Originally Posted by
Hagbard Celine
We send our troops in for every damn skirmish that pops up around the globe and we revere our troops like they're something more than blue collar government workers, which is what they are. I mean realisitically if you take away the overblown reverence that is attached to being a troop, that is what you are. You're a gun for hire for the government. I just don't buy into the "troop worship" that seems to pervade everyone's view of the military. And just who is it that physically ensures you have the right to feel that way without fear of getting your ass kicked?
I think the veterans of WWII deserved that reverence because they did save the planet from the Axis of Evil and the veterans of Vietnam and Korea deserve our respect because they were drafted. Actually the people of our nation deserve the same reverence because they didn't blanch at the thought of offending the enemy. They were tougher then. Must be the DDT.
But every military adventure since then seems to me to have been avoidable in the sense that none of them posed the threat of world domination and the soldiers involved volunteered for service. And yet, dead is still dead and heroic is still heroic. It's all about the scale.
It seems to me that the modern US government has used the military more as a means to advance its own political or economic agenda than as a defensive force for the nation's well being. First smart thing I've read in your post. Carry on.
For putting themselves in harms way the military deserves our respect, but the hero worship and unwavering, unreasonable defense that they get from their "supporters" makes me a little sick. Actually I think it's your concience getting to you. But, I could be wrong.
It seems like nothing military related can be questioned without some zealot bowing up to call you unpatriotic or anti-troop or some other moronic moniker. Actually you can question the hell out of the military. They will be more open than your average corporate exec. Of course sometimes the truth hurts. But at least when they tell you that you have no need to know, they are being honest and forthright.
These are usually the people who have a confederate and US flag flying on the back of their trucks simultaneously.
I posted this at my blog. I also posted it at dailykos. The original reference is to this blog is here and you can check dailykos under the user name PEGWINN2. It's not a perfect response to your specific post, but I think it gets the job done.
BT
I missed this one. But it was caught by Stephanie at debate policy. Essentially the dummies at Daily Kos have leaped on the bandwagon to slam the military based on a story in the Washington Post. To them I say Get Real...
For starters you need to understand that slamming the troops merely demonstrates that you are idiots in the mold of the nutjobs who spit on troops in the sixties. Then you need to look at your general attitude, summed up in the second link...
n00161's diary
This, of course, is a point I have brought up many times and the Milblogs when crazy then. You, the military, are the servants of the people. That is what you signed up for. We send you to war and we bring you home. We tell you when to wake up and when to go to bed. If you do not like that, GET OUT. But, that is the life you chose.
In reality we are not servants of the people. You, the people, get no say in hiring, firing, employing, disciplining, using, or abusing us. IN fact: You the people are in general inferior to those of us who wear or have worn a uniform in service to our country.
Yeah, that's right, you the people are generally inferior. After reading the links All I could think of was: These idiots are thinking of the Military specifically as if they were simply "those people"
Well...
Those people are physically superior. They are physically superior to the American (and I suspect Canadian) norm. Your average American citizen simply isn't physically fit enough to chase anyone a quarter of a mile and still have the energy reserves to subdue him. Your average Canadian citizen simply isn't physically fit enough to march with sixty to eighty (or more) pounds of gear in extreme climates for a mile let alone the standard of forty klicks and and still have the energy reserves to dig in and fight if needed.
The US Military folks are mentally superior. Your basic average citizen (of either nation) isn't trained or equipped to respond well to crisis. It requires a mental fortitude to not surrender to hardship that is lacking in most of the citizenry. The problem is that they are not trainable. It's fundamentally a lack of the needed will to dominate a situation.
Military folks are more adaptable. Mr or Mrs average American/Canadian doesn't adapt quickly or well. The adage "adapt or die" normally means that Mr./Mrs. Average will die. The public servants consistently adapt faster and more effectively. Failure to adapt is what lets the enemy win.
Those people are morally and ethically superior. Our CanAmerican citizens don't score high on morals or ethics in most cases. It's not that they are evil, it's that they get what mom or dad teaches them with a smattering of whatever they pick up here and there. "Those people" you tend to start with a higher set of values and then they receive additional and ongoing training.
On any given day of the week you pick a hundred average citizens and a hundred of "those people" and test em. You will find that they are physically fitter (the reason is not relevant), and they are mentally sharper. If you check the demographics on crime you will find that "those people" are about the same on minor crime such as traffic citations but far less on felonies. The demographic search should include courts martial as well.
You, the people, will argue that if you had the training then .... I agree that the training they get, and the application of it in daily life, and the continued (in many cases) application of it makes them in general better than the folks they serve.
Take physical fitness for example: I am forty-two and holding (till June anyway). I can still run over five miles and I am holding at my ideal weight. Check the demographic information on Americans and you will find that society is becoming fatter and more lethargic. So, it doesn't matter whether you give credit to genetics, or to training, I am still physically superior to most Americans.
The same applies to mental fitness. The average American isn't trained in critical observations skills (ala the cops), or rapid problem solving (ala the firemen and .mil), or immediate actions in emergencies (ala the EMT). That same training will allow me (as a retired military man) to observe, orient, decide, and take action faster and more effectively on my civil job than the untrained counterpart. Most of the folks who wash out of recruit training (.mil) or entry level academy (cops/emts) fail training because they are not mentally able to continuously deal with the stress of training. They are not accustomed to being held accountable without being allowed an excuse. They have grown up being conditioned that "it isn't really your fault" when they fail. IF you look at our current educational process there is less stress applied to the students than ever before. Perhaps it helps the learning environment, but it doesn't keep thier heads cool during an auto crash.
If we try to put it together I have an example to share: About three months ago a ford expedition t-boned a Saturn coupe as me and my wife were making a turn. She stopped our car and began dialing 911 as I ran to the car. He was bleeding from three places and was going into shock. Other citizens gathered around. I applied a tourniquet to his worst bleeder using a belt, I cut away his seat belt to improve his breathing and one of the non-panicking citizens helped me calm him (the victim) down. His leg was obviously broken and had we allowed him to move, it would have been worse for him. His screams were agitating those who were gawking. Within five and a half minutes of the call the EMS arrived. I exited stage right as the real professionals took over. I gave my name to a cop in case they wanted to talk later.
The point is that I believe my training in combat first aid (severe trauma), as well as the mental discipline imposed in the service, allowed us to help that guy. The other citizen who stepped up instead of being frozen? He was an Army reservist. The rest of the onlookers likely were not callous people, they were simply (for whatever reason) unable to perform.
Then we can look at ethics and morals. But, let me ask you (the people) this: What are your Core Values and can you articulate them? Any member of the services can. Because the services core values are imprinted on them and reinforced throughout the entire career. Again, it is training, and reinforcement of both positive and negative types.
Finally, I have to say that there are those wearing a uniform that don't deserve it. Approximately ten percent of any group does not deserve to be there. Demographics again. I was speaking of the faceless groups. Individually there are awesome citizens who are highly moral, mentally and physically fit and disciplined. But they are not the norm. There are fat, lazy, and dishonest Marines or Cops as well, but they are not the norm. What is the norm is that the civil leaders of both parties are corrupt and society is easily manipulated with bread and circuses.
Oh, and we are better educated than you (the people) as well. Don't take my word for it either. Look up the stats for number of folks who graduate HS and College and compare it to the US Military.
So, when you can honestly prove that I worked for you then you can run your mouth. Until then shut up and let your betters do what they need to do.
The Ghin Tzu Master
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