Religion's hypocrisy

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

How many thousands of years ago did your Creator create man and all that we know today? Several thousand, several hundred thousand?

I know it is difficult to question faith for believers, but how does one of such faith explain the discovery of a young boy's skeleton that has been scientifically dated to be over 1 million years old...The Turkana Boy. His discovery in 1984 has one largely unpublicized, especially in the Christian and Muslim world, as it throws fuel on the fires that debunk creationism, and supports evolution.

[Roopull]

Not all believers are creationists. In fact, I'd wager that creationists are a very vocal and very small minority.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Are you a believer? How do you square the million year old boy with the beginning, as God (Mohammad et al) started it? (drop the creationism if that is what bothers you about the discussion)

[Dilloduck]

How many thousands of years ago did your Creator create man and all that we know today? Several thousand, several hundred thousand?

I know it is difficult to question faith for believers, but how does one of such faith explain the discovery of a young boy's skeleton that has been scientifically dated to be over 1 million years old...The Turkana Boy. His discovery in 1984 has one largely unpublicized, especially in the Christian and Muslim world, as it throws fuel on the fires that debunk creationism, and supports evolution.

Personally? I don't feel a need to sweat the small stuff that is of no significance to the most important message of Christianity

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Thank you for your opinion....interesting. (I will leave your reply alone for now, and let other's respond)

[darin]

Better yet - how would you explain a mostly-very-closely Modern Human Skeleton being dated at 1.6 Million years?

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Of course, it's a fake.....because it is easier to question it's authenticity than to question faith, right?

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

I hope you read the sarcasm in my previous post.

[darin]

Of course, it's a fake.....because it is easier to question it's authenticity than to question faith, right?

Talk about Faith? Evolution requires HUGE - I mean TONS - Bushels - Over-and-beyond common-sense-amounts of Faith. Intelligent Design however, is MORE logical, and more evident.

[Hagbard Celine]

Better yet - how would you explain a mostly-very-closely Modern Human Skeleton being dated at 1.6 Million years?

If you would read the article, it's not a "mostly-very-closely Modern Human." A layman can look at the skull and easily gleam that information from it. It's either a homo ergaster or homo erectus--one of homo sapiens' evolutionary ancestors. I've often entertained the idea that some of you guys might be ergasters or erectuses, most definately neanderthals, but I happen to be a sapiens and my species emerged approximately 300,000 years ago, not one million years ago. That needed to be said. Carry on fellas!

[Hagbard Celine]

Talk about Faith? Evolution requires HUGE - I mean TONS - Bushels - Over-and-beyond common-sense-amounts of Faith. Intelligent Design however, is MORE logical, and more evident.

You can't bring logic into the equation when faith is required for even the initial entertainment of a hypothesis. Intelligent Design requires the "believer"--and I say "believer" because it's based on faith, not facts gleamed from the physical world--to even begin to accept the idea. Intelligent Design's foundational element is an all-powerful creator who no one has ever seen and who has never left any evidence that he/she even exists. How can you say this is more logical than the theory of evolution with a straight face?

[theHawk]

How many thousands of years ago did your Creator create man and all that we know today? Several thousand, several hundred thousand?

I know it is difficult to question faith for believers, but how does one of such faith explain the discovery of a young boy's skeleton that has been scientifically dated to be over 1 million years old...The Turkana Boy. His discovery in 1984 has one largely unpublicized, especially in the Christian and Muslim world, as it throws fuel on the fires that debunk creationism, and supports evolution.

When I die and meet my Creator I'll ask him. Untill then I really couldn't give a damn.

[darin]

If you would read the article, it's not a "mostly-very-closely Modern Human." A layman can look at the skull and easily gleam that information from it. It's either a homo ergaster or homo erectus--one of homo sapiens' evolutionary ancestors. I've often entertained the idea that some of you guys might be ergasters or erectuses, most definately neanderthals, but I happen to be a sapiens and my species emerged approximately 300,000 years ago, not one million years ago. That needed to be said. Carry on fellas!

