MASS PSYCHOSIS - How an Entire Population Becomes MENTALLY ILL

[AHZ]

for those who feel the thread has been hijacked:

what are some other mass psychotic beliefs?

one great example should not be a thread stopper.

[Kathianne]

for those who feel the thread has been hijacked:

what are some other mass psychotic beliefs?

one great example should not be a thread stopper.

Bye

[fj1200]

for those who feel the thread has been hijacked:

what are some other mass psychotic beliefs?

one great example should not be a thread stopper.

That's not even a good example. There are entire threads devoted to what you seek to yammer on about whereever you can cram it in.

[Kathianne]

for those who feel the thread has been hijacked:

what are some other mass psychotic beliefs?

one great example should not be a thread stopper.

Since you seem adamant on challenging the limits, this is your last 'thread ban' until it stops. Next will be 24 hour bans, to be increased if you choose to keep up the derailing and challenging of mods.

[Gunny]

On the topic of "the Greater Good" ... I cannot say I agree with the narrator on his take, except as he presents it. He presents two extremes, authoritarian rule or anarchy. He speaks in absolutes. He presents society solely in a negative light, and construct. While it may be the latter, the utopian minded people he speaks of must live on some other planet because they don't exist on this one. Society and/or law does not exist for good people. It exists for weak people and criminals, mostly to protect the former from the latter. In a real world where real people kill other real people for whatever reason, society is for the protection of the people.

Whatever the narrator wishes to label it, putting one's desires above the needs of others is just plain selfishness. We don't live in the narrator's utopia. We live in a society. For those who wish to bitch about society and having to participate for it to function, leave. That means pretty much walking out of one's house naked and into the hills. For all the bitching I hear, I don't see many of the bitchers doing THAT. Not being part of society means not having the advantages of anything it offers.

It can go too far the other way. On that, I agree with the narrator. We can see in the media tool daily the inherent danger and downward slide to authoritarianism here in this country. My current observation is we are living in an age where fear, mostly of government and societal labeling, is worse than it was in the 60s living in daily fear we were going to get nuked. All I see currently are a bunch of deer staring at headlights.

It is up to the people to act collectively (dirty word to the I/Me crowd/narrator) to stop the authoritarianism. Even the narrator mentions this here and in other videos -- parallel constructs. But what is it he's constructing? Parallel society to push out the authoritarian one. A parallel society that will need to be watched by the people so it too doesn't slide to either extreme.

Edit: As an aside, I would further point out to AHZ that using the narrator's argument, corporations/people would be free to take their businesses wherever the Hell they want, without government/socital control. So he needs to figure out what he's arguing for or against. Tomorrow, when he can

[revelarts]

IMO..
Concerning govt, socialism, capitalism, anarchy, the question isn't either or. Its the LIMITS of each. And the collective moral principles people want to love...Live under.
There is no perfect system of govt But the best form of govt is LIMITED govt with primarily LOCAL control.
There is no perfect economic system but capitalism LIMITED by govt & morals is the best.
when I say Best I don't mean the most powerful or the richest.
I'm talking about for the most FREEDOM for the most people (which used to a valued ideal in the US).
Best for the most options. Different states and cities with different laws means more options. SMALL LOCAL & REGIONAL biz means more options, vs large gov't & market captured protected mega corps.

One of Govts big flaws is it's separation from the people & secrecy... The larger it gets the worse the problem.
One of capitalism major flaws is its innate lack of morals. Money is its True goal. Not service or products. Those are simply means to the end. And without people IMPOSING universally understood good morals to the transactions , up front or via community reaction or govt sanctions, capitalism becomes just a different form of abuse or tyranny
also Size (monopoly of markets) & collusion for size (effectively monopoly) is a horrific problem.
IF FREEDOM for the most people is something we value. Rather than freedom for corporations to do whatever THEY want.

Big govt plus big corps working together is slightly better than big govt running everything "socialism".
But faceless UNACCOUNTABLE international corps and two-faced national/international govts working together is a horror show as well.
The trains may run on time but "for the greater good" is ONLY what they say it is. And if you don't like it too bad. There are NO other options allowed and NO other places to go.

...For the greater good....

