons. Parables take some mind or conscience bending on the part of listeners. They are very effective when applied or heard by those that "honestly" are seeking answers or reasons for being, existence, life, ......or just plain old wonderings. Surprisingly, not all human beings ponder the very basics of life, but just chug along in life without, "pondering" or "wondering". Those that do, often fall into a couple categorys; those that wonder without preconceived ideas, pre-conditons, or agendas, and the opposites of the before mentioned. Where do you fall?
I'll let the verses below do the talking or explanation of "Why?", about man/woman's refusal of the biblical explanation of Christ and Christianity.
So was Jesus a lunatic, liar, con-man, or hitting the problem right on target?Matthew 13
Jesus Teaches in Parables
1That day Jesus went out of (A)the house and was sitting (B)by the sea.
2And large crowds gathered to Him, so (C)He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach.
3And He spoke many things to them in (D)parables, saying, "Behold, the sower went out to sow;
4and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up.
5"Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.
6"But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7"Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.
8"And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a (E)hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.
9"(F)He who has ears, let him hear."
An Explanation
10And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
11Jesus answered them, "(G)To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
12"(H)For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.
13"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while (I)seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14"In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
'(J)YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
15(K)FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'
16"(L)But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear.
17"For truly I say to you that (M)many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
The Sower Explained
18"(N)Hear then the parable of the sower.
19"When anyone hears (O)the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, (P)the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
20"The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he (Q)falls away.
22"And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of (R)the world and the (S)deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
23"And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some (T)a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
Last edited by eighballsidepocket; 01-23-2008 at 11:42 AM.
Regards, Eightballsidepocket
"Nothing should be said anonymously behind a P.C., that can't be respectfully said in person"
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