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    Default Big Brother Growing

    So far some things are being uncovered thanks to FOIA requests by consumer groups-not MSM-which is dangerous in and of itself. Without transparency 'we the people' cannot be informed. There is evidence as explained in article of government redactions to cover themselves. So far they've not totally succeeded.

    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023...ration-n579799

    New FOIA docs: DHS claimed authority to regulate public discussions of COVID, "racial justice," Ukraine, and "irregular immigration"
    ED MORRISSEY 11:21 AM on September 22, 2023

    New FOIA docs: DHS claimed authority to regulate public discussions of COVID, "racial justice," Ukraine, and "irregular immigration"
    Remember the defunct “Disinformation Governance Board” at the Department of Homeland Security? The overt Big Brother agency eventually crumbled under public scrutiny, but not before the mainstream media tried desperately to keep it alive. NPR and other outlets insisted that DHS only meant to fight “misinformation” and that the DGB and its appointed head Nina Jankowicz had themselves fallen victim to “misinformation” about their purposes.


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    A new tranche of documents from a FOIA action by Americans for Prosperity Foundation sheds more light on DHS’ intent and actions. Jonathan Turley reports that the agency had granted itself very broad authority to regulate public comment, and not just on the COVID-19 pandemic. They claimed the power to regulate speech on just about every front, especially on topics that generated massive criticism of the Biden administration:


    New documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests show that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) argued that the agency could regulate speech related to “the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic and the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines, racial justice, U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the nature of U.S. support to Ukraine” as well as “irregular immigration.”


    Those subjects stretch across much of the “space” used for political speech in the last few years.


    That’s clearly no accident. The inclusion of Afghanistan on this list, which has been previously reported, is the clearest indicator that the DGB’s true purpose was to quash dissent and criticism of the Biden administration. The board itself didn’t get launched until after Biden’s disgraceful bug-out from Kabul, abandoning 14,000 Americans by the State Department’s account to Congress. What possible ’emergency’ situation would have justified regulating debate on that point almost a year later?


    The only ’emergency’ was Biden himself, which was also the case on all the other topics listed. This claim of authority flew in the face of the First Amendment as well as any claim to fealty to a free society. Rather than deal with that, DHS claimed that “malinformation” was a threat to our “cognitive infrastructure” and therefore public debate needed government gatekeeping:


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    Notably, within DHS, Jen Easterly, who heads the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, extended her agency’s mandate over critical infrastructure to include “our cognitive infrastructure.” The resulting censorship efforts included combating “malinformation” – described as information “based on fact, but used out of context to mislead, harm, or manipulate.”


    Try to mull over the irony of a claim about protecting “cognitive infrastructure” by … Joe Biden. We don’t even have a functional cognitive infrastructure in the Oval Office. Shouldn’t that be a more significant national-security concern?


    And now apply a claim about defending “cognitive infrastructure” to the topic of “racial justice” and the Orwellian term “irregular immigration.” It’s absolutely absurd. The DGB was created to impose the administration’s propaganda and to silence its critics, and the topic list makes that very clear.


    Not only that, but DHS clearly understood that their effort would get perceived as a Big Brother effort. They are still redacting information in these releases in a very telling manner, Turley points out:


    What is also troubling is the continued effort to conceal these censorship activities. Homeland redacted much of this information on a now defunct board under FOIA Exemption 7(E), which protects “techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations.” That claim is itself chilling.


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    Indeed, but also very telling. Citing law enforcement techniques and procedures makes clear that this was no public-rebuttal mechanism. DHS intended to use the DGB as a law-enforcement mechanism, turning debate and dissent into crimes to be prosecuted.


    Meanwhile, the Protection Racket Media continues to assert that the criticism of the DGB and Jankowicz’ appointment was based on “misinformation.” What does that say about the credibility of our mainstream media, which apparently couldn’t be bothered to file a FOIA demand to get these documents themselves? They aren’t interested in reporting; they’re interested in pushing their own critics out of the public square. And they’re partnering with Big Brother to accomplish it.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    So far some things are being uncovered thanks to FOIA requests by consumer groups-not MSM-which is dangerous in and of itself. Without transparency 'we the people' cannot be informed. There is evidence as explained in article of government redactions to cover themselves. So far they've not totally succeeded.

    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023...ration-n579799

    next they'll be claiming populism and morality as topics they can intervene on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    So far some things are being uncovered thanks to FOIA requests by consumer groups-not MSM-which is dangerous in and of itself. Without transparency 'we the people' cannot be informed. There is evidence as explained in article of government redactions to cover themselves. So far they've not totally succeeded.