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

IMO..
Concerning govt, socialism, capitalism, anarchy, the question isn't either or. Its the LIMITS of each.And the collective moral principles people want to love...LIve under.
There is no perfect system of govt But the best form of govt is LIMITED govt with primarily LOCAL control.
there is no perfect economic system but capitalism LIMITED by govt & morals is the best.
when I say Best I don't mean the most powerful or the richest.
I'm talking about for the most FREEDOM for the most people (which used to a valued ideal in the US).
Best for the most options, different states and cities with different laws means more options. SMALL LOCAL & REGIONAL biz means more options, vs large gov't & market captured protected mega corps.

one of Govts big flaws is it's separation from the people & secrecy... The larger it gets the worse the problem.
one of capitalism major flaws is its innate lack of morals. money is its True goal. Not service or products. Those are simply means to the end. And without people IMPOSING universally understood good morals to the transactions , up front or via community reaction or govt sanctions, capitalism becomes just a different form of abuse or tyranny
also Size (monopoly of markets) & collusion for size (effectively monopoly) is a horrific problem.
IF FREEDOM for the most people is something we value. Rather than freedom for corporations to do whatever THEY want.

Big govt plus big corps working together is slightly better than big govt running everything "socialism".
But faceless UNACCOUNTABLE international corps and two-faced national/international govts working together is a horror show as well.
The trains may run on time but " for the great good" is ONLY what they say it is. And if you don't like it to bad. There are NO other options allowed and NO other places to go.

...For the greater good....

Bravo. I am with you in this posting.
Either we turn back to the trying to be a moral society or we don't.
If it is the conclusion that we don't , it is going to be very bad and eventually this nation will cease to be. Evil kills its host.
Millions have no concept of that reality. They are being raised blind by a population educating blindness and greed!
Such as that is doomed to its own destructive end as well! --Tyr

[fj1200]

IMO..

Bravo.

Just so I'm understanding here. Government is a vehicle for imposing morality. Is that right?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just so I'm understanding here. Government is a vehicle for imposing morality. Is that right?

NO! No, BUT government already does when it passes laws restricting thief, rape, murder, etc, etc.
To have a civilized society government has to enforce certain moral standards and it does with its laws.
The problem comes when certain factions gain power and try to destroy certain moral standards so they can install or carry on with their immoral actions.
They try to change decency to admit and aid them in their immorality. Government by nature seeks power. It also targets individuals that disagree
with it, especially if they object to its placating evil and aiding darkness as the dems want and install every damn chance they get. A FACT..--Tyr

[revelarts]

NO! No, BUT government already does when it passes laws restricting thief, rape, murder, etc, etc.
To have a civilized society government has to enforce certain moral standards and it does with its laws.
The problem comes when certain factions gain power and try to destroy certain moral standards so they can install or carry on with their immoral actions.
They try to change decency to admit and aid them in their immorality. Government by nature seeks power. It also targets individuals that disagree
with it, especially if they object to its placating evil and aiding darkness as the dems want and install every damn chance they get. A FACT..--Tyr

I agree, accept i would say... strait up... YES. Govt does impose morals standards.
Just like you said murder, rape, theft, even "you shall not commit false witness" (lying) is covered in law via fraud, laws, false advertising laws, slander, perjury laws etc...


That's what any good law is, a LIMITED reflection of good morals. A FINAL backstop to immoral behavior.
The thing is the Gov't & laws should be LIMITED (and mostly local). Most morals should be enforced by God given INTERNAL moral checks, checks by family, checks by community standards pressures, the law should only be a FINAL check for LIMITED extreme moral offenses. (AND the laws themself subject to LOCAL checks)

Fj look, On our better days, we all KNOW that we should care about everyones welfare.
Love your neighbor as yourself is a general universal leaning, that makes society.
Seems to me, an innate desire for connection, love & peace, not just weakness are the general drivers for 'society'.

And Tyr Yep, the thing that gets gov't off track is the fact that some people reject the God given outlines of reality and God's clear teachings of what's best for us.
They don't want God's way, they want what they want, so they start rejecting real morals and then making up BS & turning immorality into law.
Along with some peoples old fashion desire to control others and their environment as much as possible.

[Gunny]

Just so I'm understanding here. Government is a vehicle for imposing morality. Is that right?

Why does government exist if not to impose control based on whatever? Most every law we have on the books (I am sure there are exceptions) is based on someone's idea of right and wrong = morality.

At the one end of the argument where everyone is virtuous and needs no control, there is no need for government. Man is incapable of such. At the other end is "A Brave New World". Only the people themselves can keep a semblance of balance. A responsibility the people of our society have seemingly abdicated.

