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  1. #16
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    @Kathianne


    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    ....
    ... is every other priest with the same doctrinal issues and who calls the pope "false prophet"... in fact excommunicated?
    I've been trying to look for list of other Priest, Bishops, Nuns etc who've been called to trial for "Schism" or possible Excommunication.
    I'm not able to find good articles that don't focus on issues 75-1000+ years old.
    I'm guessing there probably are other bishops or archBishops in the 20th & 21th century that have gotten somewhat similar treatment as Vigaṇ. Maybe charged with different issues.
    But i'm not finding them.
    There was a blurb at this one site about a sect of nuns who were excommunicated, but other than that I'm mainly seeing near protestant reformation level issues mentioned when I use the term "Schism" that Vigaṇ is accused of.

    Are you aware of any others?
    Last edited by revelarts; 06-27-2024 at 05:52 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by revelarts View Post
    @Kathianne




    I've been trying to look for list of other Priest, Bishops, Nuns etc who've been called to trial for "Schism" or possible Excommunication.
    I'm not able to find good articles that don't focus on issues 75-1000+ years old.
    I'm guessing there probably are other bishops or archBishops in the 20th & 21th century that have gotten somewhat similar treatment as Vigaṇ. Maybe charged with different issues.
    But i'm not finding them.
    There was a blurb at this one site about a sect of nuns who were excommunicated, but other than that I'm mainly seeing near protestant reformation level issues mentioned when I use the term "Schism" that Vigaṇ is accused of.

    Are you aware of any others?
    While I'll read something on the Church if I cross paths with such, as I've said previously, the hierarchy of the Church holds little interest to me or import on my faith. It's historical and certainly the men in positions of power within it have done good and bad works throughout, much like men or women, ie. Humans in every endeavor.
    Last edited by Kathianne; 06-27-2024 at 11:11 AM.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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  4. #18
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    Just for @revelarts I've been watching for this:

    https://www.ncronline.org/vatican/va...icated-vatican

    Archbishop Vigaṇ found guilty of schism, excommunicated by VaticanVATICANVATICAN NEWS
    Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, then nuncio to the United States, congratulates then-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington at a gala dinner sponsored by the Pontifical Missions Societies in New York in May 2012. The archbishop has since said Cardinal McCarrick already was under sanctions at that time, including being banned from traveling and giving lectures. Oblate Fr. Andrew Small, center, director of the societies, said Vigano never tried to dissuade him from honoring the cardinal at the gala. (CNS/PM
    Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, then nuncio to the United States, congratulates then-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington at a gala dinner sponsored by the Pontifical Missions Societies in New York in May 2012. Vigano has been found guilty of schism and excommunicated, the Vatican announced July 5. (CNS/PMS/Michael Rogel)


    BY CHRISTOPHER WHITE
    Vatican Correspondent


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    cwhite@ncronline.org
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    July 5, 2024Share on FacebookShare on TwitterEmail to a friendPrint
    Italian Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigaṇ, the disgraced former papal nuncio to the United States who questioned the legitimacy of Pope Francis and the authority of the Second Vatican Council, has been found guilty of schism and excommunicated, the Vatican announced on July 5.


    "His public statements manifesting his refusal to recognize and submit to the Supreme Pontiff, his rejection of communion with the members of the Church subject to him, and of the legitimacy and magisterial authority of the Second Vatican Council are well known," stated a Vatican bulletin that announced the ruling.


    The decision of Vigaṇ's excommunication was widely expected following the archbishop's June 20 announcement that he had been charged with schism by the Dicastery for the Doctrine for the Faith and that he would not be cooperating with the Vatican penal process.


    At the time, Vigaṇ said he would not comply with the request to present himself in person to formally receive the accusation and evidence against him and said he considered the charges brought against him to be an "honor."


    The June 11 Vatican decree stated that if Vigaṇ remained unresponsive through June 28, he would be sentenced in absentia. The July 5 Vatican statement announcing the excommunication noted that the Congress of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith met on July 4 to conclude the penal process against Vigaṇ.


    The statement also noted that the archbishop was notified with news of his excommunication on July 5 and that the reversal of such a decision is reserved to the Apostolic See.


    The weighty decision by the Vatican to excommunicate Vigaṇ comes six years after he published an unprecedented 11-page letter in 2018 alleging a widespread Vatican cover-up of allegations against ex-Cardinal Theodore McCarrick and called on Francis to resign.


    Although many of his initial claims he alleged have been discredited, the Italian archbishop was lionized by some right-wing Catholics for his support of former U.S. President Donald Trump, opposition to the COVID-19 vaccines and spreading of Q-Anon conspiracy theories.


    While many mainstream Catholics have dismissed the former Vatican diplomat, he has continued to use his website and social media to promote his radicalized views, with his posts being shared by high-profile individuals such as Trump and being widely promoted within certain pockets of the U.S. Catholic Church.


    The rare excommunication of one of the church's own prelates is likely to put a number of U.S. bishops in an awkward position given that following his initial 2018 allegations against the pope, more than two dozen issued statements attesting to his credibility, including some of the current leadership of the U.S. bishops' conference.