    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2023...ration-n579799
    IMO, this started with Clinton more than anyone else. Or one could say LBJ. Obama ramped it up. Biden and his mafia have made very little pretense about their fascist antics. As with everything Dem, they overload their unconstitutional crap and by the time it gets to court, if it ever does, it's already accepted as fact and too late.

    One person alone can't fix this. It would take a sweep of the WH and Congress that in turn focused unwaveringly on undoing it to even make a dent.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    IMO, this started with Clinton more than anyone else. Or one could say LBJ. Obama ramped it up. Biden and his mafia have made very little pretense about their fascist antics. As with everything Dem, they overload their unconstitutional crap and by the time it gets to court, if it ever does, it's already accepted as fact and too late.

    One person alone can't fix this. It would take a sweep of the WH and Congress that in turn focused unwaveringly on undoing it to even make a dent.
    we can't be honest and pretend that GWBush and crew didn't ramp this up with the patriot act, the "war on terror" & "Free Speech Zones".
    The right's never taken the 1st amendment as seriously as it takes the 2nd.
    But the left used to love the 1st amendment... as long as it didn't apply to religion... just p0rn and the like, but since Obama & Trump the left has lost it freaking mind and can't even understand what freedom of speech is.


    But it would make it easier to clean up if we don't pretend that it's all someone else's fault. No one's hands are clean here.
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-22-2023 at 03:43 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Did the Bush administration imagine it would go this far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Did the Bush administration imagine it would go this far?
    I would say yes they did.
    If the freedom of speech is taken away
    then dumb and silent we may be led,
    like sheep to the slaughter.


    George Washington (1732-1799) First President of the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Did the Bush administration imagine it would go this far?
    Critics loudly warned that once you open that door there's no real line.
    the writers of constitution made the line hard for a reason.

    But most folks seemed to think "they'd never do that" or "they'll only use it against the 'bad guys'".
    As if tradition or common sense would stop politicians and LEOs from going too far.
    For whatever reason it's hard for people to really understand the fact that once you tell politicians, police or the military they have the legal authority to ignore one group's/person's rights to free speech, privacy, property, trials, no searches, no torture, etc.. that the precedent is SET.
    The only thing that needs to change is the name of the so-called "threat".

    Could be right wing 'insurrectionist' at the capitol, or protesters at a school board meeting or people at prayer at a mosque or church or people without a vaccine ID.
    Anyone threatening the peace or Law Breakers or "a SUSPECT" of any kind are subject too whatever is "legal".
    "for our safety" or "for democracy" notice it's never for "freedom" .
    (except when we're bombing people overseas of course)
    And Many people think constitutional freedom is TOO MUCH FREEDOM. It's not safe.
    Can't just walk around possibly getting grandma sick, Or owning a guns, Or using a gas stove, Or talking about things that the gov't or "science" doesn't agree with etc.





    (But frankly I think Chenney knew exactly what he was doing. He said, in so many ways, that he wanted the president to basically have unlimited powers)
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-22-2023 at 06:47 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    Default We are way past 1984. No politician will admit it.

    Last edited by icansayit; 09-22-2023 at 06:48 PM.
    I may be older than most. I may say things not everybody will like.
    But despite all of that. I will never lower myself to the level of Liars, Haters, Cheats, and Hypocrites.
    Philippians 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    IMO, this started with Clinton more than anyone else. Or one could say LBJ. Obama ramped it up. Biden and his mafia have made very little pretense about their fascist antics. As with everything Dem, they overload their unconstitutional crap and by the time it gets to court, if it ever does, it's already accepted as fact and too late.

    One person alone can't fix this. It would take a sweep of the WH and Congress that in turn focused unwaveringly on undoing it to even make a dent.
    That is why they play games and laugh at we American citizens. The have been inching in this tyrannical shat for at least 6 decades now. They the ffin treasonous lib/Dem party.. ffing scoundrels the entire lot of them. --Tyr
    .
    18 U.S. Code § 2381-Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

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    Default Totally agree Tyr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyr-Ziu Saxnot View Post
    That is why they play games and laugh at we American citizens. The have been inching in this tyrannical shat for at least 6 decades now. They the ffin treasonous lib/Dem party.. ffing scoundrels the entire lot of them. --Tyr
    .