But it is mostly-modern-human. Everytime somebody finds a varient from 'the norm' they wanna say it's some 'ape-man'. I've read that article, and articles explaining why people who wrote THAT article are wrong.

You can't bring logic into the equation when faith is required for even the initial entertainment of a hypothesis. Intelligent Design requires the "believer"--and I say "believer" because it's based on faith, not facts gleamed from the physical world--to even begin to accept the idea. Intelligent Design's foundational element is an all-powerful creator who no one has ever seen and who has never left any evidence that he/she even exists. How can you say this is more logical than the theory of evolution with a straight face?

Because Evolution requires a HUGE amount of faith. The 'opposite' of having creation started through somebody's will starts like this:

"Just by Chance....live evolved from non-life. We can't say how it happened, nor can we reproduce the phenominon, nor can we observe it happening around us...but we 'just got lucky' and chemicals decided to evolve into life..."

Wow.

That's illogical.

However.

"God created life..." Makes more sense on several levels. First, because I've experienced God. I know He's real. Second, because it's absurd to say life somehow 'happened by chance'.

[Gadget (fmr Marine)]

Talk about Faith? Evolution requires HUGE - I mean TONS - Bushels - Over-and-beyond common-sense-amounts of Faith. Intelligent Design however, is MORE logical, and more evident.

Your opinion is appreciated.....ID requires the ability to seperate science from the Biblical story of Genesis:

001:001 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

001:002 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

001:003 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

001:004 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

001:005 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

001:006 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

001:007 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

001:008 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

001:009 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

001:010 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

001:011 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Etc, etc.....

I personally like the stories from the native American Indians trying to explain their beginnings

Of a time long ago, these things are said…

The story tells the story of creation of the universe and traces the evolution of life of the Navajos (humans) through 4 underworlds to this present world, the 5th world. They came up through each world with the help of the gods, evolved and became human.

Before anything, there was the First World, which was red (some versions say black). It was inhabited by the Holy people and insects (the Air Spirit People). Because the Air Spirit People misbehaved and did immoral things, they were unwelcome wherever they went. So having nowhere to go, they circled upward and ascended thru a hole in the sky to the next higher world, the Second World.

This world was blue. In the Second World they encountered the Swallow People (birds) and for some time lived in harmony. The Air Spirit People once again did immoral things (they had affairs with the wives of some of the Swallow people) and once again, they were kicked out of this world. Again, they flew high in the sky and went thru a hole in the ceiling of the sky to the next world, the Third World.

The Third World was yellow and was inhabited by the Yellow Grasshopper People. Still, there was yet no people, plants or animals, mountains or waters. This world was flat and had yellow countryside. Again, the Air Spirit People lived in harmony for a while with the Grasshopper people. But soon they were up to their old habits, (having affairs, acting immorally). The Grasshopper people told them to leave, as they seemed to create disorder wherever they went. So the insect people took flight once again, but this time four Grasshopper people came with them.

Why is it that your story is correct, and their's is wrong?

[theHawk]

You can't bring logic into the equation when faith is required for even the initial entertainment of a hypothesis. Intelligent Design requires the "believer"--and I say "believer" because it's based on faith, not facts gleamed from the physical world--to even begin to accept the idea. Intelligent Design's foundational element is an all-powerful creator who no one has ever seen and who has never left any evidence that he/she even exists. How can you say this is more logical than the theory of evolution with a straight face?

Actually ID is based on facts from the physical world. It challenges the idea of random mutations (darwinian evolution) by showing that all living things, even the simplest single cell lifeforms, are made up of such complex individual components that it is mathmatically impossible for all these components to have sprung up all at the same time via random mutations. Because all of these components within a lifeform are needed for its survival, if just one happened to spring up it would be useless without the others.
So, quite the contrary, ID is based soley on scientific facts of this physical world. Its the conclusion that says it must be of "Intelligent Design", not the method.