Morality is rational.

[AHZ]

Morality is definitely rational.

Morality is a set of attitudes and behaviors that faciltate voluntary, cooperative, and mutally beneficial relationships.

To figure out what is moral apply jesus' golden rule, which comes to us from a religious tradition, but the rule calls for the individual to use empathy, imagination, and personal judgement, and is ultimately rational.

if jesus told you to be rational would rationality be religious dogma?

no, it just means that's a good religion.

rationality is not morality in and of itself. one could very easily rationalize lying to and poisoning all of humanity, if one possesses a 'might makes right' darwinian / evil outlook, like big pharma nazis do.

Morality is more that rationality. it is rationality plus wanting coexistence and peace, and presuming acceptance.

all the worlds relgions possess basic moral truths and practice them within the community.

they all have their focuses, peculiarities, and different outlook on relations with "other". some are less peaceful than others.

the "turn the other cheek" /golden rule ethos of christianity and appeal to the heart instead of coercion does make christianity well suited to multicultural contexts we live in now. some are too stabby and beheady and need reforming, though some parties like stabby and beheady due to posessing genocidal ideologies. these are false moralities and seek to cover human on human predation with a patina of thin/bad logic.

i know, "the crusades" etc, but the roman papal cult is not a great version of christianity.

i think the amish have it right and are basically the perfect people, though of course, we all are flawed and falled, life being a constant battle to love perfect a perfect love in a fallen world.

and oh yeah. The catholic church invented islam.

[revelarts]

Morality is definitely rational.

Morality is a set of attitudes and behaviors that faciltate voluntary, cooperative, and mutally beneficial relationships.

To figure out what is moral apply jesus' golden rule, which comes to us from a religious tradition, but the rule calls for the individual to use empathy, imagination, and personal judgement, and is ultimately rational.

if Jesus told you to be rational would rationality be religious dogma?

no, it just means that's a good religion.

rationality is not morality in and of itself. one could very easily rationalize lying to and poisoning all of humanity, if one possesses a 'might makes right' darwinian / evil outlook, like big pharma nazis do.

Morality is more that rationality. it is rationality plus wanting coexistence and peace, and presuming acceptance.

all the worlds relgions possess basic moral truths and practice them within the community.

they all have their focuses, peculiarities, and different outlook on relations with "other". some are less peaceful than others.

the "turn the other cheek" /golden rule ethos of christianity and appeal to the heart instead of coercion does make christianity well suited to multicultural contexts we live in now. some are too stabby and beheady and need reforming, though some parties like stabby and beheady due to posessing genocidal ideologies. these are false moralities and seek to cover human on human predation with a patina of thin/bad logic.

i know, "the crusades" etc, but the roman papal cult is not a great version of christianity.

i think the amish have it right and are basically the perfect people, though of course, we all are flawed and falled, life being a constant battle to love perfect a perfect love in a fallen world.

and oh yeah. The catholic church invented islam.

Yes, morality is rational.

you say
"To figure out what is moral apply Jesus' golden rule, which comes to us from a religious tradition, but the rule calls for the individual to use empathy, imagination, and personal judgement, and is ultimately rational."

Ok, so we START with Jesus. Yes, That's what i'm saying.
the Base is Jesus/God.

We don't start with Darwin.
If we start with Darwin what do we get?

Darwin says we're just animals, and everything about us is just for survival and reproduction.
If that's the case then good and evil are just as important for survival & reproduction. Since it's part of our nature. Also we see "from nature" that there's nothing inherent in any species survival. that is to say that there's nothing guaranteed about survival. There are more kinds of extinct animals than living. There's nothing in nature that says we should use empathy in every case (any case)...to maximize our individual survival. By any means necessary seems more natural. And if we want to expand our reproduction, men should spread seed far and wide. And abortions should never happen BTW.

If children/adults are taught that Jesus is a myth, or a take it or leave it "religious" figure who should never be talked in polite conversation... or ever in politics.
And Darwinism is FACTUALLY true beyond question.
Why exactly should anyone take the so-called words of Jesus anymore seriously than the words of Santa Claus?
While Karl Marks was a real person, who says the world is all class struggle and you have to break the system, and religion is just another control system of the capitalist elite.

If Jesus words shouldn't even be mentioned in public, or in schools, or in politics, or in polite conversations. Who's going to know what He or his apostles said anyway.
And if, at best, 'religious people" should Join Darwinism with Jesus ...somehow... where's Jesus in the mix with Darwin, a higher or lower authority?

Does it make sense for young people or anyone to RATIONALLY apply the words of Jesus to anything serious?

[AHZ]

Yes, morality is rational.

you say
"To figure out what is moral apply Jesus' golden rule, which comes to us from a religious tradition, but the rule calls for the individual to use empathy, imagination, and personal judgement, and is ultimately rational."