    While Bubba Clinton played president with Monica. President Hillary was WHITE WATERING
    as Bubba sold the Chinese Our Missile tech, and gave away military secrets...Because they were

    THE CLINTON FRIENDS.
    I may be older than most. I may say things not everybody will like.
    But despite all of that. I will never lower myself to the level of Liars, Haters, Cheats, and Hypocrites.
    Philippians 4:13 I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Diamond View Post
    Did the Bush administration imagine it would go this far?
    IMO, probably not. On a good day, how easy is it to predict unintended consequences? What have we listened to for the past 50 years when warning of even the possibility of such? There's no slippery slope. That's just your right wing extremist, paranoid conspiracy theories again. Go back to hugging your guns and Bibles. It is only what it is as presented. The willing accomplice MSM ensures that is the public narrative and we have what we have.

    Thing is, can't prove them wrong until after the fact, then it's too late and all they say is whoops and move on like it never happened. Doesn't get near the coverage for the colossal. bureaucratic waste and f- up as it got when being pushed.

    The People are complicit. The usual cast of vocal crybabies that screeches for Big Brother to save them from whatever comes into play. I for one recall how unwaveringly uncompromising the leftwingnuts, Dems and MSM were right up GWB's ass to do something so they could feel safe enough to come out of their basements.

    We can't have our cake and eat it too. People need to think before asking government to help because the price of government help is paid in freedoms.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    IMO, probably not. On a good day, how easy is it to predict unintended consequences? What have we listened to for the past 50 years when warning of even the possibility of such? There's no slippery slope. That's just your right wing extremist, paranoid conspiracy theories again. Go back to hugging your guns and Bibles. It is only what it is as presented. The willing accomplice MSM ensures that is the public narrative and we have what we have.

    Thing is, can't prove them wrong until after the fact, then it's too late and all they say is whoops and move on like it never happened. Doesn't get near the coverage for the colossal. bureaucratic waste and f- up as it got when being pushed.

    The People are complicit. The usual cast of vocal crybabies that screeches for Big Brother to save them from whatever comes into play. I for one recall how unwaveringly uncompromising the leftwingnuts, Dems and MSM were right up GWB's ass to do something so they could feel safe enough to come out of their basements.

    We can't have our cake and eat it too. People need to think before asking government to help because the price of government help is paid in freedoms.
    really?
    People keep pointing to left on this crap.
    If we took a poll here today how many on this board would repeal all of the "war on terror" powers the gov't has?
    Starting with the patriot act? DHS, TSA etc?

    Not sure how you can be so wrong Gunny. Or what news you were looking at the time.

    Personally I was yelling at the TV screen in anger as mostly Republicans and FOX news talking heads were cheering for the Patriot Act and all kinds of Orwellian actions. I remember the establishment liberals basically falling in line not wanting to be left off the band wagon. And the few others liberals who didn't join in, were shouted down by Republicans Shouting "SOFT ON TERRORIST!!""Do YOU want another 911!!!?".

    But mainly all the critics were labeled "unrealistic" or KOOKS or told things like "I love the Constitution BUT, the Constitution is not a suicide pack!".
    In Congress Ron Paul on the Right & Dennis Kucinich on the left were 2 of the main people that were against things like the
    patriot act, domestic spying, spying on places of worship, free speech limitations, watch list, taping all Americans phones, reading all Americans emails, "indefinite detention", torture, renditions, targeted killings of citizens.
    Gunny, it wasn't a slippery slope. It was over the cliff FROM THE GIT-GO. It was CLEARLY unconstitutional. And based on overhyped fears.
    Bush's lawyers wouldn't even say that crushing a child's testicles was legally out of bounds to get info from a terror "suspect".

    And There was never anything in the words "terrorism" or "terrorists" that defined the limits of it meaning or that anyone was excluded.
    Many civil liberties group on the left and the libertarian right pointed out the problems with the new laws & edicts from their inception. And then for years pointed out how they were being used on citizens from the start. With some of the lightest offenses being things like "terror watch list" being BLOATED with grandmas, veterans & the handicapped.
    They detailed in lawsuits and articles the misuse of the new legal tools in various ways against citizens. But they rarely got coverage and when they did it was... like today with vaccine deaths... not covered by "sources" that people who didn't want to hear it anyway would accept.
    And many just saw it as a bit of "unintended" overreach... but ultimately do not care and assume the loss of freedoms and the Bloated unconstitutional gov't power are the price of "keeping us safe".

    some like yourself even question if any freedoms were lost.
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-23-2023 at 11:38 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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    I understand why people wanted the post-9/11 laws and other means of dealing with terror. As both Rev and Gunny said/implied, over time it became obvious that much was 'over the cliff' reactionary means.

    Here's the real issue, imo. Mistakes, well meant or not are going to happen. WE do not have to let them stand. It's time that the American citizens stop just complaining and get more PTA like actions going-if the FBI wants to write down license plates-do the same and take pics/record them. Be ready to get arrested and go to court. Fight to overturn and regain our freedoms.

