Morality is rational.

[AHZ]

Ideally one would follow both..!
Christian morality and the golden rule, n'est-ce pas? ,--- Tyr

the golden rule is the summation of christian morality.


but my questioned is formatted for a choice to be made, between believing the virgin birth and following the golden rule.

what if it has to be one or the other? just indulge me, as a hypothetical scenario.

[Kathianne]

the golden rule is the summation of christian morality.


but my questioned is formatted for a choice to be made, between believing the virgin birth and following the golden rule.

what if it has to be one or the other? just indulge me, as a hypothetical scenario.

Sounds a bit satanic,'indulge me...' You like to tempt others onto the wrong road. It appears not to be limited to political issues either.

[AHZ]

Sounds a bit satanic,'indulge me...' You like to tempt others onto the wrong road. It appears not to be limited to political issues either.

teaching people morality is rational is the wrong road?

how so?

please elucidate.

[revelarts]

the golden rule is the summation of christian morality.
but my questioned is formatted for a choice to be made, between believing the virgin birth and following the golden rule.
what if it has to be one or the other? just indulge me, as a hypothetical scenario.

The virgin birth leads you to the following the person who spoke the golden rule so, if you're consistent, you get both.



IF you have a choice between
Real forgiveness from God for everything you've ever done wrong, spiritual peace, and a free pass to heaven with friendship with God based on the sacrifice of Jesus. And the Golden Rule.

or

just "the Golden Rule".

Which would you choose... hypothetically?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

the golden rule is the summation of christian morality.


but my questioned is formatted for a choice to be made, between believing the virgin birth and following the golden rule.

what if it has to be one or the other? just indulge me, as a hypothetical scenario.

Does not have to be one or the other. One can easily do both.
But if choosing just one , one has best choose the virgin birth, imho. -Tyr-Tyr

[AHZ]

The virgin birth leads you to the following the person who spoke the golden rule so, if you're consistent, you get both.



IF you have a choice between
Real forgiveness from God for everything you've ever done wrong, spiritual peace, and a free pass to heaven with friendship with God based on the sacrifice of Jesus. And the Golden Rule.

or

just "the Golden Rule".

Which would you choose... hypothetically?

for all people to follow the golden rule. no doubt about it.

i believe that would be more important to jesus as well.

[AHZ]

Does not have to be one or the other. One can easily do both.
But if choosing just one , one has best choose the virgin birth, imho. -Tyr-Tyr

of course. I agree.

but which would be a bigger success for morality, having all people believe the virgin birth, or having all people follow the golden rule?

consider virtue signalling versus actual life changes.

[Kathianne]

for all people to follow the golden rule. no doubt about it.

i believe that would be more important to jesus as well.

of course. I agree.

but which would be a bigger success for morality, having all people believe the virgin birth, or having all people follow the golden rule?

Cake and eating. The trend continues.

[AHZ]

Cake and eating. The trend continues.

the fact of morality being rational increases my faith.


i came to jesus because i saw his conslusions are sound.



this approach is more likely to expand morality to rational people.

telling people morality is merely superstition guarantees bad conduct, imo.


of course, as we already discussed, bad conduct sucks totalitarianism into existence.... so.... maybe thats the jackboot goal of keeping religion crazy.


keep austin weird.

keep religion crazy.

[Gunny]

Well you know that's what a lot of folks use to teach. (after schools got away from the biblical world view)
but there have been studies of Babies... before they can speak.
where they show them a puppet show of one puppet mistreating another. then after the show give the puppets to the child and over and over again the children tries to punish the aggressive puppets.

What are some of the 1st words out of a child's mouth?
after "mine!" it's
"that's not fair!".
they say it with the clear expectation that others know INTUITIVELY exactly what they are talking about.

researchers have gone around the world and looked at most cultures, most cultures understand some version of "right and wrong" and want to paint themselves as right.
like here in the U.S. where abortionist try to paint themselves as helping women. Doing "good".
the moral leaning inside of people is in fact innate. (the expression of it .. as i mentioned in the previous... can be all over the place)
And when it's not there we call that person a psychopath.
If i understand it correctly we don't call them that just because they aren't following cultural norms,
Or even that they aren't generally doing right or wrong themselves.
They know, from watching others, what it means. But they have no real sense of it or guilt themselves.
Some people have had severe brain trauma, or emotional trauma to the point where they've lost the general sense.

so yeah gunny i have to disagree. we are not "just" operating off of cultural cues. the cultures have all (come out of Adam) & coalesced around the same natural inborn tendencies.
Look, do we say that romantic love is just cultural? No. we know that it's universal across culture. INNATE. It's courtship rituals are just expressed differently via different traditions.
Do we say that since not everyone has experience deep romantic feelings, that it's not real? Or not part of most people operating system even if it's not accessed?
God has planted something of a moral compass IN us that most of us can't deny.
We usually just call it a conscience.





I was taught it and I didn't believe it.
Because i was asked to just take it on BLIND faith. I was a serious agnostic and could take Christianity or leave it along with all the other religions.
it amazed me that people COULD bring themselves to act like it was true.
But I also knew i didn't know everything so i was open to listen to all views.
When I got older i realized there's more to it historically and scientifically than what the simple half read misunderstood bible stories I had dismissed.