Ok, so we START with Jesus. Yes, That's what i'm saying.
the Base is Jesus/God.

We don't start with Darwin.
If we start with Darwin what do we get?

Darwin says we're just animals, and everything about us is just for survival and reproduction.
If that's the case then good and evil are just as important for survival & reproduction. Since it's part of our nature. Also we see "from nature" that there's nothing inherent in any species survival. that is to say that there's nothing guaranteed about survival. There are more kinds of extinct animals than living. There's nothing in nature that says we should use empathy in every case (any case)...to maximize our individual survival. By any means necessary seems more natural. And if we want to expand our reproduction, men should spread seed far and wide. And abortions should never happen BTW.

If children/adults are taught that Jesus is a myth, or a take it or leave it "religious" figure who should never be talked in mixed company... or ever in politics.
And Darwinism is FACTUALLY true beyond question.
Why exactly should anyone take the so-called words of Jesus anymore seriously than the words of Santa Claus?
While Karl Marks was a real person, who says the world is all class struggle and you have to break the system, and religion is just another control system of the capitalist elite.

If Jesus words shouldn't even be mentioned in public, or in schools, or in politics, or in polite conversations. Who's going know what he said anyway.
And if, at best, 'religious people" should Join Darwinism with Jesus ...somehow... where's Jesus in the mix with Darwin, a higher or lower authority?

Does it make sense for young people or anyone to RATIONALLY apply the words of Jesus to anything serious?

but it's not a fixed list of anything specific. it's a call to use one;s personal judgement and own experiences to know how to treat others.

I'm pro religious. Im fine mentioning god and jesus in public.

of course god is rational. all religions share 90+ percent of their moral teachings.

i think all the religions are more alike than not alike.

these anti-religionists always say religion can only be divisive, that's beause they have a mass delusion in their brain that causes them to gin up war for profit and call it noble. they make everything divisive as a business model.

that's evil.

god is the answer, not the problem.

morality is a feature, not a bug.

i mention darwinism because darwinism is often used to justify evil behavior about "survival of the fittest" or the luciferian ideology.

The flaw in that is morality and working together is our strongest feature. and elities throw away that reality and pefer their 'Might makes right' / "it's ok to lie to everybody" ideology.

even if we descended from apes, that doesn't mean morality is regressive. it's our path forward.

the separtion of church and state is not the separation of humanity from morality. the latter is the demonic abuse of freedom policies.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

In this world there exists good and evil. It is rational
to be good, to do good. Those that believe evil is rational or that evil is better, are indeed crazy.
Of course sane people know this already.
So just what are the people that think the opposite is true???--Tyr

[AHZ]

In this world there exists good and evil. It is rational
to be good, to do good. Those that believe evil is rational or that evil is better, are indeed crazy.
Of course sane people know this already.
So just what are the people that think the opposite is true???--Tyr

i think it's people doing awful things and committed to evil trying to lie to themselves.

[AHZ]

Does it make sense for young people or anyone to RATIONALLY apply the words of Jesus to anything serious?

yes. we would have a revolution of human consciousness and spirituality.

[revelarts]

yes. we would have a revolution of human consciousness and spirituality.

That would be OUTSTANDING.

But if they end up believing the lies they've been told were facts, that Jesus, and all religions, are just myths & tools of control & the cause of most wars and conflict through history, it would not be a rational move on their part.


But yes, Youth turning to Jesus's words and person... in mass... for a spiritual awakening.


let it be done.

[AHZ]

That would be OUTSTANDING.

But if they end up believing the lies they've been told were facts, that Jesus, and all religions, are just myths & tools of control & the cause of most wars and conflict through history, it would not be a rational move on their part.


But yes, Youth turning to Jesus's words and person... in mass... for a spiritual awakening.


let it be done.

religious organizations can become corrupt and power seeking and start interpreting the core doctrines to that end. too much wisdom of the fathers can lead to fascism. Oh shit did he say that?

religions are tools of control on the dark side, but also transmitters of morality and light.

the human ability to cooperate is really our ace in the hole.

it all comes down to us and what we do with things.

[AHZ]

Have you all checked out alan watts on christianity and the eastern religions.

quite insightful.

and hilarious.

He made a point how chrisitianity is really playing with fire by talking about men being gods also.

"ok, but just one of you...."

[revelarts]

Have you all checked out alan watts on christianity and the eastern religions.
quite insightful.
and hilarious.
He made a point how chrisitianity is really playing with fire by talking about men being gods also.
"ok, but just one of you...."

I'm vaguely familiar with Alan Watt.. I think there maybe 2 of them.
If it's the one I'm thinking of. he's just another person that thinks all religions, including christianity, are myths.

That idea helps people to go to the fire. while thinking they are wise.