    I seriously believe that since the 1900s most laws pertaining to government law enforcement and tax collections/redistributions need to be rescinded. Do away with SSI, Medicaid/Medicare. Not all at once, but over as short of timeline possible.

    Government at it's best is the one with least impact on citizens lives. It should have the most impact on enemies-foreign and domestic. Protecting our borders.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    really?
    People keep pointing to left on this crap.
    If we took a poll here today how many on this board would repeal all of the "war on terror" powers the gov't has?
    Starting with the patriot act? DHS, TSA etc?

    Not sure how you can be so wrong Gunny. Or what news you were looking at the time.

    Personally I was yelling at the TV screen in anger as mostly Republicans and FOX news talking heads were cheering for the Patriot Act and all kinds of Orwellian actions. I remember the establishment liberals basically falling in line not wanting to be left off the band wagon. And the few others liberals who didn't join in, were shouted down by Republicans Shouting "SOFT ON TERRORIST!!""Do YOU want another 911!!!?".

    But mainly all the critics were labeled "unrealistic" or KOOKS or told things like "I love the Constitution BUT, the Constitution is not a suicide pack!".
    In Congress Ron Paul on the Right & Dennis Kucinich on the left were 2 of the main people that were against things like the
    patriot act, domestic spying, spying on places of worship, free speech limitations, watch list, taping all Americans phones, reading all Americans emails, "indefinite detention", torture, renditions, targeted killings of citizens.
    Gunny, it wasn't a slippery slope. It was over the cliff FROM THE GIT-GO. It was CLEARLY unconstitutional. And based on overhyped fears.
    And there was never anything in the words "terrorism" or terrorists that defined the limits of it meaning or that anyone was excluded.
    Many civil liberties group on the left and the libertarian right pointed out the problems with the new laws & edicts from their inception. And then for years pointed out how they were being used on citizens from the start. With some of the lightest offenses being things like "terror watch list" being BLOATED with grandmas, veterans & the handicapped.
    They detailed in lawsuits and articles the misuse of the new legal tools in various ways against citizens. But they rarely got coverage and when they did it was... like today with vaccine deaths... not covered by "sources" that people who didn't want to hear it anyway would accept.
    Context is key. I pointed to events immediately following the attacks.

    You are pointing to events that occurred following the Patriot Act being implemented. All the Monday morning quarterbacks came out with their buyer's remorse. The very same people crying for Big Brother to protect them wailed and gnashed teeth over the cure. Lose/lose for GWB.


    Not everyone's a paranoid conspiracy theorist, Rev. Not everyone believes the government can do no right. It is people like you in fact that think the Constitution is a suicide pact. You demand all it offers but cry about doing anything to protect it. Just like now, you're arguing with me on something we agree about for the simple reason that I disagree with it for different reasons than you.
    Last edited by Gunny; 09-23-2023 at 11:43 AM.
    “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” Edumnd Burke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    I understand why people wanted the post-9/11 laws and other means of dealing with terror. As both Rev and Gunny said/implied, over time it became obvious that much was 'over the cliff' reactionary means.
    I understand why people wanted the post-9/11 laws and other means of dealing with terror.
    What i never understood was people wanting to do it UNCONSTITUTIONALLY.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents.
    James Madison
    it's not just a "nice quote". Is the constitution the law of the land or just until we get afraid?
    Many Civil libertarians and Strict Constitutionalist saw it from the very beginning Kath. That's just the facts.
    But like with the vaccines, FEARS + gov't hype seems to really make the herd run away from the values they claim to have.
    And even turn on neighbors with the power of the state & Big Biz.

    But simply put there's NO TIME when we should ever drop our constitutional rights.
    Theres no such thing as months or years of a 'state of emergency'.
    2 weeks tops... maybe.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kathianne View Post
    Here's the real issue, imo. Mistakes, well meant or not are going to happen. WE do not have to let them stand. It's time that the American citizens stop just complaining and get more PTA like actions going-if the FBI wants to write down license plates-do the same and take pics/record them. Be ready to get arrested and go to court. Fight to overturn and regain our freedoms.

    I seriously believe that since the 1900s most laws pertaining to government law enforcement and tax collections/redistributions need to be rescinded. Do away with SSI, Medicaid/Medicare. Not all at once, but over as short of timeline possible.

    Government at it's best is the one with least impact on citizens lives. It should have the most impact on enemies-foreign and domestic. Protecting our borders.
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-23-2023 at 02:01 PM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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