Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA, Southern
    Posts
    27,683
    Thanks (Given)
    32441
    Thanks (Received)
    17532
    Likes (Given)
    3631
    Likes (Received)
    3156
    Piss Off (Given)
    21
    Piss Off (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475258

    Default News/Lockheed-Martin-1-7-trillion-dollars


    Christopher Leonard
    Updated Wed, August 2, 2023 at 7:42 AM CDT
    One Sunday in early 2022, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz gave a speech that reversed more than 70 years of pacifist foreign policy in his nation. Vladimir Putin had just invaded Ukraine, and Scholz’s address to parliament was short, urgent, and written for the ages. Scholz announced that Germany would immediately invest about $100 billion in its military—more than doubling annual spending levels—and boost its defense budget to 2% of its annual GDP from then on. Scholz framed Putin’s invasion as the beginning of a new era of global tension, and he promised that Germany would meet the moment. But while his rhetoric was sweeping, Scholz took time to mention a specific product that he wanted Germany to buy: the ultraexpensive F-35 fighter jet, made by American defense contractor Lockheed Martin.

    This might seem puzzling to anyone who follows the news. Almost since the F-35 program was announced in 2001, it has been the symbol of America’s dysfunctional military-industrial complex. The jet is 10 years behind schedule for final approval and almost 80% over budget, its production repeatedly stalled by defects and miscalculations. Last fall, comedian Bill Maher captured the conventional thinking about the fighter during a monologue on his HBO show. “We spent $1.5 trillion on the F-35, which has never worked, and never will, and yet we still buy it,” Maher declared, concluding, to peals of laughter, “It’s the Yugo of fighter jets.” Maher’s critique was a little off: The estimated cost of developing, building, and maintaining the F-35 fleet over its anticipated life span of about 60 years is actually $1.7 trillion.

    Nonetheless, Germany ended up buying nearly 40 of the jets, at a reported cost of $8 billion. Soon after Scholz’s speech, Canada announced that it wanted 88 planes. As the war in Ukraine dragged on, Greece, the Czech Republic, and Singapore all expressed interest in the F-35. And this came on the heels of massive new orders in 2021 from Finland and even the famously neutral Swiss.

    If the F-35 is such a boondoggle, why are so many governments clamoring to buy it? The answers to this question are vitally important to America and its allies, and to every U.S. taxpayer.

    The F-35 is the largest program inside the Pentagon, by far, with an annual budget of about $12 billion. Taxpayers have invested heavily in the F-35 for more than 20 years, to the exclusion of other defense and domestic priorities. The opportunity cost is measured in hundreds of billions of dollars.

    The program is also a measure of the health of Lockheed Martin, the largest weapons company that has ever existed. Lockheed brought in about $66 billion in revenue in 2022, virtually all of it for arms. (The company makes missiles, missile defense systems, warships, and a host of other combat aircraft, among other products.) It sits at the top of an industry that’s more important to national security than ever: About 58% of the Pentagon budget went to private contractors in 2020, the highest share in 20 years, according to the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

    Ultimately, the F-35 is a test case of Lockheed’s and the Pentagon’s ability to deliver results. Put simply, the calculus runs like this: Either the F-35 was a massive waste of resources—the worst-ever example of the defense industry overpromising and underdelivering—or it was a savvy long-term investment that gives America and its allies a substantial advantage over their enemies.

    Not surprisingly, Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon endorse the latter interpretation. Lockheed says the F-35 will be a central node of the U.S. war machine for years to come. “The F-35 is, without question, the most advanced fighter aircraft in the world. We continue to make advances to it, to keep it ahead of the threat,” says Bridget Lauderdale, Lockheed’s vice president and general manager of the F-35 program. Michael Schmidt, the Air Force three-star general who oversees the program for the Department of Defense, says the plane isn’t just a success, but a necessity. “These are investments that we’re making on behalf of our country and our allies to ensure that we own the skies,” Schmidt tells Fortune, in an office with sweeping views of the Pentagon and Capitol Hill. “That’s the only way you’re going to win in war.”

    FORT WORTH, TEXAS (Nov. 03, 2022) – F-35 Joint Program Executive Officer (PEO) Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt stands elevated above the production floor at Lockheed Martin’s Air Force Plant 4 in Fort Worth, Texas, Nov. 03, 2022, with the F-35 assembly line in the background. This was Schmidt’s first visit to the facility since having assumed the duties of F-35 PEO. The F-35 Joint Program Office is the Department of Defense's focal point for the 5th generation strike aircraft for the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and our allies. The F-35 is the premier multi-mission, 5th-generation weapon system. Its ability to collect, analyze and share data is a force multiplier that enhances all assets in the battle-space: with stealth technology, advanced sensors, weapons capacity, and range. The F-35, which has been operational since July 2015, is the most lethal, survivable, and interoperable fighter aircraft ever built. (U.S. Navy Photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist Matthew Olay/Released)
    FORT WORTH, TEXAS (Nov. 03, 2022) – F-35 Joint Program Executive Officer (PEO) Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt stands elevated above the production floor at Lockheed Martin’s Air Force Plant 4 in Fort Worth, Texas, Nov. 03, 2022, with the F-35 assembly line in the background. This was Schmidt’s first visit to the facility since having assumed the duties of F-35 PEO. The F-35 Joint Program Office is the Department of Defense's focal point for the 5th generation strike aircraft for the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and our allies. The F-35 is the premier multi-mission, 5th-generation weapon system. Its ability to collect, analyze and share data is a force multiplier that enhances all assets in the battle-space: with stealth technology, advanced sensors, weapons capacity, and range. The F-35, which has been operational since July 2015, is the most lethal, survivable, and interoperable fighter aircraft ever built. (U.S. Navy Photo by Chief Mass Communication Specialist Matthew Olay/Released)More
    Contrary to popular belief and Bill Maher, the F-35 does work. Lockheed has delivered about 960 of the jets so far, with about 630 going to the U.S. military—and the plane has performed effectively in combat multiple times. The F-35 has yet to face protracted battle against a sophisticated foreign military. But if or when it does, its design incorporates technological breakthroughs that could confer a huge edge in battle, enabling it to evade detection while linking U.S. and allied forces in a data-sharing network that could outmaneuver and overwhelm an enemy.