[revelarts]

Why does government exist if not to impose control based on whatever? Most every law we have on the books (I am sure there are exceptions) is based on someone's idea of right and wrong = morality.

At the one end of the argument where everyone is virtuous and needs no control, there is no need for government. Man is incapable of such. At the other end is "A Brave New World". Only the people themselves can keep a semblance of balance. A responsibility the people of our society have seemingly abdicated.

Gunny sums up James Madison.

“If Men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and the next place, oblige it to control itself.”

[fj1200]

NO! No, BUT government already does when it passes laws restricting thief, rape, murder, etc, etc.
To have a civilized society government has to enforce certain moral standards and it does with its laws.
The problem comes when certain factions gain power and try to destroy certain moral standards so they can install or carry on with their immoral actions.
They try to change decency to admit and aid them in their immorality. Government by nature seeks power. It also targets individuals that disagree
with it, especially if they object to its placating evil and aiding darkness as the dems want and install every damn chance they get. A FACT..--Tyr

I agree, accept i would say... strait up... YES. Govt does impose morals standards.
Just like you said murder, rape, theft, even "you shall not commit false witness" (lying) is covered in law via fraud, laws, false advertising laws, slander, perjury laws etc...


That's what any good law is, a LIMITED reflection of good morals. A FINAL backstop to immoral behavior.
The thing is the Gov't & laws should be LIMITED (and mostly local). Most morals should be enforced by God given INTERNAL moral checks, checks by family, checks by community standards pressures, the law should only be a FINAL check for LIMITED extreme moral offenses. (AND the laws themself subject to LOCAL checks)

Fj look, On our better days, we all KNOW that we should care about everyones welfare.
Love your neighbor as yourself is a general universal leaning, that makes society.
Seems to me, an innate desire for connection, love & peace, not just weakness are the general drivers for 'society'.

And Tyr Yep, the thing that gets gov't off track is the fact that some people reject the God given outlines of reality and God's clear teachings of what's best for us.
They don't want God's way, they want what they want, so they start rejecting real morals and then making up BS & turning immorality into law.
Along with some peoples old fashion desire to control others and their environment as much as possible.

I'll argue that those are not moral standards. Those are crimes agaist life (murder), liberty (rape), and property (theft) along with breach of contract. Rights that we should all enjoy. I could be a completely amoral person who would like to do all of those things but I don't because I don't want to go to jail or be sued. Once a level of "moral standard" is codified into law then judgement is being passed. Whose judgement do we want to rely on? Our guy we voted for who can do no wrong or the guy we didn't vote for who is morally bankrupt.

You want a check against capitalism? Capitalism is its own check, when capitalism is allowed to be. You want God's clear teachings? Whose version of God would you like?

[fj1200]

Why does government exist if not to impose control based on whatever? Most every law we have on the books (I am sure there are exceptions) is based on someone's idea of right and wrong = morality.

At the one end of the argument where everyone is virtuous and needs no control, there is no need for government. Man is incapable of such. At the other end is "A Brave New World". Only the people themselves can keep a semblance of balance. A responsibility the people of our society have seemingly abdicated.

Protect your natural rights and enforce contracts.

[Gunny]

I agree, accept i would say... strait up... YES. Govt does impose morals standards.
Just like you said murder, rape, theft, even "you shall not commit false witness" (lying) is covered in law via fraud, laws, false advertising laws, slander, perjury laws etc...


That's what any good law is, a LIMITED reflection of good morals. A FINAL backstop to immoral behavior.
The thing is the Gov't & laws should be LIMITED (and mostly local). Most morals should be enforced by God given INTERNAL moral checks, checks by family, checks by community standards pressures, the law should only be a FINAL check for LIMITED extreme moral offenses. (AND the laws themself subject to LOCAL checks)

Fj look, On our better days, we all KNOW that we should care about everyones welfare.
Love your neighbor as yourself is a general universal leaning, that makes society.
Seems to me, an innate desire for connection, love & peace, not just weakness are the general drivers for 'society'.

And Tyr Yep, the thing that gets gov't off track is the fact that some people reject the God given outlines of reality and God's clear teachings of what's best for us.
They don't want God's way, they want what they want, so they start rejecting real morals and then making up BS & turning immorality into law.
Along with some peoples old fashion desire to control others and their environment as much as possible.

Society does teach its young. We use Wilhelm I's compulsory education system to teach them what government deems necessary.