[AHZ]

I'm vaguely familiar with Alan Watt.. I think there maybe 2 of them.
If it's the one I'm thinking of. he's just another person that thinks all religions, including christianity, are myths.

That idea helps people to go to the fire. while thinking they are wise.

i wouldn't say that's his take.

he's a deeply spiritual person.

He's an ordained episcopalian priest / professor who got deeply into comparative religion, with a focus on buddhism, taoism, hinduism etc....hippy stuff if you want to call it that.


the golden rule is the most important part of christianity, not the nicene creed.


was the cathar genocide just?

[revelarts]

i wouldn't say that's his take.
he's a deeply spiritual person.
He's an ordained Episcopalian priest / professor who got deeply into comparative religion, with a focus on buddhism, taoism, hinduism etc....hippy stuff if you want to call it that.

I think he's the other Alan Watt, not the main one I've reviewed, Give me link to his stuff.
But still, he and the other are on the same track... with a mythological view of Jesus & the Bible.
Sadly most Episcopalian priest live there.

the golden rule is the most important part of christianity, not the nicene creed.

How do you come to that conclusion?
And why are you only making those 2 items the only choices from which to pick "the most important part of Christianity"?

Was the Cathar genocide just?

Who said it was?

[AHZ]

I think he's the other Alan Watt, not the main one I've reviewed, Give me link to his stuff.
But still, he and the other are on the same track... with a mythological view of Jesus & the Bible.
Sadly most Episcopalian priest live there.


How do you come to that conclusion?
And why are you only making those 2 items the only choices from which to pick "the most important part of Christianity"?




Who said it was?

he believes that multiple religions point to the same real spirituality.

he's not a reductionist.

it's cross validation that spirit and soul are real.

[revelarts]

he believes that multiple religions point to the same real spirituality.
He's not a reductionist.
It's cross validation that spirit and soul are real.

Yes, there's no doubt that other religions point to the reality of spirit & soul.
Some religions point to sacrificing children to the real spirits as well. Still a problem in parts of India.
Many religions correctly point to fact that there are spirits that LIE to people.
When Satan confronts Jesus, half of what Satan said was true. When he spoke to Eve as well.

We can acknowledge truth found in other religion but we cannot pretend they are all "basically the same". not if we're honest about each religions in full. and how the true parts are mingled with deadly falsehoods.


Jesus was very clear,
He said "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father but by me."

Alan Watt and others seem to like to cherry pick the bits and pieces of religion that suit them.
And promote the parts they like.
The Unity and Unitarian religions do the same thing more explicitly.

Seems to me it's ...weird... to say,
'I know best i'll take the part of what Jesus and the apostles said and ignore the rest. Because, well, I know better than they do.'


.......
Concerning the most important part of Christianity. It seems pretty clear that 4 gospels and the rest of the new testament promote the belief in the Death & Resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of the sins of the world as MOST important.

And 'Loving your Neighbor' should be a By Product of, and acknowledgement of, that gift.

[AHZ]

Yes, there's no doubt that other religions point to the reality of spirit & soul.
Some religions point to sacrificing children to the real spirits as well. Still a problem in parts of India.
Many religions correctly point to fact that there are spirits that LIE to people.
When Satan confronts Jesus, half of what Satan said was true. When he spoke to Eve as well.

We can acknowledge truth found in other religion but we cannot pretend they are all "basically the same". not if we're honest about each religions in full. and how the true parts are mingled with deadly falsehoods.


Jesus was very clear,
He said "I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father but by me."

Alan Watt and others seem to like to cherry pick the bits and pieces of religion that suit them.
And promote the parts they like.
The Unity and Unitarian religions do the same thing more explicitly.

Seems to me it's ...weird... to say,
'I know best i'll take the part of what Jesus and the apostles said and ignore the rest. Because, well, I know better than they do.'


.......
Concerning the most important part of Christianity. It seems pretty clear that 4 gospels and the rest of the new testament promote the belief in the Death & Resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of the sins of the world as MOST important.

And 'Loving your Neighbor' should be a By Product of, and acknowledgement of, that gift.

outsiders would also discredit christianity as it burned witches, and genocided other christians, and did inquisitions.

granted it was many years ago, and has reformed since then.


islam needs to go through that.

basic morality is the intersection diagram of the moral codes the religions espouse for treating the "ingroup".

"out group" treatments are more problematic, and often a leftover from periods of violence and hard times that created a trauma bonding reaction within the community, and may have been retrofitted into the community as a reaction.

a basic morality can be abstracted. this combined with overt religious individual freedom is sufficient, and optimal, like what we have now.

like I always say, separation of church and state is not the separation of morality from humanity.


focusing on a creed about belief in a few key miracles misses the entire point.

the golden rule is more important.

this is my determination.

I read and think for myself, and i pick and choose, just like we all do.

I admit I do it.