Morality is rational.

[AHZ]

That is clear.
Most important foundation of the LAW.

AHZ, What happens when you break the law? Or break the golden rule?
What do you do with your guilt?
Guilt is just as innately real as the internal morals that expose it.

EVERYONE is guilty of NOT following the golden rule in small and large degrees.
Jesus told Peter and the apostles the most important thing is
"...He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name...”

Wether or not you think that's the best approach is your opinion.
Jesus said THAT'S what Peter and his followers should lead to... if not lead with.

Why? Because the guilt of each of us from not always following the golden rule has to be dealt with.

Wether you believe it or not is between you and God.
But there's plenty of evidence to back it up to make a rational step into that belief.
If you want to see it. A lot is self evident.


BTW I just found out Sunday that a popular YouTube atheist who called himself "Cosmic Skeptic" became a Christian some time last year.
now calls himself "Cosmic Christian". He became a Christian AFTER looking at the evidence. Not by torture, or blind faith, or appeals to authority.

so you do or don't want a theocracy?

i never said all christians came to it by torture. but people have been murdered for not believing or agreeing with items in the nicene creed. thought crimes.

i think that's wrong.

[Black Diamond]

so you do or don't want a theocracy?

i never said all christians came to it by torture. but people have been murdered for not believing or agreeing with items in the nicene creed. thought crimes.

i think that's wrong.

A theocracy vs the woke "democracy " or woke "republic "we are headed for?
Good question.

[revelarts]

Morality is rationalized, not necessarily rational.

if we begin and end with only ourselves.
There's an inner morality that we KNOW.
Similar to the way we know if we're off balance.
Problem is the culture is like living all our lives on different ships where we get used to the bobbing and swaying. Yet we manage to stay upright most of the time. and have some sense of up & down and sideways.
But when someone says there's such a thing as land that does not move. That the water and ships float on.
people who've never been on land don't believe it.
And just want to trust their guts that they are standing up strait... most of the time. When they've never really every known what solid ground is.

Jesus is the Rock. God is the foundation. the objective standard. the source of morality.

Water and ships floating in space makes no sense.
Morality without a foundation somewhere makes no sense.
if there's no universal foundation then everyones personal sense of morals. up, down, sideways, is just as good as anyone elses.

You don't have to believe in God or the land if you don't want to.
You can tell people to trust their guts and personal sense of balance and the words of Davey Jones. Cause Davey jones was a wise man...maybe.
Or tell people to just check the deck of the ship. Yes, that's it's better than Nothing.
And is generally based on the land anyway.
Even though they can't see it, or even believe in it.

But the thing is if you REALLY want to get strait and level you have to reference the land.
rationally speaking.

[revelarts]

so you do or don't want a theocracy?

So exactly what have I said here to make you think i want a theocracy?
How does using free speech to tell people your understanding of the truth, turn into theocracy & mind control.
You don't have to believe it at all.
You are free to believe what you want.
I'm free to say you are wrong here ... or right here. based on my understanding and the evidence.


But to answer this question AGAIN.

"And as i mentioned before, I want no new laws.
I want REPEAL of new laws so that the old laws stand.
The old laws that ALIGN CLOSER with "religion".

Amazingly it seems that the old laws align closer to "religion" specifically, broad brush Conservative Christianity.
It's almost like the people who wrote them were religious or influenced by religion or maybe even Christian or something."

to go further .I'll say, YES i do want a theocracy...When Jesus returns there will be a theocracy. That's when I want it.
But He's never asked Christians to create one on earth.
The ancient Jews were supposed to do that with the state of Israel. As an example to the world... and basically, they failed.

But I Do believe that the secular U.S. can learn from Israel's example, laws and practice

For one thing, Israel and less than 1000 laws!
Limited gov't.
No standing army.
No monarchy, president or congress making laws willy nilly. but local elders oversight and local courts, and appellate courts
Private property
Ways of breaking up monopolistic land ownership every 50 years
taxes that went directly to help the poor

Any of that sound "too religious"?
Sound like mind control theocracy?