    The F-35 is indeed plagued by cost overruns and delays. But those problems are inextricably linked to the advances that have gradually won over pilots and governments—advances that until recently have, almost literally, flown under the radar.

    Newsletter-Gold-Line
    Newsletter-Gold-Line
    The original point of the F-35, ironically, was to save money. In the 1990s, with the Cold War over, military budgets were being cut, and the Pentagon wanted to launch a cheaper, more efficient fighter jet program. The F-35 is called the Joint Strike Fighter because the objective was to build a single plane—lightweight, stealthy, heavily armed, and easy to fly—that could be slightly modified to work for the Air Force, Navy, and Marines, like a uniform car chassis that could be adapted for different models.

    Lockheed Martin itself was born from the cost-saving mindset of the 1990s, as defense contractors merged to survive leaner times. Daniel Tellep, then-CEO of Lockheed Corp., oversaw its merger with Martin Marietta in 1995. Long before then, Lockheed had become expert at winning enormous long-term contracts. Its core business was based on managing extraordinarily complicated projects, pushing the boundaries of the scientifically possible. Tellep said in a 2019 interview that Lockheed’s greatest strength was its ability to read where the Pentagon was headed, and to get there first. “We did not skimp on investing in advanced technology, research and development, and so forth,” said Tellep, who died in 2020. Lockheed’s famed Skunk Works research base built top-secret planes for the CIA, for example, and helped invent stealth technology, which enables aircraft to evade detection by absorbing or dispersing radar signals.
    Makes one wonder what new abilities in warfare this new jet has. eh?--
    Should Russia and China be ever more greatly concerned????????????????? Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  2. Thanks Gunny thanked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,979
    Thanks (Given)
    34370
    Thanks (Received)
    26486
    Likes (Given)
    2386
    Likes (Received)
    10007
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475526

    Default

    Even if we hold back the technology -- like we did with the A-bomb ), selling our top-line stuff to anyone is stupid, IMO. How many wars is it where our troops have had to face our own weapons?
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  4. Thanks Tyr-Ziu Saxnot thanked this post
    Likes Tyr-Ziu Saxnot liked this post
  5. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    USA, Southern
    Posts
    27,683
    Thanks (Given)
    32441
    Thanks (Received)
    17532
    Likes (Given)
    3631
    Likes (Received)
    3156
    Piss Off (Given)
    21
    Piss Off (Received)
    2
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Even if we hold back the technology -- like we did with the A-bomb ), selling our top-line stuff to anyone is stupid, IMO. How many wars is it where our troops have had to face our own weapons?
    We should only sell to our top 5 or 6 allies== Nato countries, imho.
    And even then maybe hold back certain technology.
    And in my mind sell the version one or two levels beneath what we have in this new airplane. ----Tyr
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

  6. Thanks Gunny thanked this post
  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,979
    Thanks (Given)
    34370
    Thanks (Received)
    26486
    Likes (Given)
    2386
    Likes (Received)
    10007
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    We should only sell to our top 5 or 6 allies== Nato countries, imho.
    And even then maybe hold back certain technology.
    And in my mind sell the version one or two levels beneath what we have in this new airplane. ----Tyr
    That's what we claim to do. With the proviso they aren't allowed to sell to non-NATO countries.

    They get the "S" model (stripped of avionics and weapons systems). I just don't consider it all that impossible to get the aforementioned and add it on. We have an Air Force junior enlisted reservist confined awaiting trial for putting ass loads of classified material on the internet.
    Last edited by Gunny; 08-02-2023 at 02:56 PM.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  8. Thanks Tyr-Ziu Saxnot thanked this post
  9. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Posts
    1,859
    Thanks (Given)
    241
    Thanks (Received)
    113
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    81
    Piss Off (Given)
    1
    Piss Off (Received)
    8
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    That's what we claim to do. With the proviso they aren't allowed to sell to non-NATO countries.

    They get the "S" model (stripped of avionics and weapons systems). I just don't consider it all that impossible to get the aforementioned and add it on. We have an Air Force junior enlisted reservist confined awaiting trial for putting ass loads of classified material on the internet.
    do you feel powerful?

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Posts
    47,979
    Thanks (Given)
    34370
    Thanks (Received)
    26486
    Likes (Given)
    2386
    Likes (Received)
    10007
    Piss Off (Given)
    0
    Piss Off (Received)
    12
    Mentioned
    369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    21475526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AHZ View Post
    do you feel powerful?
    Once you enter a conversation I am part of I feel absolutely genius
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

  11. Thanks Kathianne thanked this post
    Likes fj1200, Mr. P liked this post
  12. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    Posts
    1,859
    Thanks (Given)
    241
    Thanks (Received)
    113
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    81
    Piss Off (Given)
    1
    Piss Off (Received)
    8
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Once you enter a conversation I am part of I feel absolutely genius


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Debate Policy - Political Forums