    At the time of publication, Vigaṇ had yet to issue a statement in response to his excommunication. His last public posting on social media, published on the same date of the Vatican's statement on his excommunication, was a request for donations for his foundation in support of the "traditional training" of young seminarians.


    "The government is a child that has found their parents credit card, and spends knowing that they never have to reconcile the bill with their own money"-Shannon Churchill


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    If the freedom of speech is taken away
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    Seems a few other Clergy are also upset with the Pope on at least one of the same points as Vigaṇ.


    Pope Francis' claim ‘all religions are a path to God’ rebuked by clergy

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/p...th-to-god.html
    During a three-day visit to Singapore, Pope Francis declared that “all religions are a path to God,” sparking backlash among religious leaders in the U.S.
    The statement was made at an interreligious meeting with young people at a Catholic junior college shortly before his departure back to Rome.
    Departing from his prepared remarks, Francis spoke off the cuff, stating that different religions are like “different languages” to reach God.

    “If you start to fight, ‘my religion is more important than yours, mine is true and yours isn’t,’ where will that lead us?” he asked,” according to Crux Now. “There’s only one God, and each of us has a language to arrive at God. Some are Sheik, Muslim, Hindu, Christian, and they are different paths [to God].”

    Reacting to the pontiff's comments, Bishop Joseph Strickland, who oversaw the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tyler, Texas, until his dismissal by the Vatican last year, said in a post on X, "Please pray for Pope Francis to clearly state that Jesus Christ is the only Way. To deny this is to deny Him. If we deny Christ, He will deny us, He cannot deny Himself."
    Strickland was ousted for disagreeing with Francis on the issue of banning pro-abortion Catholic politicians from receiving communion and over the degree to which outreach to the LGBT community is acceptable in the Catholic Church. A petition created in defense of Strickland last year said he was ousted because he "publicly corrected several heterodox statements from Pope Francis.”

    Francis, referring to the universal nature of God, claimed, “Since God is God for all, then we are all children of God.”

    In Singapore, Catholics constitute about 3.5% of the population, with Christians at 19%, Buddhists at 31%, Muslims at 15% and significant Hindu and Sikh minorities.
    Francis also encouraged young people to engage in and sustain interfaith dialogue. “For interreligious dialogue among young people, it takes courage, because youth is the time of courage in our lives,” he said.

    Fr. Calvin Robinson, who recently moved from England to lead a church in western Michigan, also rebuked the pope's statement in a post on X: "This is a counter-scriptural statement from Pope Francis. The Scriptures teach us the opposite. The gate to [H]eaven is narrow.
    Robinson added, "In Christ’s own words: 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'"....


    from Vigaṇ's letter
    "...It is necessary for the Episcopate, the Clergy and the People of God to seriously ask themselves whether it is consistent with the profession of the Catholic Faith to passively witness the systematic destruction of the Church by its leaders, just as other subversives are destroying civil society. Globalism calls for ethnic substitution: Bergoglio promotes uncontrolled immigration and calls for the integration of cultures and religions. Globalism supports LGBTQ+ ideology: Bergoglio authorizes the blessing of same-sex couples and imposes on the faithful the acceptance of homosexualism, while covering up the scandals of his protégés and promoting them to the highest positions of responsibility. Globalism imposes the green agenda: Bergoglio worships the idol of the Pachamama, writes delirious encyclicals about the environment, supports the Agenda 2030, and attacks those who question the theory of man-made global warming. He goes beyond his role in matters that strictly pertain to science, but always and only in one direction: a direction that is diametrically opposed to what the Church has always taught. He has mandated the use of experimental gene serums, which caused very serious damage, death and sterility, calling them “an act of love,” in exchange for funding from pharmaceutical companies and philanthropic foundations. His total alignment with the Davos religion is scandalous. Wherever governments at the service of the World Economic Forum have introduced or extended abortion, promoted vice, legitimized homosexual unions or gender transition, encouraged euthanasia, and tolerated the persecution of Catholics, not a word has been spent in defense of the Faith or Morals that are threatened, ...
    ...In the face of the Dicastery’s accusations, I claim, as Successor of the Apostles, to be in full communion with the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church, with the Magisterium of the Roman Pontiffs, and with the uninterrupted doctrinal, moral, and liturgical Tradition which they have faithfully preserved.
    I repudiate the neomodernist errors inherent in the Second Vatican Council and in the so-called “post-conciliar magisterium,”
    in particular in matters of collegiality, ecumenism, religious freedom, the secularity of the State, and the liturgy.
    I repudiate, reject, and condemn the scandals, errors, and heresies of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who manifests an absolutely tyrannical management of power, exercised against the purpose that legitimizes Authority in the Church: an authority that is vicarious of that of Christ, and as such must obey Him alone. This separation of the Papacy from its legitimizing principle, which is Christ the High Priest, transforms the ministerium into a self-referential tyranny.
    No Catholic worthy of the name can be in communion with this “Bergoglian church,” because it acts in clear discontinuity and rupture with all the Popes of history and with the Church of Christ....

    ".
    etc etc
    Last edited by revelarts; 09-17-2024 at 09:46 AM.
    It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. The freeman of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entangled the question in precedents. James Madison
    Live as free people, yet without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but live at all times as servants of God.
    1 Peter 2:16

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