[Gunny]

if we begin and end with only ourselves.
There's an inner morality that we KNOW.
Similar to the way we know if we're off balance.
Problem is the culture is like living all our lives on different ships where we get used to the bobbing and swaying. Yet we manage to stay upright most of the time. and have some sense of up & down and sideways.
But when someone says there's such a thing as land that does not move. That the water and ships float on.
people who've never been on land don't believe it.
And just want to trust their guts that they are standing up strait... most of the time. When they've never really every known what solid ground is.

Jesus is the Rock. God is the foundation. the objective standard. the source of morality.

Water and ships floating in space makes no sense.
Morality without a foundation somewhere makes no sense.
if there's no universal foundation then everyones personal sense of morals. up, down, sideways, is just as good as anyone elses.

You don't have to believe in God or the land if you don't want to.
You can tell people to trust their guts and personal sense of balance and the words of Davey Jones. Cause Davey jones was a wise man...maybe.
Or tell people to just check the deck of the ship. Yes, that's it's better than Nothing.
And is generally based on the land anyway.
Even though they can't see it, or even believe in it.

But the thing is if you REALLY want to get strait and level you have to reference the land.
rationally speaking.

No such thing as inner/inherent morality. Morality is what societies determine to be right/wrong, good/bad. We are born knowing only hunger and cold. We do what it takes to survive. If we are born into a society, we learn what we are taught from society in order to survive. Even if we choose later to go against society, our Worldview is STILL based on what it has taught us.

Judeo-Christianity is taught to us from birth. Christians take it on faith, AND CALL IT THAT, that Christ is our Savior and through Him we earn eternal salvation. Had we not been taught such, our Worldview would be completely different.

[revelarts]

No such thing as inner/inherent morality. Morality is what societies determine to be right/wrong, good/bad. We are born knowing only hunger and cold. We do what it takes to survive. If we are born into a society, we learn what we are taught from society in order to survive. Even if we choose later to go against society, our Worldview is STILL based on what it has taught us.

Well you know that's what a lot of folks use to teach. (after schools got away from the biblical world view)
but there have been studies of Babies... before they can speak.
where they show them a puppet show of one puppet mistreating another. then after the show give the puppets to the child and over and over again the children tries to punish the aggressive puppets.

What are some of the 1st words out of a child's mouth?
after "mine!" it's
"that's not fair!".
they say it with the clear expectation that others know INTUITIVELY exactly what they are talking about.

researchers have gone around the world and looked at most cultures, most cultures understand some version of "right and wrong" and want to paint themselves as right.
like here in the U.S. where abortionist try to paint themselves as helping women. Doing "good".
the moral leaning inside of people is in fact innate. (the expression of it .. as i mentioned in the previous... can be all over the place)
And when it's not there we call that person a psychopath.
If i understand it correctly we don't call them that just because they aren't following cultural norms,
Or even that they aren't generally doing right or wrong themselves.
They know, from watching others, what it means. But they have no real sense of it or guilt themselves.
Some people have had severe brain trauma, or emotional trauma to the point where they've lost the general sense.

so yeah gunny i have to disagree. we are not "just" operating off of cultural cues. the cultures have all (come out of Adam) & coalesced around the same natural inborn tendencies.
Look, do we say that romantic love is just cultural? No. we know that it's universal across culture. INNATE. It's courtship rituals are just expressed differently via different traditions.
Do we say that since not everyone has experience deep romantic feelings, that it's not real? Or not part of most people operating system even if it's not accessed?
God has planted something of a moral compass IN us that most of us can't deny.
We usually just call it a conscience.

Judeo-Christianity is taught to us from birth. Christians take it on faith, AND CALL IT THAT, that Christ is our Savior and through Him we earn eternal salvation. Had we not been taught such, our Worldview would be completely different.

I was taught it and I didn't believe it.
Because i was asked to just take it on BLIND faith. I was a serious agnostic and could take Christianity or leave it along with all the other religions.
it amazed me that people COULD bring themselves to act like it was true.
But I also knew i didn't know everything so i was open to listen to all views.
When I got older i realized there's more to it historically and scientifically than what the simple half read misunderstood bible stories I had dismissed.