Bottom line people can and do change their POVs based on Information and not everyone holds to the worldview they were given when they were raised.

If belief was inherent, you would not have free will to choose otherwise.

[AHZ]

If belief was inherent, you would not have free will to choose otherwise.

beliefs are not inherent, but impulses are.

and we as mammals have a love and cooperation impulse, unlike the reptilians.

[revelarts]

for all people to follow the golden rule. no doubt about it.

i believe that would be more important to jesus as well.

Jesus spoke about Hell more than any other person in Bible.
He loved people and wanted them to avoid it, so much so that he died to create THE way for people to escaped it.

it's not by trying and failing to live by the golden rule.
it's by trusting in him and his sacrifice.

Jesus would prefer people trust him.
Than to ignore his gift and try (& fail) to live by the golden rule as best they can and still go to Hell... As "nice people".
Like the rich young ruler He talk too.
you keep assuming you have an idea of what Jesus thinks but somehow you make little reference to what he said in context.
Just so where clear Jesus was ask what is the greatest Commandment

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Jesus Speaking to Jewish leader said to him.. follow the golden rule... umm, no wait a minute.

...For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God....

So I'm not sure how you've landed on the idea that Jesus would be More focused on the "golden rule" without reference to loving God, or trust in him.

Look AHZ, if you think it's better to generically promote the "golden rule" to a secular audience to try and help the culture reform, OK, fine.
go for it.
But don't pretend to speak to what Jesus REALLY wants, when his words are pretty clear & open to everyone who wants to see.
That He NEVER separated love of God from love to mankind, And never minimized salvation & eternal life... in favor of not offending or better reaching the non-religious with good advice.

Jesus has told Christians to spread the "Good News" not just the Good Advice.

[AHZ]

Jesus spoke about Hell more than any other person in Bible.
He loved people and wanted them to avoid it, so much so that he died to create THE way for people to escaped it.

it's not by trying and failing to live by the golden rule.
it's by trusting in him and his sacrifice.

Jesus would prefer people trust him.
Than to ignore his gift and try (& fail) to live by the golden rule as best they can and still go to Hell... As "nice people".
Like the rich young ruler He talk too.
you keep assuming you have an idea of what Jesus thinks but somehow you make little reference to what he said in context.
Just so where clear Jesus was ask what is the greatest Commandment

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Jesus Speaking to Jewish leader said to him.. follow the golden rule... umm, no wait a minute.

...For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God....

So I'm not sure how you've landed on the idea that Jesus would be More focused on the "golden rule" without reference to loving God, or trust in him.

Look AHZ, if you think it's better to generically promote the "golden rule" to a secular audience to try and help the culture reform, OK, fine.
go for it.
But don't pretend to speak to what Jesus REALLY wants, when his words are pretty clear & open to everyone who wants to see.
That He NEVER separated love of God from love to mankind, And never minimized salvation & eternal life... in favor of not offending or better reaching the non-religious with good advice.

Jesus has told Christian to spread the "Good News" not just the Good Advice.

trying is the key.

of course we all fail. acknowledging the value of that golden rule path is more important than ackowledging unconfirmable miracles i believe.

you're proposing thought crimes. and I reject that.

and i havent actully seen jesus talking about hell all that much. that was a medieval art and fear control project more than anything.

a jew would have believed in death and resurrection at the end times.

[Black Diamond]

Jesus spoke about Hell more than any other person in Bible.
He loved people and wanted them to avoid it, so much so that he died to create THE way for people to escaped it.

it's not by trying and failing to live by the golden rule.
it's by trusting in him and his sacrifice.

Jesus would prefer people trust him.
Than to ignore his gift and try (& fail) to live by the golden rule as best they can and still go to Hell... As "nice people".
Like the rich young ruler He talk too.
you keep assuming you have an idea of what Jesus thinks but somehow you make little reference to what he said in context.
Just so where clear Jesus was ask what is the greatest Commandment

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

Jesus Speaking to Jewish leader said to him.. follow the golden rule... umm, no wait a minute.

...For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God....

So I'm not sure how you've landed on the idea that Jesus would be More focused on the "golden rule" without reference to loving God, or trust in him.

Look AHZ, if you think it's better to generically promote the "golden rule" to a secular audience to try and help the culture reform, OK, fine.
go for it.
But don't pretend to speak to what Jesus REALLY wants, when his words are pretty clear & open to everyone who wants to see.
That He NEVER separated love of God from love to mankind, And never minimized salvation & eternal life... in favor of not offending or better reaching the non-religious with good advice.

Jesus has told Christian to spread the "Good News" not just the Good Advice.

I fee like man has elevated "do unto others "
You'd think John 3:16-18 would be the most important. With the greatest commandment(s) right behind it.

[AHZ]

I fee like man has elevated "do unto others "
You'd think John 3:16-18 would be the most important. With the greatest commandment(s) right behind it.

from the horse's mouth.

Matthew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.