Bottom line people can and do change their POVs based on Information and not everyone holds to the worldview they were given when they were raised.

[AHZ]

So exactly what have I said here to make you think i want a theocracy?
How does using free speech to tell people your understanding of the truth, turn into theocracy & mind control.
You don't have to believe it at all.
You are free to believe what you want.
I'm free to say you are wrong here ... or right here. based on my understanding and the evidence.


But to answer this question AGAIN.


to go further .I'll say, YES i do want a theocracy...When Jesus returns there will be a theocracy. That's when I want it.
But He's never asked Christians to create one on earth.
The ancient Jews were supposed to do that with the state of Israel. As an example to the world... and basically, they failed.

But I Do believe that the secular U.S. can learn from Israel's example, laws and practice

For one thing, Israel and less than 1000 laws!
Limited gov't.
No standing army.
No monarchy, president or congress making laws willy nilly. but local elders oversight and local courts, and appellate courts
Private property
Ways of breaking up monopolistic land ownership every 50 years
taxes that went directly to help the poor

Any of that sound "too religious"?
Sound like mind control theocracy?

I was talking to gunny.

he seems to want to enforce laws no matter what, rational, irrational, secular, whatever....

when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. hes got a job to do.

Only the noahide laws command men to create government to enforce laws. and that's not christianity, it's judaism. two separate religions.


"palestinians don't exist" is kind of mind controlly and fucked up.

does the golden rule tell us to tell other people they don't exist?

[AHZ]

Morlity is rational.

getting along facilitates cooperation and enhanced possibilities for all. it's objectively preferable.

it's mankinds greatest achievement. its precedes all other things we have accomplished.

we are a social species.


of course immorality sucks totalitarianism into existence. that's sometimes why jackboot types facilitate division and hatred.

constant fear and hatred dissolves our morality and dehumanizes us, like satan wants.

[AHZ]

and mind your bloody oaths, folks.

jesus requires no secret ceremony.

[AHZ]

No such thing as inner/inherent morality. Morality is what societies determine to be right/wrong, good/bad. We are born knowing only hunger and cold. We do what it takes to survive. If we are born into a society, we learn what we are taught from society in order to survive. Even if we choose later to go against society, our Worldview is STILL based on what it has taught us.

Judeo-Christianity is taught to us from birth. Christians take it on faith, AND CALL IT THAT, that Christ is our Savior and through Him we earn eternal salvation. Had we not been taught such, our Worldview would be completely different.

We're talking about morality being RATIONAL, not necessarily inherent.

chemistry knowledge isnt inherent but it is rational.

cooperation always makes societies stronger. people realize that after repeated interactions with one another.


we can do more cooperatively trusting in the understanding that others won't bludgeon us or rape our wives.



this is completely rational.

denying the rationality of morality keeps people clinging to "might makes right" jackboot ideologies.

[AHZ]

Morality is human social technology. dont be a luddite.

[AHZ]

the problem with darwinism as AN IDEOLOGY AND WORLDVIEW:

darwinism as a worldview tells people they should victimize others if they can so 'evolution can happen'.

it's really messed up and ultimately spiritually satanic.

even if we came from monkeys, morality is still our greatest achievement, though there is still much human on human predation.


insisting morality is irrational keeps otherwise rational people from exploring being a good person.

the system teaches that evil is enlightened (rational) and morality is an archaic superstition and must always be framed as such.

ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

A million different stages to morality.
But none of them are better for all of mankind than is Christian moraility.--tyr

[AHZ]

A million different stages to morality.
But none of them are better for all of mankind than is Christian moraility.--tyr

maybe.

but would you rather have everyone follow the golden rule, or have every believe the virgin birth?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

maybe.

but would you rather have everyone follow the golden rule, or have every believe the virgin birth?

Ideally one would follow both..!
Christian morality and the golden rule, n'est-ce pas? ,--- Tyr